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Caster adjustment, or the lack of it?

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Caster adjustment, or the lack of it?

Old 12-09-2023, 03:32 PM
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Default Caster adjustment, or the lack of it?

Hi all, attempting a comeback to touring cars after about 20yrs away. I've noticed that a lot of TCs don't seem to have caster adjustment, or on the set-up sheets I've seen they all seem to be 4°?

I remember from my last TC (the first Xray, pillow balls and saddle packs) that running a lot of caster made for a nice stable turn in to hide my driving inadequacies (imagine what those inadequacies will look like now I'm in my 50s!)

I'm not going to be affording an X-ray this time, probably looking at an Xpress of some kind.

Is 4° a magic number? Seems unlikely given the huge variations of tracks, cars, drivers, tyres etc. Or just a good average?

Or do modern touring cars just not need it for some reason?

Also, could I just shim up the front of my suspension arm holders to have a similar affect? Or will that impact anti-dive?

I'm a proper over-thinker, happy to take advice and maybe some gentle banter if I've got this all wrong, so fire away!

Also, if you spot a similar thread to this one somewhere else on the forum, please let me know? I appear to have lost it earlier!!!

Thanks in advance
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Old 12-09-2023, 04:12 PM
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C hub cars don't tend to have much in the way of direct caster adjustment but you can do it by shimming the arm mounts. Most modern cars though have triangulated upper arms that do allow caster adjustments. 4 degrees is pretty close to a magic number though, it's rare to use much else.
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Old 12-09-2023, 04:24 PM
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Four degrees is pretty much standard today and usually works more or less everywhere (not saying it's perfect everywhere, mind you, but it generally works). Adjustment depends on the specific car entirely. Cars with C-Hub suspension usually require you to change the C-Hub for a part with more or less degrees built in. Maybe some manufacturers don't even offer any parts other than the 4 degrees any more - I wouldn't worry much though. The vast majority drives 4 degrees with some rare setups going for 5 maybe.
Other variants, like the Xray X4 for example, will require you to use different inserts or to turn them around, or both. On an Awesomatix you can freely adjust caster with your basic tools - but a setup station is more or less required to do it properly. And so on...

Just shimming the arm mounts will have more effects than just caster.

EDIT:
Also the hobby has changed a lot in those 20 years. LiPo, brushless, 2.4GHz radios to name a few. In today's (touring) cars themselves, you'll see no more ball diffs, no more one ways in the fronts. Spool in the front, gear diff in back is how they're sold and driven by the vast majority (a few people here and there still prefer a front diff, but you gotta buy one for yourself and for most people it's not worth the effort, as what you might gain in cornering, you'll lose in traction on acceleration. You'll hardly believe the changes from the new aero-optimized bodies, how much better they made the cars drive (not necessarily the looks, though). With all these changes, your mind ill be occupied more than enough for you to even think about adjusting caster in the first weeks and months.

Last edited by DirkW; 12-09-2023 at 04:56 PM.
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Old 12-10-2023, 01:25 AM
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Thank you both.

I'll try not to overthink it!

i had brushless when I last raced (Novak)

Spools were just coming out, I merely locked up my ball diff at the front to try it out!

I've not done Lipo as yet, but I am aware of the risks.

Looking forward to the new year

Thanks again
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Old 12-10-2023, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by frst
[...]

I'll try not to overthink it!

[...]

I've not done Lipo as yet, but I am aware of the risks.
Overthinking is never a good start. But thinking generally is. While LiPos aren't without potential dangers, but when you treat them correctly and cautiously (on a normal, not exaggerated level), they'll do fine.
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Old 12-11-2023, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by frst
Hi all, attempting a comeback to touring cars after about 20yrs away. I've noticed that a lot of TCs don't seem to have caster adjustment, or on the set-up sheets I've seen they all seem to be 4°?

I remember from my last TC (the first Xray, pillow balls and saddle packs) that running a lot of caster made for a nice stable turn in to hide my driving inadequacies (imagine what those inadequacies will look like now I'm in my 50s!)

I'm not going to be affording an X-ray this time, probably looking at an Xpress of some kind.

Is 4° a magic number? Seems unlikely given the huge variations of tracks, cars, drivers, tyres etc. Or just a good average?

Or do modern touring cars just not need it for some reason?

Also, could I just shim up the front of my suspension arm holders to have a similar affect? Or will that impact anti-dive?

I'm a proper over-thinker, happy to take advice and maybe some gentle banter if I've got this all wrong, so fire away!

Also, if you spot a similar thread to this one somewhere else on the forum, please let me know? I appear to have lost it earlier!!!

Thanks in advance
I highly advise on buying one of these cheap Chinese kits. while they might affordable, you will quickly find out how hard parts can to be to sourced. plus the online resources are very lacking. I high suggest getting an older kit as they can be relatively cheap with spares and more capable. Everyone that I know that has gone that route, usually regret it and pick up an older big brand kit and all of a sudden their experience becomes much better. There's a lot of good mtc2 going for cheap and its a great option. you could probably that car for the next 3yrs and not struggle with spares or setup, whether it be at the track or online.
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Old 12-11-2023, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Mig89
I highly advise on buying one of these cheap Chinese kits. while they might affordable, you will quickly find out how hard parts can to be to sourced. plus the online resources are very lacking. I high suggest getting an older kit as they can be relatively cheap with spares and more capable. Everyone that I know that has gone that route, usually regret it and pick up an older big brand kit and all of a sudden their experience becomes much better. There's a lot of good mtc2 going for cheap and its a great option. you could probably that car for the next 3yrs and not struggle with spares or setup, whether it be at the track or online.
Xpress has very good parts availability. If I can't get something from my local distributor, rcMart has what I need. Conversely some of the guys I race with are struggling to find certain parts for their Xray 20/21 cars. Buying older brand name cars isn't always the best option, so do your research on the specific car before buying.
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Old 12-12-2023, 07:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Mig89
*chinese kits are scary*
I'm here to back up gigaplex. I do buy chinese kits, and buy spares at the same time. For the cost of "A" arm on an X-ray, I can generally get a complete set for a Xpress, or 3-Racing set of arms. And I can afford to have a set of tuning parts. The parts are available from at least two vendors in the US. Which is better than the european names, in many cases.
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Old 12-12-2023, 07:31 AM
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I've been eyeing the Xpress XQ2S, and I'll probably be able to buy everything I need to get started AND a spares car, so I know I'll have at least one of everything spare to start with at least!

