R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10-29-2013, 09:01 AM   #2146
Tech Regular
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Gilroy, CA
Posts: 477
Trader Rating: 3 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FoiVoS_ View Post
I just feel like i want to maintain my driveshafts :P What should i do ? Put some thin oil or something like that ?

I would use some dry lube. oil will make them a magnet for dirt, fibers and debris amd evetually ruin them. unless you want tobdo very very frequent cleanings
eunique is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2013, 05:50 AM   #2147
Tech Apprentice
 
FoiVoS_'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Thessaloniki/Greece
Posts: 92
Default

Guys can someone who fully understand how suspension works on drift cars tell me what diffrence does it make to change the rear - front shock angle ?
FoiVoS_ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2013, 04:06 AM   #2148
Tech Initiate
 
Erasus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Bottrop, Germany
Posts: 26
Default

Hi guys! I am following this thread for a while now and was soaking up every drop of information provided by you people. Wanna thank you for providing so much insight and help, really appreciate it!

However, as some might notice, english is not my native language and tech talk not my forte.

To be precise, I have difficulties, understanding, why the stock D3 Knuckles cannot be used for the KPI/Posican MOD.

Can someone like MacGyuver or eunique elobarate on this a bit more? Perhaps with some pictures, pointing to the main features of those KPI-able knuckles as opposed to the stock ones?

Also, I recently came in contact with some guys in the german drift comm. who use the Eagle Racing OTA-R31 steering crank (.broadtech.hk/eagleshop/shop/ShopProductDetail.aspx?id=R31-17-LBL) with some 8mm extension arms (.broadtech.hk/eagleshop/shop/ShopProductDetail.aspx?id=3860P15-8-LBL) to great success on their D3s. It is pretty much a bolt on solution, no drilling, dremeling or filing needed and the slack is pretty much gone, according to those guys. However, I do not have any experience with this steering crank, so i wanted to ask you guys:
Has someone first hand experience with this kind of mod?

Also, what do you guys think of these MST KPI Knuckles: .maxspeedtechnology.co.uk/kpi-aluminium-knuckles-all-colours.html

Wouldnt they make the small extension arm on the knuckles obsolete?

On another topic: Is there some kind of ruleset for RC drifting regarding the use of the drag brake?

After a lot of trouble with braking with those pistol grips (it feels very unnatural and unintuitive to me, I just cannot bring my fingers to make use of the braking properly without throwing me out of concept completely, resulting in very twitchy and `blippy`throttle behaviour) I set my ESC to make use of the drag brake when going off the throttle completely, so whenever I let loose the trigger, my rear wheels lock up.

I have been very successfull lately with this kind of setup, since it eliminates what doesn`t seem to me to be a wanted feature anyways, the no throttle, just rolling- kind of driving state, since we are all either (more or less) ON throttle or in breaking mode (at least from my understanding and practice). I have yet to see someone (successfully) idling in, through or out a corner.

It also taught me not to use `blip`like throttle control, but to make use of the whole range between zero and full throttle smoothly, being able now to despense throttle much more precisely than before, resulting in much smoother drifts at different speeds.

But back to my question: Would be some kind of circumventing the traditional push trigger back-braking be against some kind of unwritten law of RC drifting?

For now I am just practicing alone on a skate park nearby. Though I start to feel comfortable with my drifting and looking forward to enter the RC drifting scene, but I am afraid that those peeps might look down on me for not using the brakes `properly`.

So what is your stance on that?

Thanks in advance

regards

Era

Addendum:
Quote:
Originally Posted by FoiVoS_ View Post
Guys can someone who fully understand how suspension works on drift cars tell me what diffrence does it make to change the rear - front shock angle ?
A more upright position results in a more direct, faster, `aggressive` shock reaction, while a more angled one is smoother but slower.

Add.#2: Eunique, in the last vid you posted, there was a black BMW E46 being chased by a hachiroku. Do you happen to know what manufacturer does those E46 bodies? I just happen to find those shoddy looking HPI E46 GTR bodies...
This is the video in question:
.youtube.com/watch?v=1Q8X3MHdjbo&feature=share&list=UU7EQkgO_QY FULGuvbkviM3A

Add.#3: Mac, may I ask you what camber your front wheels have when on neutral position? I have seen in one pic, that the gold Yokomo had a positive! camber when in neutral which is kinda...odd. Does your D3 have a positive neutral camber as well?

