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Old 09-01-2015, 11:54 PM   #6076
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Interesting decision. What made you decide to "upgrade" - especially when the new models are likely so close?
The Xray served us well, it was very good. It is actually my son who's racing, I'm wrenching.

We just had a weakness for the Yokomo, the black series just looks amazing. Yes, the Xray diffs and shocks are more leakfree, and the plastics are more durable, but in my (humble) opinion, the Xray is built for the "masses" and needs to be sturdy, the Yokomo is built for modified racing for Volker. Put in very general terms We run modified (okay, not like Volker). We just wanted the "ultimate tool" for mod racing.

I believe that the Yokomo can be faster (totally undocumented) than the Xray, if you're willing to put some extra effort into it, as it is not as stable and sturdy as an Xray and needs more setup adjustments in between runs. The Xray could hit the curbs and the camber measure would still be almost dead on, the Yokomo tends to get a little more out of wack if you hit something.

So, to be fast with the Yokomo, you need to be a pretty good driver that does not hit too many curbs and boards. If you do, the Xray is probably a safer bet. Even though we have not been racing TC for too long, we are past the beginner level, and our driving skills can now better accommodate a more delicate car like the Yokomo.

We have run the Yokomo a couple of weekends now, and our speed has been the same or better than with the Xray. Whether that proves my belief or the Yokomo just suits us better, I don't know.

And we got a chance to get sponsored driving the Yokomo, and yes we are anticipating the 2016 version, even though we think the 2015 is excellent.

We started out with the Tamiya 418 before going to Xray, and the speeds were equally fast with the Tamiya. We broke less C hubs on the Xray (okay, we broke none using the standard plastic parts), but lap time wise, it was the same. I admit that a more durable car that finishes the race is better than a slightly faster car, that do not finish due to a broken part. That brings me back to the driving skills and type of car. If you hit things often, you need a sturdy car.

Even though I said that I believe that the Yokomo (ultimately) can be faster than the Xray, put in the right hands and context, I also believe that if you take your time to learn, any of the X number of top brand cars go fast. Especially on the level that we are on. We are not pushing these cars to their limits anyway.

This weekend we finished the last outdoor national TC race, and the top runner had just changed his car from a Tamiya 419 to a Schumacher Mi5Evo, and he was just as superior as always. Probably didn't matter what brand TC he was driving

And a final word on durability, another racer at the weekends race took some serious crashes with his Yokomo, one almost at top speed on the main strait, and he did not brake a thing on his Yokomo
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Old 09-02-2015, 12:32 AM   #6077
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Hey guys. I'm looking at getting a BD7 ver.RS3 to race at a local track in sportsman class. Are there any 'must have' upgrades that I should look at?
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Old 09-02-2015, 01:32 AM   #6078
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The Xray served us well, it was very good. It is actually my son who's racing, I'm wrenching
Thanks for the comprehensive response!

Interesting thinking. Can't say much other than the 419 is a way better car overall than the 418 (I've had both) so would be interesting to see how your son thinks that is. I feel the yokomo is probably the better, more well thought out choice. The 419 is fast though. Just not fast enough in my hands
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Old 09-02-2015, 04:01 AM   #6079
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Originally Posted by Salkin View Post
The Xray served us well, it was very good. It is actually my son who's racing, I'm wrenching.

We just had a weakness for the Yokomo, the black series just looks amazing. Yes, the Xray diffs and shocks are more leakfree, and the plastics are more durable, but in my (humble) opinion, the Xray is built for the "masses" and needs to be sturdy, the Yokomo is built for modified racing for Volker. Put in very general terms We run modified (okay, not like Volker). We just wanted the "ultimate tool" for mod racing.

I believe that the Yokomo can be faster (totally undocumented) than the Xray, if you're willing to put some extra effort into it, as it is not as stable and sturdy as an Xray and needs more setup adjustments in between runs. The Xray could hit the curbs and the camber measure would still be almost dead on, the Yokomo tends to get a little more out of wack if you hit something.

So, to be fast with the Yokomo, you need to be a pretty good driver that does not hit too many curbs and boards. If you do, the Xray is probably a safer bet. Even though we have not been racing TC for too long, we are past the beginner level, and our driving skills can now better accommodate a more delicate car like the Yokomo.

