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Old 12-27-2014, 03:27 PM   #676
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Default My 12R5.2

Here is a pic of my 12R5.2

Hope you guys like it. I am so ready!
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Old 01-02-2015, 09:42 AM   #677
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Question about lube and front suspension.

It says in the directions to perhaps use 30,000 cst diff lib on the front, below the pivot balls believe. If you go on petitrc various people use lube on some sort of weight; one person even used black grease.

My question is how does diff lube, make any difference here. I understand how a thicker viscosity oil plays a difference in a shock bladder body for example in touring but how does a thicker oil have any difference here. Do I need to lube this at all or how does front damper in my car benefit from a a thicker oil; despite simply coating a non confined space; sorry for the stupid question and thank you.
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Old 01-02-2015, 10:10 AM   #678
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Originally Posted by irvinew View Post
Question about lube and front suspension.

It says in the directions to perhaps use 30,000 cst diff lib on the front, below the pivot balls believe. If you go on petitrc various people use lube on some sort of weight; one person even used black grease.

My question is how does diff lube, make any difference here. I understand how a thicker viscosity oil plays a difference in a shock bladder body for example in touring but how does a thicker oil have any difference here. Do I need to lube this at all or how does front damper in my car benefit from a a thicker oil; despite simply coating a non confined space; sorry for the stupid question and thank you.
Heavy lube will stick on both the ball and kingpin. It will give some kind of damping effect, a bit like the side tubes. The heavier the lube, the more resistance to movement.

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Old 01-05-2015, 08:57 AM   #679
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Default Center Pivot

I really like the 12R5.2. On balance, I think it's the best 1/12th scale available.

A point of frustration, however, is the center football and how it can get tweaky over time. Having lived with the design for several years, I've evolved my build to minimize the issue and offer it here. If anyone has better ideas, please say so!

I believe that what happens is the plastic football where the 3mm locknuts clamp down takes an indent of the nuts, and as the unit is loosened and re-tightened it becomes progressively harder to square up the football, and to get it to stay squared up, so the pod action is not notchy. The solution is to replace the football. It's an inexpensive part. However, that doesn't help with the mid-run combat tweak when a perfectly setup car taps a board and suddenly goes to heck and there's 3 minutes remaining in the race.

What I do is start with a fresh football, fresh links, and two fresh lock nuts. With the links attached and properly clamped, and the center pivot properly adjusted in the football, I tighten down the football. I bring it just to snug, not tight. That is, the football is firm to the deck, but there is a tiny slip in the joint. There's a perfect point where the football will actually slip slightly beneath the nuts, but the bolts don't rock in their countersinks and there's no slop between the main deck and lower pod plate. Don't over-fiddle the nuts, as the more tighten/loosen cycles they're subjected to, the looser they get. Also, don't clamp down hard and then back off. The point is to avoid indenting the football plastic with the nuts.

The difference between too loose and too tight is a miniscule crack of the wrench, but when it's right, the whole thing stays reliably tweak-free for a good long time and combat tweaks are basically banished.

The perfect football has yet to be designed. The CRC build, where the football fits over screw posts and flat nuts screwed hard to the deck is maybe the one place where the Gen X cars have the advantage of the 12R5's. It holds up really well. The old SpeedMerchant method of fixed football and adjustable links is also good. It never tweaks. But, to make the links strong the ball cups are big, and there's a compromise on how high the balls are off the deck. I think side link pivot points lowered as far as possible are a good thing.

X-Ray copies the AE design, but I have not built one. Perhaps they've perfected a really hard, durable, slippery plastic that allows the football to move a little while eliminating slop between main deck and pod plate? I don't know.
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Old 01-05-2015, 11:53 AM   #680
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irvinew View Post
Question about lube and front suspension.

It says in the directions to perhaps use 30,000 cst diff lib on the front, below the pivot balls believe. If you go on petitrc various people use lube on some sort of weight; one person even used black grease.