Add.#4: Has anyone seen the Addiction Panther Conversion kit (driftmission.com/addiction-rc-sakura-d3-panther-conversion-kit/) already? It does look like a more streamlined version of the 3Racing hop ups, seems to have additional stiffening blocks made of aluminum, and is pretty pricey!

I am a bit puzzled, as to why Addiction brings this out, since I do not see anything new or special on this conv kit, yet the price is indeed very steep. Can someone enlighten me about the features of this kit?

Last edited by Erasus; 11-06-2013 at 09:18 PM.
Erasus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2013, 10:12 AM   #2149
Tech Rookie
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 10
Default

Hi, as I'm relatively new to this hobby I encounter very heavy chattering when steering my sakura D3 , I understand that i would need a wide angle CVD + front one way.

Problem is i already have these 2 installed yet my chattering didn't stop, is it due to my FOW as i used the SAK-59/V2/PK(meant for Sakura Zero) instead of the designated D3 FOW?

Thanks , all help is appreciated.
wanrong is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2013, 11:24 AM   #2150
Tech Apprentice
 
FoiVoS_'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Thessaloniki/Greece
Posts: 92
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wanrong View Post
Hi, as I'm relatively new to this hobby I encounter very heavy chattering when steering my sakura D3 , I understand that i would need a wide angle CVD + front one way.

Problem is i already have these 2 installed yet my chattering didn't stop, is it due to my FOW as i used the SAK-59/V2/PK(meant for Sakura Zero) instead of the designated D3 FOW?

Thanks , all help is appreciated.
No ,the SakZero FOW is the same as the D3 and works the same as me , eunique and other drifters use it . Have you bought the ultra wide angle driveshafts for sure ? Had the chattering been decreased any after the upgrades you had done ?
FoiVoS_ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2013, 11:59 AM   #2151
Tech Rookie
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 10
Default

Actually i installed the hop up and skip right through the stock CVD. And I'm pretty sure i got the correct one.

However i notice that my FOW is not very smooth, is it ok if i grease/oil it?
wanrong is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2013, 09:14 PM   #2152
Tech Initiate
 
Erasus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Bottrop, Germany
Posts: 26
Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by wanrong View Post
Actually i installed the hop up and skip right through the stock CVD. And I'm pretty sure i got the correct one.

However i notice that my FOW is not very smooth, is it ok if i grease/oil it?
Hi,

You can do that, but if the FOW is new, you shouldnt need to. Does it feel "bumpy" if you roll the FOWs cups? So that the bearings roll nicely to a certain point, then kinda lock slightly, then going normal? Or are they just generally hard to turn?

If it is the second, make sure you have not installed the FOW with the spacers, it comes with! It fits into the D3 without them. Squeezing the FOW in with them will make it very hard to turn.

If it`s the first instance, it could be that the bearing is defective and one ball got displaced or crumbled.

If you can, remove the bearing, put some pure alcohol (like disc brake cleaner) in a cup or something similar you can seal, put the bearing into that cup and vigorously shake it, then let the bearing dry for an hour and apply some oil. If it still "bumps", then the bearing is done for.

Also, please check, if those small pins, which connect the axle cup with the dogbone, are properly aligned. Those UWAs should be assembled properly, but you can only be certain if you check them. Trust is good, control is better! If they are loose, you can either try to shrink tube them into place, or dremel a small notch into the pins where the grub screw can hold onto, then tighten the grub screw properly.
Check the pins on the rear axle, too! Mine fell out, tearing up my rear knuckles!

I also still have chattering, although using UWAs and FOW. It is due to excessive slop in the stock ball cups, c-hubs and steering assembly.

If you wiggle your wheels around for a bit you will see what I mean.
Due to this, the tires wear out unevenly, making matters worse.