We have run the Yokomo a couple of weekends now, and our speed has been the same or better than with the Xray. Whether that proves my belief or the Yokomo just suits us better, I don't know.

And we got a chance to get sponsored driving the Yokomo, and yes we are anticipating the 2016 version, even though we think the 2015 is excellent.

We started out with the Tamiya 418 before going to Xray, and the speeds were equally fast with the Tamiya. We broke less C hubs on the Xray (okay, we broke none using the standard plastic parts), but lap time wise, it was the same. I admit that a more durable car that finishes the race is better than a slightly faster car, that do not finish due to a broken part. That brings me back to the driving skills and type of car. If you hit things often, you need a sturdy car.

Even though I said that I believe that the Yokomo (ultimately) can be faster than the Xray, put in the right hands and context, I also believe that if you take your time to learn, any of the X number of top brand cars go fast. Especially on the level that we are on. We are not pushing these cars to their limits anyway.

This weekend we finished the last outdoor national TC race, and the top runner had just changed his car from a Tamiya 419 to a Schumacher Mi5Evo, and he was just as superior as always. Probably didn't matter what brand TC he was driving

And a final word on durability, another racer at the weekends race took some serious crashes with his Yokomo, one almost at top speed on the main strait, and he did not brake a thing on his Yokomo
Great article, and I agree with it 100%, I had Xray for 3 years and the last year I have been with Yokomo and absolutely love it. When the Yokomo is fast and going well it's such a great feeling, the X-ray can be fast, but feels very easy and sturdy to drive as mentioned, which imo isn't s satisfying to drive.
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Old 09-02-2015, 07:46 AM   #6080
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Originally Posted by Salkin View Post
The Xray served us well, it was very good. It is actually my son who's racing, I'm wrenching.

[...]
I think you are a victim of the Holy Grail of TC racing myth.

The car is not fast, the driver is (which apparently you noticed about your friend in the last paragraph).

Yokomo cars have indeed a certain feel about them which makes them not feel like "just another TC" but are not inherently faster than others. And they do have some things that really irk me, too.

Besides, didn't Hagberg beat Volker?

Not that Volker would be a slouch if he jumped ship to Xray either.

Good luck with your choice, anyway.

PS. I'm still torn between Yokomo and Xray for this year too, but would like to see a good Tamiya as well (for a change). Hey, if they're all good, I might even get all three!
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Old 09-02-2015, 09:48 AM   #6081
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Yes, Hagberg beat Volker, but then again, Volker has beaten Hagberg many times the last year, both running the T4'15 and BD7 2015.

I think the latest Xray/Hagberg/Bruno win is more a correlation of driver form curves and that Bruno is an extremely fast, yet aggressive driver, and that he might have added some speed to the Xray modified team that where not there before.
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Old 09-02-2015, 12:49 PM   #6082
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salkin View Post
The Xray served us well, it was very good. It is actually my son who's racing, I'm wrenching.

We just had a weakness for the Yokomo, the black series just looks amazing. Yes, the Xray diffs and shocks are more leakfree, and the plastics are more durable, but in my (humble) opinion, the Xray is built for the "masses" and needs to be sturdy, the Yokomo is built for modified racing for Volker. Put in very general terms We run modified (okay, not like Volker). We just wanted the "ultimate tool" for mod racing.

I believe that the Yokomo can be faster (totally undocumented) than the Xray, if you're willing to put some extra effort into it, as it is not as stable and sturdy as an Xray and needs more setup adjustments in between runs. The Xray could hit the curbs and the camber measure would still be almost dead on, the Yokomo tends to get a little more out of wack if you hit something.

So, to be fast with the Yokomo, you need to be a pretty good driver that does not hit too many curbs and boards. If you do, the Xray is probably a safer bet. Even though we have not been racing TC for too long, we are past the beginner level, and our driving skills can now better accommodate a more delicate car like the Yokomo.

We have run the Yokomo a couple of weekends now, and our speed has been the same or better than with the Xray. Whether that proves my belief or the Yokomo just suits us better, I don't know.

And we got a chance to get sponsored driving the Yokomo, and yes we are anticipating the 2016 version, even though we think the 2015 is excellent.