My question is how does diff lube, make any difference here. I understand how a thicker viscosity oil plays a difference in a shock bladder body for example in touring but how does a thicker oil have any difference here. Do I need to lube this at all or how does front damper in my car benefit from a a thicker oil; despite simply coating a non confined space; sorry for the stupid question and thank you.
I usually run 20K on the front king pins. I notice it helps keep the front end smoother with little to no chatter.
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Old 01-05-2015, 11:57 AM   #681
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PutAwayWet View Post
I really like the 12R5.2. On balance, I think it's the best 1/12th scale available.

A point of frustration, however, is the center football and how it can get tweaky over time. Having lived with the design for several years, I've evolved my build to minimize the issue and offer it here. If anyone has better ideas, please say so!

I believe that what happens is the plastic football where the 3mm locknuts clamp down takes an indent of the nuts, and as the unit is loosened and re-tightened it becomes progressively harder to square up the football, and to get it to stay squared up, so the pod action is not notchy. The solution is to replace the football. It's an inexpensive part. However, that doesn't help with the mid-run combat tweak when a perfectly setup car taps a board and suddenly goes to heck and there's 3 minutes remaining in the race.

What I do is start with a fresh football, fresh links, and two fresh lock nuts. With the links attached and properly clamped, and the center pivot properly adjusted in the football, I tighten down the football. I bring it just to snug, not tight. That is, the football is firm to the deck, but there is a tiny slip in the joint. There's a perfect point where the football will actually slip slightly beneath the nuts, but the bolts don't rock in their countersinks and there's no slop between the main deck and lower pod plate. Don't over-fiddle the nuts, as the more tighten/loosen cycles they're subjected to, the looser they get. Also, don't clamp down hard and then back off. The point is to avoid indenting the football plastic with the nuts.

The difference between too loose and too tight is a miniscule crack of the wrench, but when it's right, the whole thing stays reliably tweak-free for a good long time and combat tweaks are basically banished.

The perfect football has yet to be designed. The CRC build, where the football fits over screw posts and flat nuts screwed hard to the deck is maybe the one place where the Gen X cars have the advantage of the 12R5's. It holds up really well. The old SpeedMerchant method of fixed football and adjustable links is also good. It never tweaks. But, to make the links strong the ball cups are big, and there's a compromise on how high the balls are off the deck. I think side link pivot points lowered as far as possible are a good thing.

X-Ray copies the AE design, but I have not built one. Perhaps they've perfected a really hard, durable, slippery plastic that allows the football to move a little while eliminating slop between main deck and pod plate? I don't know.
The Top Rebel 1/12 has the best pivot. Kyosho's is good but the Top is better. The Kyosho will fit on the associated.
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Old 01-05-2015, 05:28 PM   #682
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I really like the design of the Kyosho football. That's what I went with on my build. I did notch the Associated cross brace to allow easier adjustment.
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Old 01-05-2015, 06:10 PM   #683
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NCOHOG View Post
I really like the design of the Kyosho football. That's what I went with on my build. I did notch the Associated cross brace to allow easier adjustment.
Part number? US supplier? Link?
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Old 01-05-2015, 06:18 PM   #684
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NCOHOG View Post
Here is a pic of my 12R5.2

Hope you guys like it. I am so ready!
Are those Kyosho Ti turnbuckles?
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Old 01-05-2015, 06:30 PM   #685
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I ordered all the football parts from Amain. You have to buy more than you need since they come on parts trees. I don't remember the part numbers off hand. I think they are listed somewhere in this thread. I can find them tommorow if needed.

Yes they are Kyosho turnbuckles. I have always liked having the holes for adjustment. I find it much easier than a wrench. I did have to shorten the upper arm eyelets just a bit to make them work.
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Old 01-06-2015, 12:51 PM   #686
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This is my method...

Lightly sand the points on the chassis where the football clamps down, and then rub the football across some fine abrasive to remove the shine of the moulded face. This gives the football a much better grip and avoids it slipping when you tap a board.

When adjusting the ball in the socket, I leave a very (very!) small amount of float vertically. This allow the football joint to suffer a slight bit of movement yet still not bind up if the worst happens. The amount I leave is so small it can only be felt as a slick click of the car when you move the pivot vertically, but it does help.

