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Old 08-10-2014, 10:21 PM   #1861
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i have seen folks measure droop with shocks and sway bars attached and some not attached, which one the best way and also i know yall notice the tcxx book never gave a droop measurement on arms i just cant get my tcxx planted enuff i want to feel it when im driving and right now i dont
I do droop with shocks off and chassis completely flat. Also make sure you use a caliper to make sure you're shock lengths are equal. what's you're full setup and track conditions?
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Old 08-11-2014, 02:42 PM   #1862
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i have seen folks measure droop with shocks and sway bars attached and some not attached, which one the best way and also i know yall notice the tcxx book never gave a droop measurement on arms i just cant get my tcxx planted enuff i want to feel it when im driving and right now i dont
I make my final droop measurement with the car race ready. Shocks and roll-bars installed. But the shocks and roll-bars have all been measured and adjusted for L to R balance already.

I usually start with 1.5-2mm ORH in front and 2-3mm ORH in the rear. So if your ride height is 5mm you will be able to pick up the chassis to 7mm before the droop screw bottoms out on the chassis. I measure this with a common ride height gauge.

6mm on the droop gauge is a good start F and R running Jacos at ~5mm ride height. Larger or smaller tires will require different settings. As will higher or lower ride height settings.

Post your complete set-up and we'll be able to help you out a lot more. I've been working on a high-bite setup for ThunderRC. It's getting better each race weekend. I qualified 2nd in 17.5 TC last weekend and in the A-Main the leader and I put 1.5 laps on 3rd place. This was in a field of 24 fast drivers. I was the only HB in the building! lol
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Old 08-11-2014, 04:08 PM   #1863
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I hear everyone about the few people that run the HB car. In our winter series im the only HB TCXX car out there. The standard tracks we race on are tight carpet with very low grip. I hit 4 trophy races per season where the grip comes in pretty good but I still struggle with the car lacking rear grip in long sweeping corners and having a lot of initial turn in everywhere else. I see on many of the set up sheets on line that many drivers use different springs front to rear either 1-2 rates stiffer fronts than rears but I have read that its preferred to run the same springs front - back. ive tried four completely different set ups with very little change to the feel of the car. For low grip tight tracks how much does the 2.25mm chassis improve overall traction? im currently using the std chassis and need to buy a replacement so I would like to spend that money wisely on a chassis that with really improve this car. When grip is low what should be my starting point? springs? oil? roll center?
Any response is greatly appreciated.
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Old 08-11-2014, 04:41 PM   #1864
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Originally Posted by ShaunMac View Post
I've been working on a high-bite setup for ThunderRC. It's getting better each race weekend. I qualified 2nd in 17.5 TC last weekend and in the A-Main the leader and I put 1.5 laps on 3rd place. This was in a field of 24 fast drivers. I was the only HB in the building! lol
Shaun - this for Dirla's place in Nashville?? I'm get interested in see it, since I'll be heading down there for the USVTA race in September

I'll be using my TCXX in USVTA

thanks!
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Old 08-11-2014, 04:48 PM   #1865
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Originally Posted by endurohero View Post
I hear everyone about the few people that run the HB car. In our winter series im the only HB TCXX car out there. The standard tracks we race on are tight carpet with very low grip. I hit 4 trophy races per season where the grip comes in pretty good but I still struggle with the car lacking rear grip in long sweeping corners and having a lot of initial turn in everywhere else. I see on many of the set up sheets on line that many drivers use different springs front to rear either 1-2 rates stiffer fronts than rears but I have read that its preferred to run the same springs front - back. ive tried four completely different set ups with very little change to the feel of the car. For low grip tight tracks how much does the 2.25mm chassis improve overall traction? im currently using the std chassis and need to buy a replacement so I would like to spend that money wisely on a chassis that with really improve this car. When grip is low what should be my starting point? springs? oil? roll center?
Any response is greatly appreciated.
I find the Hudy quick reference setup table is a good starting place to work out what to change and in what order:

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p53/94eg/HudySetup.jpg

I tend to go softer or remove roll bars at the end I want more grip. Then look to softer springs and oil. I find roll centre changes on the TCXX to be good for fine tuning setup or dealing with grip roll. It may be backwards to theory, I'm not sure, but I've always found reducing droop at the front increases understeer and calms down the initial turn in. Ackerman changes can also be good to adjust steering characteristics. More Ackerman will calm the steering, where less Ackerman will make the steering more aggressive.

