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Old 01-26-2015, 02:06 PM   #1621
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The upper and lower pod plates on the slider conversion are different than the WC car as well. Essentially you would need all the graphite pieces that are on the WC car to make it work. The front end screws are also different. They are an 8-32 button head instead of taper that hold the front end down. By the time you get it all lined up it would probably be cheaper to just wait for a kit.
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Old 01-26-2015, 02:09 PM   #1622
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The upper and lower pod plates on the slider conversion are different than the WC car as well. Essentially you would need all the graphite pieces that are on the WC car to make it work. The front end screws are also different. They are an 8-32 button head instead of taper that hold the front end down. By the time you get it all lined up it would probably be cheaper to just wait for a kit.
WC is using Altered Ego top and bottom pod plates, correct?
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Old 01-26-2015, 02:12 PM   #1623
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WC is using Altered Ego top and bottom pod plates, correct?
That is correct
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Old 01-26-2015, 04:41 PM   #1624
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Just ordered all the parts to convert my Xi to an XTi-Wc. Price wise, it's about a wash versus ordering the whole new kit. The XTi-Wc kit is $200.00. I already had the slider conversion, so I'm into all the new graphite parts for around $100.00. I figure my current Xi with slider conversion is a $120.00 roller at best on the used market.
Not sure if you could use the old Xi-style aluminum pod parts with the new Altered Ego carbon pod parts, but if you must convert to the slider aluminum pod parts then the upgrade becomes very expensive versus buying the whole new chassis.

If you are running the standard in-line XTi you need:
CRC3357 WC main chassis
CRC3358 front end u plate
CRC32113 transverse battery tweak plate
CRC3224 Altered Ego bottom pod plate
CRC3225 Altered Ego top pod plate
The above is right at $100 shipped from Stormer.
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Old 01-26-2015, 05:36 PM   #1625
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Slapmaster (Brian) - Did you experience the center chassis rubbing the carpet during the WC? I heard that some drivers experienced that and had to use stiffer center springs to stop the chassis from rubbing the carpet.
It is not so much aero squish as it is accelerational crush on the center spring. This is the big reason I went to the #3263 top plate. You won't notice this "squat" in stock or super stock, you simply do not have enough Hp to bottom the chassis out. There are a couple of ways to cure it; go up a spring or two or add a mm or 2 or a tall ball stud at the rear of the shock.

By going up to a green, purple or black, you get more on-throttle steering as well as more corner entry steering while reducing the back of the chassis/front of the pod from getting gooped up. Getting gooped up is not such a bad thing unless the car takes a hefty 20* hook out of the hole! Then you need to make a change.

I ran a box stock WC in mod last Sat. The only things that would be changed was the addition of the 2.5 camber gain spacer and a green center spring. I used double blue/ blue at 40.2/41.8. By the main, it was one of the best mod cars I have driven. I started the night with a purple center spring and the bottom of the chassis was clean, but it over rotated entering this one corner from a fairly high speed. I reduced to a green spring and cured the over rotation, but the chassis started to goop up a little. I added 1mm under the rear ball stud for the main. I could drive it even harder and by doing so, it gooped the bottom up a little but had no effect on handling. That being said, I will likely change from the 50 front springs to 45's and go back to the purple or black to see if I can get a tick more "on" steering without getting that over rotation. But it was a pretty fun car to drive!

By the way, one of our clubbies ran spec stripe front/blu rear in mod and fell in love. So if you think about it, we should have 3 great front tires to choose from: stripes, 2bl and blu.

I've raced stripes in stock at our club. They're pretty good. We'll likely race out the rest of our season on them. There's a good chance we'll vote them in as the tire spec next season for stock.
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Old 01-26-2015, 05:37 PM   #1626
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very nice
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Old 01-26-2015, 07:36 PM   #1627
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Dat Brian B knows his stuff...

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Old 01-26-2015, 08:41 PM   #1628
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It is not so much aero squish as it is accelerational crush on the center spring. This is the big reason I went to the #3263 top plate. You won't notice this "squat" in stock or super stock, you simply do not have enough Hp to bottom the chassis out. There are a couple of ways to cure it; go up a spring or two or add a mm or 2 or a tall ball stud at the rear of the shock.

By going up to a green, purple or black, you get more on-throttle steering as well as more corner entry steering while reducing the back of the chassis/front of the pod from getting gooped up. Getting gooped up is not such a bad thing unless the car takes a hefty 20* hook out of the hole! Then you need to make a change.

I ran a box stock WC in mod last Sat. The only things that would be changed was the addition of the 2.5 camber gain spacer and a green center spring. I used double blue/ blue at 40.2/41.8. By the main, it was one of the best mod cars I have driven. I started the night with a purple center spring and the bottom of the chassis was clean, but it over rotated entering this one corner from a fairly high speed. I reduced to a green spring and cured the over rotation, but the chassis started to goop up a little. I added 1mm under the rear ball stud for the main. I could drive it even harder and by doing so, it gooped the bottom up a little but had no effect on handling. That being said, I will likely change from the 50 front springs to 45's and go back to the purple or black to see if I can get a tick more "on" steering without getting that over rotation. But it was a pretty fun car to drive!

