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Old 10-21-2013, 08:32 PM   #1201
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Andrew,
Why so much pod droop?
E
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Old 10-21-2013, 10:34 PM   #1202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Knapp View Post
2013 IIC 13.5 12th Scale TQ+Win
Traction Compound: Jack the Gripper
Front Traction: Inside 1/8" for ~ 3 min
Rear Traction: whole tire for ~15 min
Traction: High
Motor: Trinity Revtech Killshot RPM Stator
Spur Gear: CRC 80 tooth
Speed Control: Hobbywing 1s
Radio" Spektrum DX4
Car: CRC XTI (ran in transverse with solid XTI Chassis)
Body: CRC Black Art Audi R8C
Front Tires: CRC Magenta 1.60"
Rear Tires: CRC Blue 1.63"
Front Springs: .55 with 50000 lube on king pin (.400" kingpin length)
Side Springs: .50 just touching on rear pod
Center Spring: CRC Blue
Center Shock Oil: 30wt
Center Shock Position: stock position (all the way back)
Dampner Tubes: 50000 lube
Battery Position: Forward
Caster: 5 degree blocks with all 3 shims forward and graphite spacer under caster block
Camber: Zero
Toe Out: ~1
Long Arm with CRC Top Brace
Rear Pod Droop: ~6mm (ALOT)
Front width: 166.5mm
Rear width: 171.7mm
Ride height: 3mm front, center, and rear

you can find pictures of my car at: http://teamcrc.com/crc/modules.php?n...rticle&sid=184

if you have any questions just post them up!
Thanks for posting your setup Andrew.
I have a couple of questions. It seems to me that the front end setup is all about reducing front traction. .55 springs, 0 camber very little Caster, Brace on the front and Minimal Traction Compound. This all says to me you were trying to reduce steering. For front tires though you used Magenta, I've always found them to be maximum steering. If it was me, I probably would have left the front geometry alone and used harder front tires. I would of course be multiple laps behind. What am I Missing?

Just another quick question.
The new Blue compound rear tires. Where do they fit in the scheme of things. ?We're all used to the usual Yellow, Pink, Magenta rear tires.

Thanks again.
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Old 10-22-2013, 03:24 AM   #1203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Knapp View Post
2013 IIC 13.5 12th Scale TQ+Win
Traction Compound: Jack the Gripper
Front Traction: Inside 1/8" for ~ 3 min
Rear Traction: whole tire for ~15 min
Traction: High
Motor: Trinity Revtech Killshot RPM Stator
Spur Gear: CRC 80 tooth
Speed Control: Hobbywing 1s
Radio" Spektrum DX4
Car: CRC XTI (ran in transverse with solid XTI Chassis)
Body: CRC Black Art Audi R8C
Front Tires: CRC Magenta 1.60"
Rear Tires: CRC Blue 1.63"
Front Springs: .55 with 50000 lube on king pin (.400" kingpin length)
Side Springs: .50 just touching on rear pod
Center Spring: CRC Blue
Center Shock Oil: 30wt
Center Shock Position: stock position (all the way back)
Dampner Tubes: 50000 lube
Battery Position: Forward
Caster: 5 degree blocks with all 3 shims forward and graphite spacer under caster block
Camber: Zero
Toe Out: ~1
Long Arm with CRC Top Brace
Rear Pod Droop: ~6mm (ALOT)
Front width: 166.5mm
Rear width: 171.7mm
Ride height: 3mm front, center, and rear

you can find pictures of my car at: http://teamcrc.com/crc/modules.php?n...rticle&sid=184