We started out with the Tamiya 418 before going to Xray, and the speeds were equally fast with the Tamiya. We broke less C hubs on the Xray (okay, we broke none using the standard plastic parts), but lap time wise, it was the same. I admit that a more durable car that finishes the race is better than a slightly faster car, that do not finish due to a broken part. That brings me back to the driving skills and type of car. If you hit things often, you need a sturdy car.

Even though I said that I believe that the Yokomo (ultimately) can be faster than the Xray, put in the right hands and context, I also believe that if you take your time to learn, any of the X number of top brand cars go fast. Especially on the level that we are on. We are not pushing these cars to their limits anyway.

This weekend we finished the last outdoor national TC race, and the top runner had just changed his car from a Tamiya 419 to a Schumacher Mi5Evo, and he was just as superior as always. Probably didn't matter what brand TC he was driving

And a final word on durability, another racer at the weekends race took some serious crashes with his Yokomo, one almost at top speed on the main strait, and he did not brake a thing on his Yokomo
Not trying to ruffle other's feathers up, but I tend to agree with this. I consider myself a high level driver, definitely not a Volker level type guy, but going back to the Yokomo recently I was able to find the pace that I had been missing to compete and many times outpace the fastest driver in my part of the country, who had been eating my lunch for the past couple of years. The Yokomo is not for everyone, because as I have stated before, this car is very sensitive to adjustments that many times we consider just "fine tuning". The XRAY diffs reign supreme, and the shocks are also super easy to build. The XRAY requires less maintenance for sure and it can definitely be very fast in the hands of the right driver, however I can't totally get used to the driving style of the car.

My take on it is that the XRAY is aggressive going into the corner naturally and then washes out the front mid corner. It requires a smooth in hard out driving style, while the Yokomo is very stable on entry, so it needs to be thrown in the corner and then you have to get used to the rotation of the car n the middle and exit of the turn to gain full benefits. I tend to drive like this, the rotation that the car generates while maintaining rear bite allows me to be more comfortable and relaxed when driving it vs the XRAY that I always feel like I have to drive it very hard to go fast. Both can be equally fast but ultimately the feel is completely different, so I tend to go Yokomo because it suits me better.

Now on durability, nothing is as good as XRAY, that's a fact, but the Yokomo CFRP is far tougher than it used to be. I used to breathe on it wrong and break a rear hub or caster block, that no longer is the case.
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Old 09-02-2015, 01:55 PM   #6083
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I've been driving the Xray for years off and on and it's always about the same for me. I don't think Xray has ever changed the design of its steering knuckles and chubs other then to make the opening larger for DCJs. The Xray has always been very stable to me because, IMO, the steering system doesn't produce great mechanic grip so the car always has a bit of a push. it's easy to drive more consistently but not always fast. overall times are better because you're more consistent. the rear is usually very planted too. i struggle sometimes getting the car to rotate. I agree with the comment that you have to "drive it" hard to get results. I have had very good results with it but i feel tired after a race

Anyway, i used to run yokomo and liked it at my local events but struggled with it when i went to big events. as the grip went up, the car would change dramatically. I just purchased a 2015 though to give yokomo another go. the first few runs seem promising but so far my times are way off pace and the car is unstable. I started with the kit setup. I'm just starting to play with setup changes. I'm looking forward to doing some good testing this weekend. I'm sure i can get it to where it's faster per lap then the xray...the question for me is, can i get it to be faster and still be consistent lap to lap and not over rotate every fourth or fifth lap. we'll see
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Old 09-03-2015, 08:10 AM   #6084
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Outdoors the BD7 15 does struggle a little compared to the XRAY when the grip is lower, if you only race on Carpet then the BD7 is an excellent choice
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Old 09-03-2015, 03:45 PM   #6085
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I have had the BD7 2014 and t4 15 driven the BD7 15 plenty of times too.
The worlds finals is perfect example of the difference between the bd7 and T4.

BD7 is the carries more corner speed by a significant margin but lacks turn in and has a much smaller setup window.

When the grip is high it is fast.

In the first final at the worlds when the track had a light coating of dust and the grip was low Nato and RV both had spins and Bruno drove away almost unaffected by the lower grip conditions. Once the grip came up towards the end of the run the yokos were clearly faster.

