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Old 09-17-2013, 08:20 AM   #331
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Would be nice if we used the same battery connectors so I could hook up my eagle tree to really see whats going on with the watt meter, rpm, and temp to compare our two setups as we mostly have the same bits and set up.

Want to make a bullet to dean or EC5 conversion cable? Then we can put this 6 cell thing to rest

I'm also wondering if going to two small 4 cell packs (3500's) would help you? I would try the soft packs. Bet it would provide less stress on the batteries. Packs usually did not come out as puffy in my boats in this configuration.

Of course I'm sure this would just let you push the car harder to get the mythical 20 sec lap.
Even with the eagle tree the data would not be equal unless both the cars are driven in the same way for the same time.
Personally if 6s was more efficient your motor and ESC temps should be much cooler then mine shouldn't they? Considering the extra gearing and the more aggressive driving of my car and the "less effecient" 4s shouldn't their be a huge difference? After a race how much different are our temps?
Not saying that 6s isn't more efficient just how much more efficient is it?
Would it be worth someone switching from a 2650 4s setup to buy a 1700 motor and switch to 3s batteries? Dunno not knocking 6s just don't think it's some magical setup that would allow someone to drive for a 12min mains on a hot day.

Before this season I thought about running 2 small 4s packs in parallel.
Actually Russ last year ran 2050kv motor on 5s with 2 small 5s packs with good results. I had 2 thunderpower 4s 3300 lipos I was going to try but scratched it and went with 2 cells in series. Mainly because i hate all the extra wiring involved with wired packs. The trakpowers are working out very well, I really put them to the test this weekend. I only have 1 pair so I was either draining them or charging them for the entire race day and they remained perfect. Cell balance and resistance stayed low and no swelling. If they remain like that for the next 2 races then it would be enough for me to stick with them for next season.

Lol 20 second lap is just not possible atleast for me.
Desoto Jr is one of the best GT drivers and his best lap was 21.53 on a prepped track. My goal was breaking into the 21's which I did with a 21.82
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Old 09-17-2013, 08:43 AM   #332
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How about we do this.

We will set a 7 minute timer and ill trail close behind you for the entire time so our number of laps, lap times and driving will be almost identical.
Once we finish we will temp our cars and check lipos for power use.

Should give a real world difference between the setups and show temps and power usage
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Old 09-17-2013, 08:58 AM   #333
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Also just remembered on top of taller gearing my max rpm is also slightly higher then yours by about 5% lol
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Old 09-17-2013, 09:29 AM   #334
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Would be nice if we used the same battery connectors so I could hook up my eagle tree to really see whats going on with the watt meter, rpm, and temp to compare our two setups as we mostly have the same bits and set up.

Want to make a bullet to dean or EC5 conversion cable? Then we can put this 6 cell thing to rest

I'm also wondering if going to two small 4 cell packs (3500's) would help you? I would try the soft packs. Bet it would provide less stress on the batteries. Packs usually did not come out as puffy in my boats in this configuration.

Of course I'm sure this would just let you push the car harder to get the mythical 20 sec lap.
Do it I would love to see the results of that test. My track has a 4s limit on 1/8 scale so all my cars are running 2s or 2x2s that way I don't have to keep diff. Packs for all my vehicles.
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Old 09-17-2013, 10:22 AM   #335
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Yea, then we get into ESC setups, breaks, toque curves, power draw from extra fans, etc. If you have higher RPM's in theory I should have more torque?

I suspect your right the overall change may be in the + or - 5% range?

Alternatively I just let you drive my car for 5min then your car for the same 5min in two weeks after our last race & there are no concerns over breaking anything and we compare packs. I can change my gearing to match yours.

or

We talk Bill into running a 6 cell set up in one of his cars as you two run pretty close.
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Old 09-17-2013, 10:33 AM   #336
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Great stuff here guys. I just wanted to chime in and say that I have not had good luck with GensAce batteries. They ended up costing more because they did not last long. Approx. 3-4 weeks. I did not misuse them. I love SMC batteries and Pro-match would be my second choice. I have not tried Trackpower. I am happy to hear that you are having good results with them...
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Old 09-17-2013, 11:20 AM   #337
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Great stuff here guys. I just wanted to chime in and say that I have not had good luck with GensAce batteries. They ended up costing more because they did not last long. Approx. 3-4 weeks. I did not misuse them. I love SMC batteries and Pro-match would be my second choice. I have not tried Trackpower. I am happy to hear that you are having good results with them...
Wow I keep hearing here and in the gtv forum about you guys frying packs! I'm running two pair of cheapo onyx 35c 5000mah and using them in everything. My 8t truggy, slash, tc4, gtv2e and my cobra all season without a failure. Are you balance charging all the time? I balance charge 1c at home and 2c at the track and run off road with the same packs what am I doing right? Or have I just been lucky?
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Old 09-17-2013, 12:07 PM   #338
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What is your guys reason for running 6s? to Run 12-15minute races?
Dave, Before the season you contacted me about the track and the car.
you told me you were interested in a 6s setup because you wanted to be able to run longer 12-15 minute races or something. I told you that I did not believe it was possible to keep temps down to run such a long race regardless of system or setup. Now that you've ran all season is there any way possible to run a race twice as long as we do with a 6s setup? please let us know.