if you have any questions just post them up!
Hi

roll out?...why not use a 76T spur on 13.5?... why have a 1/8" ball?
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Old 10-22-2013, 05:08 AM   #1204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricF View Post
Andrew,
Why so much pod droop?
E
"Why run so much pod droop?" That is a question I have been asked by so many people and it is one thing I love to run. I have had it on all of my 17.5 and 13.5 setups for a few years now.
I run a lot of pod droop because that allows the rest of my setup to work.
What I think pod droop does for me:
- allows the car to be smooth if there are any bumps in the track.
-when my car tries to tip over from center-off of the corner pod droop allows the rear tires to gain traction while the front tires are being lightened. So it takes away steering center off. Makes the front tires not dig in and loose speed. When I run pod droop it lets me make my car enter thw corner very aggresivley and then keep corner speed up by not letting the front tires dig and scrub Corner speed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by notsocrazybrit View Post
Thanks for posting your setup Andrew.
I have a couple of questions. It seems to me that the front end setup is all about reducing front traction. .55 springs, 0 camber very little Caster, Brace on the front and Minimal Traction Compound. This all says to me you were trying to reduce steering. For front tires though you used Magenta, I've always found them to be maximum steering. If it was me, I probably would have left the front geometry alone and used harder front tires. I would of course be multiple laps behind. What am I Missing?
Just another quick question
The new Blue compound rear tires. Where do they fit in the scheme of things. ?We're all used to the usual Yellow, Pink, Magenta rear tires.
Thanks again.
That's exactly right I am reducing front traction as much as possible! Most people look at my setup and think I'm crazy (frank calandra and Brian wynn) but it makes sense to me.
In spec 12th scale classes its all about corner speed.
.55 front springs help keep the front end flat so it does not dig into the track and lose corner speed.
Same thing with zero camber. I want my tires flat on the track to keep the car flat. Also helps the car not flip in the corner.
Long arm and brace also helps the front end not move and create unwanted traction.
I run the magenta fronts because after reducing all my front end traction in my setup I can then use the rest of my setup to make the car turn.
This is how I see my setup. Not saying I'm right but it seems to be working.
I take away all front traction.
Long arm with brace.
.55 front springs
5 caster with shims all the way forward
No droop in front springs
50000 lube on front springs.
Lots of pod droop.

Then since the front end of the car has almost no traction I make the rear of the car do all the steering by:
Putting 50000 lube in my dampber tubes.
50000 lube makes the car initiate the corner very aggresivly. So with the 50000 lube making the car enter the corner staying flat and reducing rear traction and making the car keep tons of corner speed and tons of rotation then the front end stays flat and pushes so the car keeps maximum corner speed without digging in
I like the blue tires it has tons of rear traction. And no tire wear. From my testing I see blue rear and magenta rear are close. Blue has more grip than magenta.
The green and pink are a alike but I think green rear is more free in the corner.

Quote:
Originally Posted by corally View Post
Hi

roll out?...why not use a 76T spur on 13.5?... why have a 1/8" ball?
I run the crc 80 with the 3/32 balls. And I really don't have a good answer for this. I saw everyone running 72 or 76 in 17.5 and 13.5. I guess I just like to be different haha
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Old 10-22-2013, 05:11 AM   #1205
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two really unusual things that I noticed about Andrew's posted setup were the very large amount of rear droop and the mega stiff 50,000 lube in the dampener tubes. I can't recall anybody else at the top level going that far out of the norm with their droop or rear dampening. Andrew, can you explain please what was the reason for and the effect of these two very unique setup choices?
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Old 10-22-2013, 07:21 AM   #1206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vafactor View Post
two really unusual things that I noticed about Andrew's posted setup were the very large amount of rear droop and the mega stiff 50,000 lube in the dampener tubes. I can't recall anybody else at the top level going that far out of the norm with their droop or rear dampening. Andrew, can you explain please what was the reason for and the effect of these two very unique setup choices?
Well when running any spec 12th scale class 17.5 or 13.5 I think the fastest car will be the one with the most corner speed and by using the 50000 and lots if droop combination I have been able to acheive maximum corner speed.