Alexander hagberg has a great app on iTunes and Google play that explains setup better than anywhere I've ever seen.

https://itunes.apple.com/gb/app/setup-station-by-alexander/id818349695?mt=8
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Old 08-11-2014, 05:07 PM   #1866
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Thank you for the response. I have printed the set up table and will start working with that.
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Old 08-11-2014, 05:22 PM   #1867
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Originally Posted by endurohero View Post
I hear everyone about the few people that run the HB car. In our winter series im the only HB TCXX car out there. The standard tracks we race on are tight carpet with very low grip. I hit 4 trophy races per season where the grip comes in pretty good but I still struggle with the car lacking rear grip in long sweeping corners and having a lot of initial turn in everywhere else. I see on many of the set up sheets on line that many drivers use different springs front to rear either 1-2 rates stiffer fronts than rears but I have read that its preferred to run the same springs front - back. ive tried four completely different set ups with very little change to the feel of the car. For low grip tight tracks how much does the 2.25mm chassis improve overall traction? im currently using the std chassis and need to buy a replacement so I would like to spend that money wisely on a chassis that with really improve this car. When grip is low what should be my starting point? springs? oil? roll center?
Any response is greatly appreciated.
In low bite running 17.5 TC I change a few things.
-1.5mm F & R rollcenters(shims under pivot blocks)
-short camber links F & R (this really gives the car a lot of lateral grip)
-lighter diff fluid ~ 1,000cst
-more front arm sweep. I usually run 2.0 block FF and split 1.0 FR. I run zero sweep in high bite. 1.0 FF & 1.0 FR
-more droop 3mm ORH F & R

I'm running a 2.25mm ArrowmaxRC chassis with a 2.0mm topdeck raised 2mm and only attached by the 8 bulkhead screws. It doesn't touch the layshaft. I run this in both super low-bite AND high-bite conditions. TCX motor mount. Yokomo pink/blue springs. I have tried a lot of springs and these just work better on carpet. I tend to always run 450 - 500cst oil on carpet. I always use drilled caps for zero rebound too.

The 2.25mm chassis will help generate a lot more grip and give you a larger window for setup. I would highly recommend it. The Arrowmax chassis won't break the bank either at only $49. Plus, they sell topdecks in 1.75, 2.0, 2.25 and 2.5mm thicknesses at half the price of the HB ones. Their floating servo mount is nice too. Now that I think of it, all the carbon on my car is Arrowmax! And No, I'm not sponsored by Arrowmax. lol
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Old 08-11-2014, 05:33 PM   #1868
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Shaun - this for Dirla's place in Nashville?? I'm get interested in see it, since I'll be heading down there for the USVTA race in September

I'll be using my TCXX in USVTA

thanks!
Yes it's Dirla's joint.

I've only run VTA once and it was on a tight, low-bite track. I can tell you that I ended up with a really weird set-up to deal with the wider tires, added weight and slower speeds. I remember running 1.0 degree of toe in the rear to get it to rotate! I also remember having to change steering blocks to fit the wider tires. I think I ran XRAY blocks to keep the wheels from rubbing. I could have run shims, but I didn't want to make the car any wider. Not much of my 17.5 setup remained when I ran VTA. lol