I've said from day one that the ESC and Lipos may benefit from higher voltage setups but the motor will always run hot because there is no way to spin a 1/8 motor at 40K rpms on a 120 degree track and expect it to run cool.

I don't know what involved with running the eagle tree. If all that it takes is making some connections for my lipos then go ahead and make them and we can try it out. if it requires me to start pulling my electronics all apart to bridge them through the data logger then im not interested because im simply to lazy for that shit

Personally I think my way is better and easier. ill pace behind you for how ever long and then we can check temps and what ever else u want to as soon as we pull them off. what does esc settings have to do with anything? all my power curves are linear(stock) only difference from stock is my brakes are at 100% my current limiter is at 70% and I have a few degrees of drag brake.
Only reason I mentioned RPM and gearing is because these are known to make the motor run hotter. I don't believe any esc settings would drastically effect temps besides boost which I don't run.
We have the same motor fans but I have a smaller rear fan I installed and I run a esc fan. Im personally not very interested in power usage, max rpm or whatever else the data logger collects. I haven't rebuilt my front or rear diffs in the year I have had the car what makes u think I would be interested in my freakin electronics data? only data im curious to know is what temps are our cars at if we run the same which we don't need a eagle tree for just a temp gun. im could careless about power usage as long as I have enough to finish a 7 minute race and have the cells at a good cut off range, im not interested in hauling an extra 3/4 lb weight of lipo that I cant use anyways
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Old 09-18-2013, 04:53 PM   #339
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What is your guys reason for running 6s? to Run 12-15minute races?
Dave, Before the season you contacted me about the track and the car.
you told me you were interested in a 6s setup because you wanted to be able to run longer 12-15 minute races or something. I told you that I did not believe it was possible to keep temps down to run such a long race regardless of system or setup. Now that you've ran all season is there any way possible to run a race twice as long as we do with a 6s setup? please let us know.

I've said from day one that the ESC and Lipos may benefit from higher voltage setups but the motor will always run hot because there is no way to spin a 1/8 motor at 40K rpms on a 120 degree track and expect it to run cool.

I don't know what involved with running the eagle tree. If all that it takes is making some connections for my lipos then go ahead and make them and we can try it out. if it requires me to start pulling my electronics all apart to bridge them through the data logger then im not interested because im simply to lazy for that shit

Personally I think my way is better and easier. ill pace behind you for how ever long and then we can check temps and what ever else u want to as soon as we pull them off. what does esc settings have to do with anything? all my power curves are linear(stock) only difference from stock is my brakes are at 100% my current limiter is at 70% and I have a few degrees of drag brake.
Only reason I mentioned RPM and gearing is because these are known to make the motor run hotter. I don't believe any esc settings would drastically effect temps besides boost which I don't run.
We have the same motor fans but I have a smaller rear fan I installed and I run a esc fan. Im personally not very interested in power usage, max rpm or whatever else the data logger collects. I haven't rebuilt my front or rear diffs in the year I have had the car what makes u think I would be interested in my freakin electronics data? only data im curious to know is what temps are our cars at if we run the same which we don't need a eagle tree for just a temp gun. im could careless about power usage as long as I have enough to finish a 7 minute race and have the cells at a good cut off range, im not interested in hauling an extra 3/4 lb weight of lipo that I cant use anyways
To answer your first question. Yes running at my pace & setup I could run a 12 min race no problem. I have done 15 min before at practice but not all were race pace. Thats why I'm curious how much more power your using over me for that extra 3+ sec a lap?

I suspect ESC settings may use more then you give it credit for. The breaks heat things up quick. You run yours at 100% and sometimes lock up your wheels, until last week I had mine at 40% and no drag break. I also had the torque dialed way down (until Bill messed with it) and I run a 19 tooth pinion. I noticed after taking my external BEC out that my ESC temps have gone up 10 degrees or so (I still don't have a fan on it). I suspect if I went to a more aggressive setup (and could drive as well as you) our power usage would be more in line?

