Legalise Software *Fixed* Timing?
#46
Tech Master
iTrader: (5)
The newcomer is not losing because he cannot adjust the timing on his motor. You keep saying this is to help out the newbie and it will have no effect on their performance. You would now make it so the newbie would have to buy equipment so he can adjust the settings of his ESC at the track along with learning about it. You are not making it easier and cheaper for the newbie. You are giving them yet another reason and excuse to not practice driving more or focusing on setting up there car.
#47
IMO...
the majority of the people replying here have raced for say, at least 6 months to a year plus, 75% probably more as an average - but who am I to know
(I have raced for 16+ and still counting).
WE know how this hobby works. The newcomer doesnt need timing IMO.
The newcomer needs a simple platform of racing to digest and grow into the complexity of timing, faster classes etc etc later.
Whats fun about wreckin' racin'?????
the majority of the people replying here have raced for say, at least 6 months to a year plus, 75% probably more as an average - but who am I to know
(I have raced for 16+ and still counting).
WE know how this hobby works. The newcomer doesnt need timing IMO.
The newcomer needs a simple platform of racing to digest and grow into the complexity of timing, faster classes etc etc later.
Whats fun about wreckin' racin'?????
The beginner races are intended to race beginner classes such as run what you bring, silver can, or a very low speed brushless setup ie 21.5/17.5.
The faster classes are intermediate and experienced racers.
We run dynamic timing/open ESC at our club and we offer 2/3 classes (if you count mini) aimed at beginners. Once they have 18 months plus experience they have no issues with dynamic timing.
#48
Dan whilst I agree with you, you are pushing shit up hill in this thread mate.
The earlier ESCs already had fixed adjustable timing just as you are suggesting but they were banned when blinky ESCs came in.
The vast majority of US guys seem to hate dynamic timing. Any sentence with both words 'ESC' and 'timing' will be met with negativity.
Clearly some of the reponses indicate they haven't read your suggestion in detail but just noticed the words ESC and timing.
The earlier ESCs already had fixed adjustable timing just as you are suggesting but they were banned when blinky ESCs came in.
The vast majority of US guys seem to hate dynamic timing. Any sentence with both words 'ESC' and 'timing' will be met with negativity.
Clearly some of the reponses indicate they haven't read your suggestion in detail but just noticed the words ESC and timing.
I'm still waiting for my answer on the timing of I would crank the timing in my motor and the esc. So whats the point? I'm listening for sure but at some point temps come into play. So If I run 50 degrees on my motor and 50 degrees in my speedo don't I technically have to gear down to keep it cooler? So that puts me back at just running full timing one way or another right?
The newcomer is not losing because he cannot adjust the timing on his motor. You keep saying this is to help out the newbie and it will have no effect on their performance. You would now make it so the newbie would have to buy equipment so he can adjust the settings of his ESC at the track along with learning about it. You are not making it easier and cheaper for the newbie. You are giving them yet another reason and excuse to not practice driving more or focusing on setting up there car.
#49
Tech Elite
iTrader: (8)
Correct. 100 degrees would not be useful, but 50 degrees could be. If every motor had adjustments up to around 50 degrees we wouldn't be having this conversation, because I wouldn't have bothered to suggest the idea. Not every motor does though. The Speed Passion motors for instance have 0-10 degrees adjustment before you have to buy another optional timing board, which may or may not be legal depending on the sanctioning body you are running under. The LRP motors have quite a lot of timing standard, and some people have even commented to me that they'd like to be able to reduce that, if you could retard the timing through the ESC you could do that too. The idea is to even out the characteristics of the different motors caused by different levels of timing, by giving everyone access to the same range.
I guess with the temps I run my motor I don't need one more gear or one more degree of timing so why have a way to dial more in.
Last edited by NolanP; 09-10-2012 at 05:16 PM.
#50
I know that the Trinity motor D3.5 comes with 30 degrees built in. Revtech has timing, Thunder Power 50, Reedy tons......You guys arent just getting beat by the D3.5? Reedy Sonic then? I know that the Speed Passion isn't that far off of those two either with the stock board. I guess I'm just clueless cause I run the Trinity D3.5 stuff.
I guess with the temps I run my motor I don't need one more gear or one more degree of timing so why have a way to dial more in.
I guess with the temps I run my motor I don't need one more gear or one more degree of timing so why have a way to dial more in.