By the way, one of our clubbies ran spec stripe front/blu rear in mod and fell in love. So if you think about it, we should have 3 great front tires to choose from: stripes, 2bl and blu.

I've raced stripes in stock at our club. They're pretty good. We'll likely race out the rest of our season on them. There's a good chance we'll vote them in as the tire spec next season for stock.
Great answer, Brian. I got more than I bargained for on that one. I have been trying the WC car in mod trim a couple weekends and have had some problems. I don't recall if I tried the green spring because I felt over-rotation with the red. I didn't have any double blue front tires at that time so maybe I should go back to that now. I have some electronic issues with it as well. I lack experience with mod motors in these cars as I haven't really run this since 2007. I have flattened out the shock to make it comfortable on the track I attend.

Regarding tires, I am hoping that the big organizations don't adopt a spec tire in any class of 1/12. I think the striped rubber is our old faithful purple or at least from the purple family. I think they pick up too much debris and marbles from the track to make the 8 minutes comfortably. I don't feel as good about WGT and I think that tire is part of it.
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Old 01-26-2015, 08:51 PM   #1629
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It is not so much aero squish as it is accelerational crush on the center spring. This is the big reason I went to the #3263 top plate. You won't notice this "squat" in stock or super stock, you simply do not have enough Hp to bottom the chassis out. There are a couple of ways to cure it; go up a spring or two or add a mm or 2 or a tall ball stud at the rear of the shock.
..........
Slapmaster6000, I am confused with this paragraph. Are you using drag brake in your speedo? I always thought that the motor and rear tires gripping the carpet on acceleration would lift the front of the car. Additionally, I thought that braking would put more weight to the front of the car through the center shock and cause the chassis to squat. Do I have that reversed?
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Old 01-26-2015, 11:19 PM   #1630
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IMO: purple tires are garbage. I hate them. I can not find a use for them. IMO.

Stripes: on the other hand, are brilliant. They are lilacs. And not to be rude, but please do not knock them until you bolt a set on. If you do not like the idea, fine, I get that. But they will get more people interested in driving 12th scale. Right now, people that are looking at 12th scale are too intimidated because we have a bag of Skittle colors for tire selection. No one likes to purchase the wrong set of tires and then get to the track only to get smoked by the guy that knows what he's doing. Stripes offer a wide set up window. Drivers that are just learning will be able to drive the car with out it being a twitchy POS. The issue that stripes have right at this very moment is the selection of wheels. You can get them on CRC and BSR. I am not sure who else is doing them. Until the 12th scale market warms up to the spec tire idea, manufacturers are going to be slow to get on board. A catch 22. I was reluctant too on the spec tire thing. Then I tried them. I have a new opinion now.

I run about 15-20% drag brake on my Orca VX1. I ran as much as 23% on my HW. I use drag brake to for additional off power steering or when I look like a goof overshooting corners.

For a couple of decades I subscribed to the idea that the front of the pod lifted under acceleration. I visualized the the motor pinion wanting to crawl up the spur. If you look at that, it's easy to see and think that. There's a little more to it. You are accelerating a car so fast with a force point coming from the axle centerline which happens to be above the pivot ball at the front of the pod. That acceleration force at the axle is greater then the effect of the pinion wanting to crawl up the spur, therefore the pod collapses under hard acceleration. This why the car, with too soft of a center spring, will bottom out and veer into a corner with relatively good grip track.

Now comes the fun stuff. Start adding stiffer center springs. Stiffer center springs add more "on steering" by putting more weight on the front tires (and keeps the pod from collapsing). In one test, I kept installing stiffer center spring until I actually traction rolled the car on corner exit. Not entering, where most traction rolls occur, but on exit with the power on. I would not have believed it had I not done it.

So of course adding stiffer center springs will greatly impact off power steering too. It will immediately transfer weight to the front and can cause all kinds of steering issues. Possible remedies include: front springs, caster, camber, camber gain, compound, diameter, battery placement, toe out, king pin droop and of course drag brake. I am sure I left some other stuff out too.

I would like to drop in a little clause right about now: for every 5 things I try, 1 works. That means lots of things I try fail, or didn't work. It takes time, lots of time.

I can not stress enough to build up a WC bone stock with either a 2.0 or 2.5 camber spacer. As much as you think you have some cool idea that you stole from the stone age, don't. Build it stock, run it.

If you don't have access to the double blue front right now, see if you can get a set of front stripes! Jaco had a lilac, it was awesome!