You can reduce chatter by setting your steering endpoints lower, buying new ball cups (for instance: Yeah Racing (#BN-0009BK) 4.8mm Delrin Ball End Size 15.00mm (BK)) and/or do the plastic bag mod, Caseymacguyver described on page 127 in post #1893.

hope this helps

regards

Era

Last edited by Erasus; 11-06-2013 at 10:13 PM.
Erasus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2013, 10:12 PM   #2153
Tech Rookie
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 10
Default

Wow, thanks for the comprehensive explanation. But really sorry that i made an mistake of the chattering, the chattering does not happen when its suspended in the midair but rather when its on the ground moving.

really sorry for not pointing this out earlier.
wanrong is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2013, 11:15 PM   #2154
Tech Initiate
 
Erasus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Bottrop, Germany
Posts: 26
Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by wanrong View Post
Wow, thanks for the comprehensive explanation. But really sorry that i made an mistake of the chattering, the chattering does not happen when its suspended in the midair but rather when its on the ground moving.

really sorry for not pointing this out earlier.
Hi,

Yeah that is a common observation. It is because you just cannot get the chatter out of non SSK driveshafts completely. It is inherent to the design, the UWAs use. The UWAs main feature is not the increased steering angle but moreover having a wide outer cup ring which allows the dogbone to touch it, before the forces inside the driveshafts become strong enough to cause several chatter and eventually desintegrate the whole assembly.
The standard driveshafts do have that outer ring too, but it is too small, so when the angle on the standard driveshafts is big enough that the driveshaft touches this outer ring, you will notice that the whole driveshafts occasionally locks up, skips and bumps pretty badly.

The same happens in UWAs at full lock, but to a much lesser degree, however, small bumps are still present, especially when there is load on the wheels, as it magnifies the forces that act on the driveshafts, because wheels and driveshafts are constantly fighting each other about which direction to go.
This tendency of the driveshafts to bump, exploits every sloppyness in your steering and suspension assembly, thus causing noticable chatter and wobble.

It really isnt the drivershafts, it is the poor quality sloppy steering crank, c-hubs and the ball cups mostly.
If you can tighten up your front end, the chatter will vanish almost completely.
If you want the chatter to stop, without spending a good amount of time and money to tighten everything up, you can buy yourself the SSK driveshafts (.rcmart.com/3racing-driveshaft-sakura-xisakura-ffsakura-zero-sakx27-p-35191.html?cPath=1102_1106). Though keep in mind that they only have a maximum steering angle of 45 degrees (the same steering angle as the stock driveshafts), compared to the UWAs 54 degrees, so you will loose a good amount of max steering angle, but the chatter will most likely stop completely.

I am very bad at describing things on a technical level, I am afraid.
If you have the time and the willpower to read through this thread, you will find a very good explanation, It is from Caseymacguyver iirc.

I generally recommend to read through this thread, as it is a pretty complete compendium of workarounds, tuning tips and whatnot. It is worth it!

Hope this helps

regards

Era
__________________
Under Construction

Last edited by Erasus; 11-06-2013 at 11:57 PM.
Erasus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2013, 08:39 AM   #2155
Tech Apprentice
 
jlavador's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 72
Default

Coming from years of offroad racing, I bit the bullet and got a D3. I also got the recommended upgrades; Front One way spool, wide angle front drive shafts, belt tensioner, spur stiffener, Is there anything else you guys reccomend?
__________________
Team Associated RC8.2e Factory Team ~ Tekin ~ Futaba ~ Pro-Line ~ Savox ~
3Racing Sakura D3 ~ Tamiya ~ Speed Passion ~ Speedline
jlavador is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2013, 10:32 AM   #2156
Tech Initiate
 
Erasus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Bottrop, Germany
Posts: 26
Red face

Quote:
Originally Posted by jlavador View Post
Coming from years of offroad racing, I bit the bullet and got a D3. I also got the recommended upgrades; Front One way spool, wide angle front drive shafts, belt tensioner, spur stiffener, Is there anything else you guys reccomend?
Hi there!

I recommend to get a couple spare belts for each location (front, middle, rear, of course) and also a set of springs, to have some more tuning options, as the stock ones are pretty darn soft and are barely able to hold the front up!
Just make sure to buy springs that actually fit, not like me, who bought this 3Racing Spring Set For #M03M-13/LB/V2 #M03M-13/V2/OP. They are way to short!

I see you already have spur gear support plate and spur gear adaptor? Good choice!

I personally had some serious issues with the stock plastic pulleys on the D3. They kept shredding the front and center belts, until I changed them to 3Racing aluminum ones (.rcmart.com/3racing-3rac3py13-aluminum-center-pulley-gear-p-35716.html?cPath=595_1419_1566). Since then my belts hold up nicely.
Though i havent read much about it by other people, so it could be just me. They are (the stock plastic pulleys) ,however, pretty soft and dont have very high teeth compared to the aluminum ones. It seemed like they were kinda bending and the belts startet skipping teeth. One pulley even started to melt, so.... yeah.