Grip was high for finals 2 and 3 and Yokos easily drove away from the rest.
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Old 09-03-2015, 03:49 PM   #6086
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Outdoors the BD7 15 does struggle a little compared to the XRAY when the grip is lower, if you only race on Carpet then the BD7 is an excellent choice
So how would suggest improving the grip level of the Bd7 2015 in colder outdoor conditions were the surface temp of the asphalt can be lower than 20deg Celius in winter
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Old 09-03-2015, 04:55 PM   #6087
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So how would suggest improving the grip level of the Bd7 2015 in colder outdoor conditions were the surface temp of the asphalt can be lower than 20deg Celius in winter
This winter I initially struggled, as it was my first winter with the car, but a couple of simple things helped, other then now running HPI silvers all the time now, slightly thicker shock oil helped, as well as laying the shocks down one notch, I also went from a 32 compound to the 30. Over the last month I have gained a good 0.8s a lap back but more importantly got my consistency back to 0.1 overall because I wasn't fighting the car. Edit: and we had plenty of times where the track was sitting at about 5 deg come final time
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Old 09-03-2015, 05:39 PM   #6088
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Originally Posted by DamianW View Post
I have had the BD7 2014 and t4 15 driven the BD7 15 plenty of times too.
The worlds finals is perfect example of the difference between the bd7 and T4.

BD7 is the carries more corner speed by a significant margin but lacks turn in and has a much smaller setup window.

When the grip is high it is fast.

In the first final at the worlds when the track had a light coating of dust and the grip was low Nato and RV both had spins and Bruno drove away almost unaffected by the lower grip conditions. Once the grip came up towards the end of the run the yokos were clearly faster.

Grip was high for finals 2 and 3 and Yokos easily drove away from the rest.
Wassup Damian what I experienced early morning when the track is a bit loose in the morning I ran a softer shock lower cst then as the grip came up I would back
I have tested the Tamiya,T4 then I tested the Bd7 the Yok just carries more corner speed & is more stable than the others tamiya nasty push in the corners T4 washing out
I can't wait to the paved season to begin as I have only used the 2015 on carpet
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Old 09-03-2015, 05:58 PM   #6089
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This winter I initially struggled, as it was my first winter with the car, but a couple of simple things helped, other then now running HPI silvers all the time now, slightly thicker shock oil helped, as well as laying the shocks down one notch, I also went from a 32 compound to the 30. Over the last month I have gained a good 0.8s a lap back but more importantly got my consistency back to 0.1 overall because I wasn't fighting the car. Edit: and we had plenty of times where the track was sitting at about 5 deg come final time
So what I have read is for lower grip

30 or lower tires
Thinner top deck and lighter Titanium screws
Remove the X brace at the rear
5.5m rear 5mm front
Black shocks rear, pink Front
800 Cst rear Diff, locker diff front (or I have heard diff with 1000000cst helps steering)
Floating servo mount
Tyre warmers / Goo ( my issue with this is the colder the day, the tyres just get cold anyways after a period)
Different Spur / Pinion ratios to prevent or assist in cornering . spinning out

Unknowns

Tyre Sanding and removing the bead in the middle
Weight balance Front / Rear
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Old 09-03-2015, 06:23 PM   #6090
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So what I have read is for lower grip

30 or lower tires
Thinner top deck and lighter Titanium screws leave the top deck, ok for titanium screws on the top of chassis, leave the bottom.
Remove the X brace at the rear yes
5.5m rear 5mm front probably, but kit ones are still fine havnt found the need to change width
Black shocks rear, pink Front pink is still too soft, was originally running pink/pinks was good when grip was silly, as it had really nice rotation and bite, but car is so much more stable with HPI silvers with lower grip
800 Cst rear Diff, locker diff front (or I have heard diff with 1000000cst helps steering) 2-3K is still preferred for rear, even in low grip,
Floating servo mount yes, also the Yokomo weights help with flex over standard weights, and don't use too much tape on mounting receiver end esc
Tyre warmers / Goo ( my issue with this is the colder the day, the tyres just get cold anyways after a period) they do get colder to point to a point away from the warmers, if its silly cold I usually heat up to 60 deg,
Different Spur / Pinion ratios to prevent or assist in cornering . spinning out
probably better to work on ESC punch levels


Unknowns

Tyre Sanding and removing the bead in the middle I usually just remove the bead and balance tyres as well but this is all the time, not when grip is low
Weight balance Front / Rear I found the yokomo front weights helped a little as well
My preferences in Red
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