I also wonder how much our different tire diameters play into this. Running the smaller GRP's vs the larger Sweeps I've been swapping between this season? If I cared enough I suppose one could figure that out with one of those online calculators It wouldn't surprise me if the smaller tires required a tooth bigger pinion?

Bottom line until I become a better driver I don't really have to worry about all this theory stuff that you fast guys do for an extra 1/10 of a second But I would like to know if 6 cells is really any better or if its just theory? Sounds like I need to suck up the cost of a motor and find out for myself.
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Old 09-18-2013, 06:08 PM   #340
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To answer your first question. Yes running at my pace & setup I could run a 12 min race no problem. I have done 15 min before at practice but not all were race pace. Thats why I'm curious how much more power your using over me for that extra 3+ sec a lap?

I suspect ESC settings may use more then you give it credit for. The breaks heat things up quick. You run yours at 100% and sometimes lock up your wheels, until last week I had mine at 40% and no drag break. I also had the torque dialed way down (until Bill messed with it) and I run a 19 tooth pinion. I noticed after taking my external BEC out that my ESC temps have gone up 10 degrees or so (I still don't have a fan on it). I suspect if I went to a more aggressive setup (and could drive as well as you) our power usage would be more in line?

I also wonder how much our different tire diameters play into this. Running the smaller GRP's vs the larger Sweeps I've been swapping between this season? If I cared enough I suppose one could figure that out with one of those online calculators It wouldn't surprise me if the smaller tires required a tooth bigger pinion?

Bottom line until I become a better driver I don't really have to worry about all this theory stuff that you fast guys do for an extra 1/10 of a second But I would like to know if 6 cells is really any better or if its just theory? Sounds like I need to suck up the cost of a motor and find out for myself.
LOL Dave, you cant compare going out practicing to a race.
I can drain my whole pack practicing and pull my car off the track at 130 but soon as I race my temps shoot up 50 degrees and my run time shoots down.
Gary runs 4s too and he can sit out there and practice for a ungodly amount of time lol

During the hot days of summer your motor was at the same temps as mine I don't see how you think you would be able to "race" for an extra 7 minutes and not over heat. Im sorry but I just don't see it. one day after a race you told me your motor was at 210?

Last year when I started out my lap times were 3 seconds slower on average but I use to do a few practice laps and run the entire race with a cheap 5000 mah battery and never had a problem completing a race.
this year that battery wouldn't last me 12-13 laps lol
it kind of shows you the difference those seconds make.

yea a 40% brake vs a 100% brake would make a difference lol never thought you would have it so low so id assume difference would be minimal if you were at 70, 80 or 90 percent. I leave braking all the way up and dial down on my remote and adjust as needed. when traction is high I can dial it way down but if its low I need to turn it up.

yea the GRP's require a larger pinion because of the roll out is shorter on the GRPS. With Sweeps/Alphas my car freakin hauls ass down the straight lol
Id honestly have to gear a tooth or 2 down for them. that's kind of why our cars are pretty much even going down the straight even though im geared taller.

Dave told you since day one, skip all the small BS with setups and shit lol. worried about how much power is used is even more useless. as you get faster it will all change anyways. better to spend your time driving =)
just find a decent setup and run with it. our track conditions vary to much to try and keep the car dialed even if you find some magic sweet spot it might work one day but the next day your cars can be all over the place lol

On the last race day bring the eagle tree if your really that curious and if its not to much work to connect it we can try it out just to for the hell of it.

These are the only ways I think a 12+ minute race would ever work
Night time driving, we use to parking lot race at a homedepot all night. 5000 packs would last us 20 minutes and our motors wouldn't pass 130-140 at most.
or limiting the speed of the cars to 3s on high KV motors. last year lesh and I would run 3s for fun and besides our long ass straight away the rest of the track was fun with the 3s motor. top speed would be around 45 but heat stayed wayyy downnn.
or race on 50 degree days lol

Heres a better question, If I switched to a 1700 on 6s do you think id have any chance in hell making a 15 minute race? lol
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Old 10-03-2013, 10:03 AM   #341
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Got quiet in here
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Old 10-04-2013, 07:10 AM   #342
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Got quiet in here
Never was a very busy forum lol
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Old 10-04-2013, 08:01 AM   #343
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If you put a fish on the table the cat will show up.
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Old 10-04-2013, 08:11 AM   #344
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If you put a fish on the table the cat will show up.
LoL
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Old 10-04-2013, 09:23 AM   #345
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Unfortunately our season here in MI/OH is done & some of us are dusting off other stuff to race indoors this winter.
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