Also nice to have is a bag of each 1mm, 2 mm and .5mm washers (.rcmart.com/3racing-aluminium-flat-washer-20mm-3racwf320pk-p-31775.html?cPath=595_1419_1566 for example).
With these you can swap the plastic shims on the lower suspension arms, which adds bling and reduces friction. You can also put these under the upper deck to gain a few more millimeters for your lipos to slide into the battery tray easily without scratching the surface of your lipos, and much more. Very handy and good looking!

I had some problems with sloppy front belts, so i swapped the stock plastic 13t pulley with an 14t aluminum one. Works for me.

Also worth consideration are aluminum wheel hubs (.rcmart.com/3racing-wheel-adaptor-sakura-zero-thick-3racwx125pk-p-32192.html?cPath=595_1419_1566), as the stock plastic ones crack pretty fast. I destroyed all 4 of mine within my first attempt to drift. I kid you not!

I think, that are the ones I personally would consider as mandatory upgrades, from here on out everything else is just plain hop up.

Please take everything I say with a grain of salt, it could have just been me screwing things up so that those pulley and wheel hub failures eventually happened to me.

best regards

Era
__________________
Under Construction

Last edited by Erasus; 11-07-2013 at 03:21 PM.
Erasus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2013, 09:05 AM   #2157
Tech Regular
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Gilroy, CA
Posts: 477
Trader Rating: 3 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Erasus View Post
Hi guys! I am following this thread for a while now and was soaking up every drop of information provided by you people. Wanna thank you for providing so much insight and help, really appreciate it!

However, as some might notice, english is not my native language and tech talk not my forte.

To be precise, I have difficulties, understanding, why the stock D3 Knuckles cannot be used for the KPI/Posican MOD.

Can someone like MacGyuver or eunique elobarate on this a bit more? Perhaps with some pictures, pointing to the main features of those KPI-able knuckles as opposed to the stock ones?

Also, I recently came in contact with some guys in the german drift comm. who use the Eagle Racing OTA-R31 steering crank (.broadtech.hk/eagleshop/shop/ShopProductDetail.aspx?id=R31-17-LBL) with some 8mm extension arms (.broadtech.hk/eagleshop/shop/ShopProductDetail.aspx?id=3860P15-8-LBL) to great success on their D3s. It is pretty much a bolt on solution, no drilling, dremeling or filing needed and the slack is pretty much gone, according to those guys. However, I do not have any experience with this steering crank, so i wanted to ask you guys:
Has someone first hand experience with this kind of mod?

Also, what do you guys think of these MST KPI Knuckles: .maxspeedtechnology.co.uk/kpi-aluminium-knuckles-all-colours.html

Wouldnt they make the small extension arm on the knuckles obsolete?

On another topic: Is there some kind of ruleset for RC drifting regarding the use of the

So what is your stance on that?

Thanks in advance

regards

Era

Addendum:


A more upright position results in a more direct, faster, `aggressive` shock reaction, while a more angled one is smoother but slower.

Add.#2: Eunique, in the last vid you posted, there was a black BMW E46 being chased by a hachiroku. Do you happen to know what manufacturer does those E46 bodies? I just happen to find those shoddy looking HPI E46 GTR bodies...
This is the video in question:
.youtube.com/watch?v=1Q8X3MHdjbo&feature=share&list=UU7EQkgO_QY FULGuvbkviM3A
Couple of questions raised on the BMWbody....I asked ScottyDucatti about the body,,it is actually a Tamiya 318i body. He said it was hard to find and usually asks a commanding price. So good luck in the search.

As far as drag brake...it's up to you if you want to use it. Brushed motors will always have it...since it is inherent in the design and how the motor works. However, most use brushless..sensored brushless preferably for drifting, specially CS drifting, I don't use the drag brake since due to the overdriven rear wheels and ratio of the D3 I think drag brake would make it harder to control. But if it works for you, I don't see a negative to it. Unless you are in comps...then it depends if there are rules against it. But I have not heard of it being against the rules.

For the steering of R31 I've heard a lot have used it..I'm still using the D3. I have a set of those R31 steering but am going to use it on my Zero S that is counter steered.
eunique is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2013, 03:31 PM   #2158
Tech Initiate
 
Erasus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Bottrop, Germany
Posts: 26
Exclamation

Quote:
Originally Posted by eunique View Post
Couple of questions raised on the BMWbody....I asked ScottyDucatti about the body,,it is actually a Tamiya 318i body. He said it was hard to find and usually asks a commanding price. So good luck in the search.