I like the look of some of the 3racing kits, but during my research id seen it mentioned that they werent famous for their strength compared to the Xpress?

I remember breaking the Yokomo i had before the Xray so much that one of my mates renamed it "Broke-omo", so I'm keen to avoid that scenario.

Thanks again for all replies
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Old 12-12-2023, 08:14 AM
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Xpress (unlike some other Chinese brands) is established enough for me not to worry about parts support. I'd buy their stuff without hesitation for some classes (in my case not instead of, but rather in addition to Xray). No car is unbreakable, though. And Yokomo never had a bad reputation in that regard, so I don't know if you'll do any better with a different brand in that regard.
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Old 12-12-2023, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by frst
I've been eyeing the Xpress XQ2S, and I'll probably be able to buy everything I need to get started AND a spares car*snip*
Thanks again for all replies
SO, this ends up being "consumers choice". I've not broken either Xpress or 3 racing stuff much. Not for lack of trying. BUT, they both have the whole range of parts available, from basic ABS, to Polycarbonante, and Glass and Carbon filled versions of their components. ABS is gonna bounce back the most. So you can kinda decide how break resistant your kit is going to be.
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Old 12-12-2023, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Nerobro
I'm here to back up gigaplex. I do buy chinese kits, and buy spares at the same time. For the cost of "A" arm on an X-ray, I can generally get a complete set for a Xpress, or 3-Racing set of arms. And I can afford to have a set of tuning parts. The parts are available from at least two vendors in the US. Which is better than the european names, in many cases.
I can get mtc2 parts in 2 days and that kit from the box can be ran and be solid with. Being a mugen, I know that's others at the track with or tuning options I can try and then buy it if I like. Idk how many times I've seen someone break one of those kits and don't have and they're out for a couple weeks. I've seen a few guys bounce around with those affordable brands to only double or triple dip into the hobby only for how much work those kits take to work. Another thing to consider, is the setup advice you can get at the track from running a more popular kit.

BTW xray isn't a good example for an order kit to use. Xray literally changes a few bits so you have to buy all spares if you buy the current. My mugen, that ive had for 2yrs now still work on the current kit and it will be another 3 yrs it gets replaced. You get mtc2's for under 400 artr with spares and tuning parts. You there will always be more mugens at the track than a chinese brand. Also, I don't factor in the cost of spares if I don't hit anything, then I would have no need for spares.

It's all preference and everyone gets choose how their experience in the hobby. I made the mistake in my first go around in trying to save as much as possible and it was issue after issue and it didn't help when I was the only running my kit. I made that mistake and try advising people so they don't the same mistakes I did.
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Old 12-12-2023, 11:23 AM
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Amusingly, I've seen exactly one mugen at the track. Ever.
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Old 12-12-2023, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Mig89
I can get mtc2 parts in 2 days and that kit from the box can be ran and be solid with. Being a mugen, I know that's others at the track with or tuning options I can try and then buy it if I like. Idk how many times I've seen someone break one of those kits and don't have and they're out for a couple weeks. I've seen a few guys bounce around with those affordable brands to only double or triple dip into the hobby only for how much work those kits take to work. Another thing to consider, is the setup advice you can get at the track from running a more popular kit.

BTW xray isn't a good example for an order kit to use. Xray literally changes a few bits so you have to buy all spares if you buy the current. My mugen, that ive had for 2yrs now still work on the current kit and it will be another 3 yrs it gets replaced. You get mtc2's for under 400 artr with spares and tuning parts. You there will always be more mugens at the track than a chinese brand. Also, I don't factor in the cost of spares if I don't hit anything, then I would have no need for spares.

It's all preference and everyone gets choose how their experience in the hobby. I made the mistake in my first go around in trying to save as much as possible and it was issue after issue and it didn't help when I was the only running my kit. I made that mistake and try advising people so they don't the same mistakes I did.
I can get Xpress parts in 2 days too. Meanwhile I couldn't run my recently purchased MTC2R for over a week after getting it because it didn't come with a servo horn, none of mine fit that special servo mount as there's not enough clearance, and I had to order the special Mugen horn from overseas because it was out of stock in my country. And now that I've got that Mugen, there are 3 people total running that brand locally. There are more Xpress drivers near me.

Xray is the usual example of what people recommend getting second hand. Why? Partly because it's one of the most popular brands, and partly because they release new models so frequently that there's usually a lot of older models floating around. And until recently their parts compatibility was superb. The '20 model is where all of that changed.
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Old 12-12-2023, 01:54 PM
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What is the effect of changing front caster from the 4 degrees to 0 degrees? I assume the difference would be noticeable in the corners only?
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