Things I like about 50000 lube:
1. On high traction when the car flys into the corner it makes the car rotate very fast.
-forces the car to rotate from the rear instead of using the front wheels to do all of the turning.
2. I always run 50000 in 17.5 and 13.5 even if its on low bite
-on low bite tracks the 50000 keeps the rear end flat.
At my home track Rapid Competition R/C Raceway in Wyoming, Michigan our floor was very bumpy when we first built the track and it was also low Bite.
- I know that softer dampner oil meant more rear traction and harder dampner oil meant less rear bite. I would normally run between 10000-30000 lube.
When I first tried 50000 lube I got a totally different feel. by keeping the rear flat I gained rotation in the corner. But I did lose some traction which is where droop becomes important

Rear pod droop:
I like to run a lot and I always have it helps the car handle any bumps on the track and also gives rear traction.
When the 50000 lube makes the car initiate the corner very aggresivly the pod droop helps the center and exit of the corner. When you hit the throttle center off the rear pod lifts up because of the droop gaining rear traction and losing front traction.
So the car initiates the corner then when under throttle it gains rear grip and the rear of the car drives itself out of the corner almost with the front just being pushed by the rear since the front end has very little bit with so much droop in the car.

That's what I think is going on with my setup and why I run droop and 50000.
Many people havr tried my setup and have gone back to what they know.
You have to drive it 110% and push the car as hard as it will go otherwise it will feel very aggressive and hard to drive.

Hope this helps!
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Old 10-22-2013, 08:13 AM   #1207
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Hmmm...Maybe I'll set one car up more traditional one one more like your setup Andrew, and see what happens. I've literally drove one practice day with my 1/12 and although it went really well (ok, I chunked some tires, blew some bearings and beat up a body) the most frustrating thing was how much speed I was loosing in the corners as the car bogged down. But, I never had issues with the rear coming out around the front with the factory setup so perhaps I can stiffen the sides some to keep corner speed up and work on the front to keep it from being too aggressive mid-corner.

Yes, your setup is way off all the others out there, but clearly it's working.
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Old 10-22-2013, 08:31 AM   #1208
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I have tried 30000 in the past and did not like the reduction in rear traction but now that our club track is a bunch of 180 corners that might be better. Going to to try that setup next time out. Thanks Andrew.

Also what are your thoughts on the front dampening? I see you are using heavy oil up there. how do you find the gunk build up after a race?
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Old 10-22-2013, 08:37 AM   #1209
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I have tried 30000 in the past and did not like the reduction in rear traction but now that our club track is a bunch of 180 corners that might be better. Going to to try that setup next time out. Thanks Andrew.

Also what are your thoughts on the front dampening? I see you are using heavy oil up there. how do you find the gunk build up after a race?
Stiffer lube makes the rear loose which is why I run rear pod droop to gain rear traction back.

I do not like front dampning it makes the front end aggressive. And I run 50000 on front kingpin to reduce the front roll to keep it flat. I usually rebuild my front end and re lube the king pins every run at big races. It does have some carpet fuzz and tire dust build up but I don't think it affects anything since the front suspension barely moves
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Old 10-22-2013, 09:10 AM   #1210
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Andrew,
Thanks for clarifying and giving some insight as to what works for you. Obviously it works for you and it gives me encouragement on going outside the setup box to try some unconventional things in my setup.
Thanks,
E
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Old 10-22-2013, 03:35 PM   #1211
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Thanks Andrew.
Lots of stuff to try out now.
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Old 10-22-2013, 03:56 PM   #1212
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Andrew,
I have a Alter Ego car on the way after a long hiatus from 1/12.
Should I seal the edges or is the new cf good to go?

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Old 10-22-2013, 04:01 PM   #1213
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I really appreciate the in-depth perspective. Thank you AK. See you in Omaha?
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Old 10-22-2013, 04:09 PM   #1214
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On the spur gear issue, always run the biggest spur/pinion combo that will fit in the car. Having the motor right up against the axle FREAKIN SUX! Trust me, it does. Not just on CRC cars, any pan car.
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Old 10-22-2013, 04:44 PM   #1215
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Especially bad on outdoor asphalt when you get a rock stuck between the axle and the motor...I've sheared a few axles that way in the past.
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