As far as drag brake...it's up to you if you want to use it. Brushed motors will always have it...since it is inherent in the design and how the motor works. However, most use brushless..sensored brushless preferably for drifting, specially CS drifting, I don't use the drag brake since due to the overdriven rear wheels and ratio of the D3 I think drag brake would make it harder to control. But if it works for you, I don't see a negative to it. Unless you are in comps...then it depends if there are rules against it. But I have not heard of it being against the rules.

For the steering of R31 I've heard a lot have used it..I'm still using the D3. I have a set of those R31 steering but am going to use it on my Zero S that is counter steered.
Hi eunique,

Thanks for the heads up!
Didnt notice it was an E36 Bimmer...what a bummer...

When you get your Zero up and running with the R31 steering assembly, may I ask you to do a quick review on it?

Thanks in advance

regards

Era

Add.: Yeah actually I only get along with my car using the drag brake atm. When I deactivate it, the resistance in the drivetrain isnt enough to reliably lock up the tires, but they occasionaly do, depending on the surface and if there is small debris on the surface or not. With increasing drift angle they are more prone to occasionally lock up, let go, lock up again which actually makes it hard for me to predict the car`s behaviour.

So yeah, thanks to clear things up in that regard as well.
__________________
Under Construction
Erasus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2013, 10:00 PM   #2159
Tech Apprentice
 
jlavador's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 72
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Erasus View Post
Hi there!

I recommend to get a couple spare belts for each location (front, middle, rear, of course) and also a set of springs, to have some more tuning options, as the stock ones are pretty darn soft and are barely able to hold the front up!
Just make sure to buy springs that actually fit, not like me, who bought this 3Racing Spring Set For #M03M-13/LB/V2 #M03M-13/V2/OP. They are way to short!

I see you already have spur gear support plate and spur gear adaptor? Good choice!

I personally had some serious issues with the stock plastic pulleys on the D3. They kept shredding the front and center belts, until I changed them to 3Racing aluminum ones (.rcmart.com/3racing-3rac3py13-aluminum-center-pulley-gear-p-35716.html?cPath=595_1419_1566). Since then my belts hold up nicely.
Though i havent read much about it by other people, so it could be just me. They are (the stock plastic pulleys) ,however, pretty soft and dont have very high teeth compared to the aluminum ones. It seemed like they were kinda bending and the belts startet skipping teeth. One pulley even started to melt, so.... yeah.

Also nice to have is a bag of each 1mm, 2 mm and .5mm washers (.rcmart.com/3racing-aluminium-flat-washer-20mm-3racwf320pk-p-31775.html?cPath=595_1419_1566 for example).
With these you can swap the plastic shims on the lower suspension arms, which adds bling and reduces friction. You can also put these under the upper deck to gain a few more millimeters for your lipos to slide into the battery tray easily without scratching the surface of your lipos, and much more. Very handy and good looking!

I had some problems with sloppy front belts, so i swapped the stock plastic 13t pulley with an 14t aluminum one. Works for me.

Also worth consideration are aluminum wheel hubs (.rcmart.com/3racing-wheel-adaptor-sakura-zero-thick-3racwx125pk-p-32192.html?cPath=595_1419_1566), as the stock plastic ones crack pretty fast. I destroyed all 4 of mine within my first attempt to drift. I kid you not!

I think, that are the ones I personally would consider as mandatory upgrades, from here on out everything else is just plain hop up.

Please take everything I say with a grain of salt, it could have just been me screwing things up so that those pulley and wheel hub failures eventually happened to me.

best regards

Era
You were right, front belt and pulley stripped within 20 minutes, also the drive shaft pins decided to fly out luckily I found them and put them back in, other then that its pretty fun, ill be ordering the aluminum pulleys and extra belts.
__________________
Team Associated RC8.2e Factory Team ~ Tekin ~ Futaba ~ Pro-Line ~ Savox ~
3Racing Sakura D3 ~ Tamiya ~ Speed Passion ~ Speedline
jlavador is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2013, 11:42 PM   #2160
Tech Apprentice
 
FoiVoS_'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Thessaloniki/Greece
Posts: 92
Default

I have been drifting my D3 for 3 montsh or so and the belts are all at top condition ..
FoiVoS_ is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 04:18 PM.


Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net