Hot Bodies Cyclone
09-23-2009, 10:01 PM
I looking to get into a Cyclone S for racing 17.5 turn at my local track. Is there anything specific I should know about the kit as far as motor fitment? I know some motors are longer then others. I'm thinking that I'm going to go with the Novak Ballistic 17.5 motor any issues that I should be aware of? Also how does the S fare with Lipo fitments? I have an Orion 3400 mAh pack. Any mods need to be done to fit lipo packs?
09-23-2009, 10:04 PM
09-23-2009, 10:07 PM
09-24-2009, 05:18 AM
Sometimes this is a little weird to explain, but I'll give it my best shot. I think of the shims under the camber link and the shims under the suspension blocks as two totally different things. It makes it a lot easier to understand, apply, and see the results on the track.
Shims under the camber link do change roll center, but it's a much finer adjustment of roll center. Personally, I don't think you are feeling this change. When you change the shims under the camber link, most people feel the change in the camber gain characteristics. On the cyclone, more shims under the pivot (flatter link) reduces camber change, so the camber setting stays mostly the same as the car rolls, but it gives a slightly lower roll center. Generally more shims will create slightly more initial grip (especially at high speed) and produce less overall grip through the middle and exit of the corner. Fewer shims (more angled link) does the opposite, and have more camber change (more negative camber as the suspension is compressed), but also gives a slightly higher roll center. Generally a more angled camber link will have less initial grip entering the corner, but more in the middle and exit.
Now for the suspension blocks. The suspension blocks do change roll center and camber change characteristics much like the camber link shims do... but the shims under the suspension blocks have a much greater effect on roll center than it does on the camber change characteristics. More shims under the suspension blocks raises the roll center. This gives more initial grip, less roll, but less overall grip in the middle and exit of the corner. Think of it as if the car feels... stiffer. Fewer shims will lower the roll center. The result is a car that rolls more and has more overall grip in the middle and exit of the corner. It does smooth out the car entering the corner though.
I hope that wasn't too confusing. Sometimes these adjustments can have varied effects depending on the track conditions and the rest of your setup. But it is a good guideline to work from. Hope this helped!
-Korey
Shims under the camber link do change roll center, but it's a much finer adjustment of roll center. Personally, I don't think you are feeling this change. When you change the shims under the camber link, most people feel the change in the camber gain characteristics. On the cyclone, more shims under the pivot (flatter link) reduces camber change, so the camber setting stays mostly the same as the car rolls, but it gives a slightly lower roll center. Generally more shims will create slightly more initial grip (especially at high speed) and produce less overall grip through the middle and exit of the corner. Fewer shims (more angled link) does the opposite, and have more camber change (more negative camber as the suspension is compressed), but also gives a slightly higher roll center. Generally a more angled camber link will have less initial grip entering the corner, but more in the middle and exit.
Now for the suspension blocks. The suspension blocks do change roll center and camber change characteristics much like the camber link shims do... but the shims under the suspension blocks have a much greater effect on roll center than it does on the camber change characteristics. More shims under the suspension blocks raises the roll center. This gives more initial grip, less roll, but less overall grip in the middle and exit of the corner. Think of it as if the car feels... stiffer. Fewer shims will lower the roll center. The result is a car that rolls more and has more overall grip in the middle and exit of the corner. It does smooth out the car entering the corner though.
I hope that wasn't too confusing. Sometimes these adjustments can have varied effects depending on the track conditions and the rest of your setup. But it is a good guideline to work from. Hope this helped!
-Korey
Thanks for the feedback.
What I have not been considering is the camber change (gain). I have been looking at the change purely from an RC perspective and assuming that a 0.5mm change on the upper arm shims is about the same as a 0.5mm change on the pivot block shims (noting that kit setting uses 2mm shims as default for pivot block shims and upper arm shims).
In the past, just as an experiment, I have tried zero and 3mm shims on the rear upper arm shims, and the handling does what one might expect from an RC perspective.
Heres one problem and solution, that I may need to rethink based on your new feedback.
My car was pushing in a high speed sweeper and being very taily in the tight technical sections of the track. A single change, which fixed both problems, was to make the rear camber LESS THAN (more upright than) the front camber. Settings were as follows:
-- Pivot Block Front Shims = Pivot Block Rear Shims = 1.5mm all round.
-- Front Upper Arm Shim = 0.75mm
-- Rear Upper Arm Shim = 2.0mm
-- Front Camber = 2.0 degs (BEFORE front = 1.0 degs)
-- Rear Camber = 1.0 degs (BEFORE rear = 1.5 degs)
The logic goes something like the following BEFORE the change. Too much rear tire touching track on high speed sweeper (as tire rolls under), and not enough tire touching track on slower technical section (tire camber too angled and not enough of tire contacting track). Solution was to reduce rear camber (more upright) and increase front camber (more angled) just for luck. Seemed to work, but maybe there is a better setup solution.