Once cause of the problem is that often the base of the picot ball is not level with the base of the football. Fit the ball into the socket, adjust it to give the correct amount of free movement, and then set it level with feet on the bottom of the football. Put a steel ruler across the feet and the pivot ball. All the ones I have tried have the pivot ball below the level of the feet.

Disassemble and place the football face down on some fine abrasive (600 grit) and sand some off the plastic. Re-assemble and check. Keep doing this until the bottom of the pivot ball is level with the bottom of the feet.

Now when you assemble it you will find it easy to get a notch-free set-up. Also, if you do take a tap it tends not to change the performance when combined with my set-up above. HTH
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Old 01-06-2015, 04:50 PM   #687
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http://www.redrc.net/2015/01/tko-b5-pan-car-diff-rings/

Awesome! Definitely going to buy a few and test them out.
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Old 01-07-2015, 02:26 AM   #688
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PutAwayWet View Post
I really like the 12R5.2. On balance, I think it's the best 1/12th scale available.

A point of frustration, however, is the center football and how it can get tweaky over time. Having lived with the design for several years, I've evolved my build to minimize the issue and offer it here. If anyone has better ideas, please say so!

I believe that what happens is the plastic football where the 3mm locknuts clamp down takes an indent of the nuts, and as the unit is loosened and re-tightened it becomes progressively harder to square up the football, and to get it to stay squared up, so the pod action is not notchy. The solution is to replace the football. It's an inexpensive part. However, that doesn't help with the mid-run combat tweak when a perfectly setup car taps a board and suddenly goes to heck and there's 3 minutes remaining in the race.

What I do is start with a fresh football, fresh links, and two fresh lock nuts. With the links attached and properly clamped, and the center pivot properly adjusted in the football, I tighten down the football. I bring it just to snug, not tight. That is, the football is firm to the deck, but there is a tiny slip in the joint. There's a perfect point where the football will actually slip slightly beneath the nuts, but the bolts don't rock in their countersinks and there's no slop between the main deck and lower pod plate. Don't over-fiddle the nuts, as the more tighten/loosen cycles they're subjected to, the looser they get. Also, don't clamp down hard and then back off. The point is to avoid indenting the football plastic with the nuts.

The difference between too loose and too tight is a miniscule crack of the wrench, but when it's right, the whole thing stays reliably tweak-free for a good long time and combat tweaks are basically banished.

The perfect football has yet to be designed. The CRC build, where the football fits over screw posts and flat nuts screwed hard to the deck is maybe the one place where the Gen X cars have the advantage of the 12R5's. It holds up really well. The old SpeedMerchant method of fixed football and adjustable links is also good. It never tweaks. But, to make the links strong the ball cups are big, and there's a compromise on how high the balls are off the deck. I think side link pivot points lowered as far as possible are a good thing.

X-Ray copies the AE design, but I have not built one. Perhaps they've perfected a really hard, durable, slippery plastic that allows the football to move a little while eliminating slop between main deck and pod plate? I don't know.
I'm using AE pivot in V-Dezign car. The AE pivot plastic part is bad. The feet are not flat. It can easily be seen by putting it on a solid surface, outer edges are longer.
Sand the pivot feet straight (about 0.5mm is needed) and use spacers between feet and chassis so that rear pod and chassis are on even level.
I'm using non-nylock M3 nuts, nylocks can also tweak pivot..

I'm also interested of kyosho pivot. Have to check amain!
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Old 01-07-2015, 04:08 PM   #689
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We'll I'm a day late but here are the part numbers.

KYOPZ002 kyosho steering block set. (Has the football)

KYOPZ012 kyosho 5mm pivot ball ( I used them on the links also just incase the ball height was different than associated)

KYOPZ040 kyosho pivot nut & ball seat

I am 90 percent sure that is all that is needed. I also screwed up and ordered KYOPZ004 but I'm pretty sure I didn't use anything from it. However now I'm wondering if the side lengths are the same length as Associated? Maybe time to get the calipers out? If they are different I wonder what effect the length of the side link has? Just might be reason for more testing!
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Old 04-21-2015, 03:32 AM   #690
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Hello everyone...

Anybody have an idea if Team Associated is working on a new 12th scale? With almost all others having new versions I was wondering if AE was coming with anything new soon...
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