#51
Tech Elite
iTrader: (8)
You wouldn't need/want the option I'm suggesting. Not everyone has a RevTech or a D3.5 though, that's all. Some of us are sick of playing with plug-ins and timing boards when there is a so much easier way. Others don't have any options at all, the motor has the timing it has – most of those people eventually end up buying a new motor. Bishop's point earlier was that eventually all the motors would be like the D3.5 and the RevTech, so just wait and it will happen. Except I'm not convinced that the entry level motors like the HobbyWing will go that way, I'd say it's cheaper to keep making them the way they are. If we had ESC timing then we could probably be saving $10 every time we buy a new motor.
So even if we stay in the Speed Passion boat cause they are a great esc for the price. So I go out and spend 90 dollars USD on my motor. D3.5. Then I go out and spend $30 on a Citrix Inspire that doesn't have timing. Thats $120. Thats a really low budget for racing 17.5 or 21.5 for that matter. Most will get the 90 dollar motor and the 130 dollar gt 2.1. $210 bucks is still cheap for a killer racing combo and your not gonna need to do anything other than twist the back of the motor either way.
If you want a budget class force a class with the citrix Inspire and the Sportsman 2 motor. $60 bucks.
#52
Tech Elite
iTrader: (2)
When I say beginner I'm not really talking about the rank amateur, rather I'm talking about the driver the rank amateur becomes after about 6-7 months racing. It's at about that point they start thinking about how to improve their competitiveness with the answer usually being buy better stuff.
Originally Posted by Radio Active
The simplicity for newbies, whose first class is blinky, is one of my primary reasons for suggesting the idea.
Originally Posted by Radio Active
Not everyone has a RevTech or a D3.5 though
Originally Posted by Radio Active
Some of us are sick of playing with plug-ins and timing boards when there is a so much easier way.
So how is unplugging your speed control from the receiver, plugging it into a hot wire, lcd/led box and possibly into a computer easier than undoing 3 screws and turning the end bell slightly? Often this method can be done trackside without having to plug in anything else into the car be it the esc or motor.
If people with "B" grade equipment want to keep up with the fast guys there's two ways of going about it.
Work on your race craft skills such as car setup and practice as much as you can to get the best performance out of your equipment.
Or, go out and buy the same equipment that the fast guys use, this is not limited to the motor alone, the fastest motor that is the "flavour of the month" is not going to win you races if you don't have the skill, batteries, tires, and car to back it up.
Such is the nature of racing, even within the constraints of any class or type of racing there will someone that is faster than you who will push their equipment to the edge.
Originally Posted by Radio Active
I agree the current 21.5 blinky format we have in Aus is incredibly popular, I don't want to change it.
The definition of change -
verb
make or become different:
noun
an act or process through which something becomes different:
Also, for those that want to add their comments here about how boosted is better than blinky, there's plenty of other threads that are more relevant in that topic.
This thread is related to allowing the function of esc timing or not.
Cheers
Rob.
#53
Tech Elite
iTrader: (10)
Really guys this thread about blinky again... I think stock/Blinky is really pain in the a$$ if you don't wanna deal with it grow some webos and just run open MOD if you get beat you know it's fair and square their is no special program or software it's all about driving skills... But really running stock is more expensive than MOD tryin to get a slow motor to go fast just don't make sence....
#54
Again, why do you want to change it, even though you stated that you don't? The reason behind it's popular uptake, even by some of the people in faster classes is because of it's simplicity.
The definition of change -
verb
make or become different:
noun
an act or process through which something becomes different:
The definition of change -
verb
make or become different:
noun
an act or process through which something becomes different:
It would not be any different in the spec of the motors, the speed of the motors or performance on track. Therefore it would not become different.
And the newest newbies are the ones who buy the motor for the class they are told is the beginner class. They look around and they find the cheapest 21.5 thinking they are all the same. They race, they learn, they get better. 6 months later when they've gotten better it is these same people who discover that their motor doesn't have the ability to be timed the same as those others are using. Then they are in the market for a new motor.
You don't necessarily need a program box or PC to change timing, many ESCs have settings that you go through a menu on, it would be easy to have timing as one of these settings on existing ESCs with a firmware update.
This is about saving people money without changing the class.
Also, from an Australian perspective, no one has ever voted for the specs we have for blinky, we're slaves to the ROAR specifications.