As for electronics, there are 1000's of ways to set up your package. I choose the mild motor with aggressive esc approach. Meaning, I pull the mod rotor and drop a spec high torque rotor into my 4.0, time it at 0* and then control all the rip and top end with the esc. Wheelies are cool, for clown cars. I haven't won any National titles in mod, but I'm not slow either. I have a fan the esc. Everything in the car comes out about 115-120 degrees and its usually the motor that's the coolest.

This reads a little sarcastic. Don't take that way. Think of it as edgy reading.
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Old 01-26-2015, 11:31 PM   #1631
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I wonder if the pod changes angle at different points of acceleration. I recall my EV10 many times pulling the shaft right off of the piston under hard acceleration until the new big bore shock came out.
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Old 01-26-2015, 11:49 PM   #1632
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I haven't won any National titles in mod, but I'm not slow either.
But, I remember an IIC where you won just about everything else...
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Old 01-26-2015, 11:58 PM   #1633
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But, I remember an IIC where you won just about everything else...
That was one hell of a year...very impressive drives!
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Old 01-27-2015, 12:36 AM   #1634
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finally - a well respected, open minded, and knowledgable guy has tried out running spec 1/12th scale tires and reported his findings. THANK YOU Brian for doing us all that favor and for sharing your observations and wisdom. Looks like I'll need to order me up a couple of sets of Lilac tires so that I can try and "prove" Brian's findings to our local club.......in hopes of convincing the guys that running spec 1/12th tires could simplify and grow our 17.5 1/12th scale class.
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Old 01-27-2015, 05:21 AM   #1635
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IMO: purple tires are garbage. I hate them. I can not find a use for them. IMO.

Stripes: on the other hand, are brilliant. They are lilacs. And not to be rude, but please do not knock them until you bolt a set on. If you do not like the idea, fine, I get that. But they will get more people interested in driving 12th scale. Right now, people that are looking at 12th scale are too intimidated because we have a bag of Skittle colors for tire selection. No one likes to purchase the wrong set of tires and then get to the track only to get smoked by the guy that knows what he's doing. Stripes offer a wide set up window. Drivers that are just learning will be able to drive the car with out it being a twitchy POS. The issue that stripes have right at this very moment is the selection of wheels. You can get them on CRC and BSR. I am not sure who else is doing them. Until the 12th scale market warms up to the spec tire idea, manufacturers are going to be slow to get on board. A catch 22. I was reluctant too on the spec tire thing. Then I tried them. I have a new opinion now.

I run about 15-20% drag brake on my Orca VX1. I ran as much as 23% on my HW. I use drag brake to for additional off power steering or when I look like a goof overshooting corners.

For a couple of decades I subscribed to the idea that the front of the pod lifted under acceleration. I visualized the the motor pinion wanting to crawl up the spur. If you look at that, it's easy to see and think that. There's a little more to it. You are accelerating a car so fast with a force point coming from the axle centerline which happens to be above the pivot ball at the front of the pod. That acceleration force at the axle is greater then the effect of the pinion wanting to crawl up the spur, therefore the pod collapses under hard acceleration. This why the car, with too soft of a center spring, will bottom out and veer into a corner with relatively good grip track.

Now comes the fun stuff. Start adding stiffer center springs. Stiffer center springs add more "on steering" by putting more weight on the front tires (and keeps the pod from collapsing). In one test, I kept installing stiffer center spring until I actually traction rolled the car on corner exit. Not entering, where most traction rolls occur, but on exit with the power on. I would not have believed it had I not done it.

So of course adding stiffer center springs will greatly impact off power steering too. It will immediately transfer weight to the front and can cause all kinds of steering issues. Possible remedies include: front springs, caster, camber, camber gain, compound, diameter, battery placement, toe out, king pin droop and of course drag brake. I am sure I left some other stuff out too.

I would like to drop in a little clause right about now: for every 5 things I try, 1 works. That means lots of things I try fail, or didn't work. It takes time, lots of time.

I can not stress enough to build up a WC bone stock with either a 2.0 or 2.5 camber spacer. As much as you think you have some cool idea that you stole from the stone age, don't. Build it stock, run it.

If you don't have access to the double blue front right now, see if you can get a set of front stripes! Jaco had a lilac, it was awesome!

As for electronics, there are 1000's of ways to set up your package. I choose the mild motor with aggressive esc approach. Meaning, I pull the mod rotor and drop a spec high torque rotor into my 4.0, time it at 0* and then control all the rip and top end with the esc. Wheelies are cool, for clown cars. I haven't won any National titles in mod, but I'm not slow either. I have a fan the esc. Everything in the car comes out about 115-120 degrees and its usually the motor that's the coolest.

This reads a little sarcastic. Don't take that way. Think of it as edgy reading.
No Brian, you are not talking down to the masses. I don't take any personal offense to your information or method of communication. Too bad we didn't get any of this from our great pro mod drivers from 1995 on to 2009. The USA would have better performance at the WC level.

Regarding the spec tires, it is just me. I like the green/blue rears and the blue/double blue fronts so well I don't want to give them up.
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