What kind of track conditions do you have locally?
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Old 08-11-2014, 05:42 PM   #1869
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WOW!! thanks for the reply. I have been curious about the shims under the pivot blocks. I currently have 1.0 in the rear and 1.5 - 1.0 in the front. Im also using the short upper link set up. The chassis has been the biggest question mark. I cant get arrowmax products in Canada at the moment but I can get another brand 2.25 chassis and top deck. I have those springs in my spares bin and will put them back in when I get the chassis sorted. I haven't changed the arm sweep. Honestly, I didn't understand what was being meant by "sweep" until I looked into the blocks and what is different between them all. With the 450cst-500cst oil do you use the same 3x 1.1 pistons?
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Old 08-11-2014, 05:49 PM   #1870
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Quote:
Originally Posted by endurohero View Post
I hear everyone about the few people that run the HB car. In our winter series im the only HB TCXX car out there. The standard tracks we race on are tight carpet with very low grip. I hit 4 trophy races per season where the grip comes in pretty good but I still struggle with the car lacking rear grip in long sweeping corners and having a lot of initial turn in everywhere else. I see on many of the set up sheets on line that many drivers use different springs front to rear either 1-2 rates stiffer fronts than rears but I have read that its preferred to run the same springs front - back. ive tried four completely different set ups with very little change to the feel of the car. For low grip tight tracks how much does the 2.25mm chassis improve overall traction? im currently using the std chassis and need to buy a replacement so I would like to spend that money wisely on a chassis that with really improve this car. When grip is low what should be my starting point? springs? oil? roll center?
Any response is greatly appreciated.
One big thing I did was buy a floating servo mount and cut the tab off of my chassis. It was dragging in the sweeper and the car was losing rear grip. After that, it was planted.
Also, try the Arrowmax Aluminum chassis.... You might just gain .2 a lap.
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Old 08-11-2014, 06:11 PM   #1871
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WOW!! thanks for the reply. I have been curious about the shims under the pivot blocks. I currently have 1.0 in the rear and 1.5 - 1.0 in the front. Im also using the short upper link set up. The chassis has been the biggest question mark. I cant get arrowmax products in Canada at the moment but I can get another brand 2.25 chassis and top deck. I have those springs in my spares bin and will put them back in when I get the chassis sorted. I haven't changed the arm sweep. Honestly, I didn't understand what was being meant by "sweep" until I looked into the blocks and what is different between them all. With the 450cst-500cst oil do you use the same 3x 1.1 pistons?
Yes, same pistons. Also, if the grip is really low don't be afraid to try 2.0mm roll-centers. I use arm sweep in low-grip to gain steering. It really shows mid-corner and off when using more sweep. Helps in tight 180's.

The split pivot blocks also help. I didn't think they would, but they allow for slightly more flex and create more grip. Not a total game changer. Just another piece of the setup puzzle.

Good luck.
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Old 08-11-2014, 06:40 PM   #1872
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Shaun - this for Dirla's place in Nashville?? I'm get interested in see it, since I'll be heading down there for the USVTA race in September

I'll be using my TCXX in USVTA

thanks!
Here a picture of Thunder RC last weekend.
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Old 08-12-2014, 11:44 AM   #1873
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Yes it's Dirla's joint.

I've only run VTA once and it was on a tight, low-bite track. I can tell you that I ended up with a really weird set-up to deal with the wider tires, added weight and slower speeds. I remember running 1.0 degree of toe in the rear to get it to rotate! I also remember having to change steering blocks to fit the wider tires. I think I ran XRAY blocks to keep the wheels from rubbing. I could have run shims, but I didn't want to make the car any wider. Not much of my 17.5 setup remained when I ran VTA. lol

What kind of track conditions do you have locally?
normally, I run on a med-high-ish carpet (Horsham, PA) but the last time I ran on carpet, I had to do the same thing -- go radical... so far off my normal setup that worked EVERYWHERE, carpet or asphalt... so I don't take too much trust in what I have on the car now i'll have to reset it back to my 'base' VTA set for down there

I had to go from 1* to 3.5* in the rear, and 2k to 5k in the rear diff.. had to pull the front spool for a diff with 300k in it...was a very bizarre setup on a small track

that's the only reason why I was asking
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Old 08-12-2014, 11:46 AM   #1874
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Here a picture of Thunder RC last weekend.
that's about the size I normally run on at Horsham so hopefully what I usually go with works there

probably won't be in until late Thursday, so i'll loose that day for practice
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Old 08-12-2014, 06:08 PM   #1875
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that's about the size I normally run on at Horsham so hopefully what I usually go with works there

probably won't be in until late Thursday, so i'll loose that day for practice
ThunderRC uses a sub-floor just like IIC and Snowbirds which increases grip. The carpet at Thunder is actually from IIC a couple years back. That's why I'm trying to get as much track-time on it before Snowbirds.

The track is 90 x 48.
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