#56
Tech Fanatic
iTrader: (2)
not so true
MY car runs a one cell 21.5 speed passion so it hasnt got as much go as others but with my son driving it a different proposition.
Im working on my driving and consistency first and when i need more speed ill look for something else.
BUT TILL THEN MORE TRACK TIME..MORE PRACTISE
As for timing on speedys its not going to fly nor is it necesary.
when a fixed timing Hobbywing can run with a adjustable timing Revtech than all is good in the world....
PS>>IV JUST EXPERIENCED ALL THIS THRU THE EYE OF A NEWBY as clubs we need to be clear and concise to them to ensure they get the right stuff but if you want to make it clearer publish it in the results
then everybody knows whos running what...maybee the manufacturers will notice it as well
#57
Tech Elite
iTrader: (5)
I just think it's hard enough to convince some newer or even older racers to actually use the proper blinky firmwares, others can't even figure out how to flash or switch them into blinky mode.
So yet another firmware will just complicate it even more, it's not being helped that most ESC don't come in blinky mode, then you get a handful of people who just think winding down the 'boost' settings should make them legal, but the reality is many are 'still' pushing some timing to the motor even run like that.
Blinky as it stands is ok, but the makers really need to make some ESC easier to put into the right modes, or ship them in blinky mode, anyone that uses boost will likely know what they will need to do, so rather than coming up with yet another ESC mode, just wait for the motors to come around, and be sure stuff comes ready to use in blinky.
So yet another firmware will just complicate it even more, it's not being helped that most ESC don't come in blinky mode, then you get a handful of people who just think winding down the 'boost' settings should make them legal, but the reality is many are 'still' pushing some timing to the motor even run like that.
Blinky as it stands is ok, but the makers really need to make some ESC easier to put into the right modes, or ship them in blinky mode, anyone that uses boost will likely know what they will need to do, so rather than coming up with yet another ESC mode, just wait for the motors to come around, and be sure stuff comes ready to use in blinky.
#58
Tech Elite
iTrader: (2)
Really guys this thread about blinky again... I think stock/Blinky is really pain in the a$$ if you don't wanna deal with it grow some webos and just run open MOD if you get beat you know it's fair and square their is no special program or software it's all about driving skills... But really running stock is more expensive than MOD tryin to get a slow motor to go fast just don't make sence....
The discussion within this thread is about whether to, or not allow *fixed* timing on the esc within blinky mode.
If you feel a need to shed tears trying to argue about mod/boost etc is better than everything else, then there is ample threads available to gain sympathy from others that share your view point.
Originally Posted by Bishop
I just think it's hard enough to convince some newer or even older racers to actually use the proper blinky firmwares, others can't even figure out how to flash or switch them into blinky mode.
So yet another firmware will just complicate it even more, it's not being helped that most ESC don't come in blinky mode, then you get a handful of people who just think winding down the 'boost' settings should make them legal, but the reality is many are 'still' pushing some timing to the motor even run like that.
So yet another firmware will just complicate it even more, it's not being helped that most ESC don't come in blinky mode, then you get a handful of people who just think winding down the 'boost' settings should make them legal, but the reality is many are 'still' pushing some timing to the motor even run like that.
Originally Posted by Radio Active
You don't necessarily need a program box or PC to change timing, many ESCs have settings that you go through a menu on, it would be easy to have timing as one of these settings on existing ESCs with a firmware update.
In the hobbywing example all it mentions is that 0 timing is an optional firmware, and that you HAVE to use the LCD box & PC to update the firmware to 0 timing. It can not be done through the menu system of the esc.
http://www.teamtekin.com/manuals/RSManual.pdf
http://www.hobbywing.com/uploadfiles.../HW-09-XST.pdf
http://www.racing-cars.com/images/GT2_LPF_Manual.pdf
Originally Posted by Radio Active
Also, from an Australian perspective, no one has ever voted for the specs we have for blinky, we're slaves to the ROAR specifications.
This also includes batteries & motors that can only be used in sanctioned events within Australia that appear on the approval lists, which one of them is the ROAR listings.
You're basing your argument that we are slaves to the ROAR rules, yet you want ROAR to take on board the changes you are proposing?
Please excuse my skepticism here but you do seem to be contradicting yourself often in this discussion.
Cheers
Rob.
Last edited by ta04evah; 09-11-2012 at 04:01 AM. Reason: Description error & amendment