One of the very top drivers (who also runs a TC) mentioned that he uses zero shims under the rear pivot blocks, but I am unsure about his other settings.
Track is outdoor, asphalt, low grip, 1000' length, on side of hill.
An off camber corner.
Using Sorex 32 rubbers.
I'll need to take some time to think about this more.
Any comments appreciated.
Cheers
PS: I have attached my complete setup in tabular form.
09-24-2009, 06:04 AM
Tech Apprentice
Hiya,
Im trying to find a standard carpet (rubber tyre) setup sheet for my Cyclone TC but cant seem to find any , all i can find are for the moore-speed cyclone...
Any help is apprieciated
Im trying to find a standard carpet (rubber tyre) setup sheet for my Cyclone TC but cant seem to find any , all i can find are for the moore-speed cyclone...
Any help is apprieciated
09-24-2009, 06:10 AM
Go a page or two back and you should see a attatchment from hi blow that i just asked for
09-24-2009, 06:16 AM
Tech Apprentice
09-24-2009, 06:21 AM
http://www.rctech.net/forum/6360366-post17369.html
09-24-2009, 06:25 AM
Tech Apprentice
thanks but im looking for a standard carpet setup , as a good point to start off from
09-24-2009, 08:40 AM
Tech Elite
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You asked for a standard carpet setup... why not try what was posted? Dont understand what your lookin for? Standard setup? The setup would be the newest setup to try since it was used the other weekend at a major race?
09-24-2009, 08:50 AM
Hi guys,
Just a question please, with a 6.5 motor, what is the best spur and pinion gear combination?
And is a good idea to use lightweight xray spur gear with precision racing lightweight pinion?
Just a question please, with a 6.5 motor, what is the best spur and pinion gear combination?
And is a good idea to use lightweight xray spur gear with precision racing lightweight pinion?
09-24-2009, 09:05 AM
...(And sometimes you have to fun a spec tire)........ Good luck and have fun........... Hell, you might stumble onto something that might simply be golden and you can share that with us.
09-24-2009, 09:40 AM
Shims under the camber link do change roll center, but it's a much finer adjustment of roll center. Personally, I don't think you are feeling this change. When you change the shims under the camber link, most people feel the change in the camber gain characteristics. On the cyclone, more shims under the pivot (flatter link) reduces camber change, so the camber setting stays mostly the same as the car rolls, but it gives a slightly lower roll center. Generally more shims will create slightly more initial grip (especially at high speed) and produce less overall grip through the middle and exit of the corner. Fewer shims (more angled link) does the opposite, and have more camber change (more negative camber as the suspension is compressed), but also gives a slightly higher roll center. Generally a more angled camber link will have less initial grip entering the corner, but more in the middle and exit.
Now for the suspension blocks. The suspension blocks do change roll center and camber change characteristics much like the camber link shims do... but the shims under the suspension blocks have a much greater effect on roll center than it does on the camber change characteristics. More shims under the suspension blocks raises the roll center. This gives more initial grip, less roll, but less overall grip in the middle and exit of the corner. Think of it as if the car feels... stiffer. Fewer shims will lower the roll center. The result is a car that rolls more and has more overall grip in the middle and exit of the corner. It does smooth out the car entering the corner though.
-Korey
When you change the shims under the "inner" camber link only, it changes both roll center and the camber gain at a time. but if you change both "inner" and "outer" camber link (same amount), you can change only the roll center. (let's say if you add 1mm shim under the inner camber link, you add 1mm also under the outer camber link)
For the suspension block height change, it will also change both roll center and camber change and it's much greater effect than upper camber link change like Korey said. But again, you can change just roll center only if you change suspension block height and inner camber link shims at the same time.
For example, you add 1mm shim under the suspension blocks to raise up the roll center by 1mm. Then the inner camber link also needs to be raised up by 1mm so that the camber gain (change) will not be affected with this change. If you raise up the suspension block by 1mm only (no change for the inner camber link), that means you lowered the inner camber link by 1mm so you will have more camber gain (change) as well.
Hope it helps.
09-24-2009, 10:55 AM
DCJ Next week back in stock !
09-24-2009, 12:58 PM
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I'm with ARV!......... Try it and see where it takes you. Make small changes and go from there.......... I went with other changes that suited the track at hand and found great results quickly........ Only you will decide what works. So many variables, especially tires...(And sometimes you have to fun a spec tire)........ Good luck and have fun........... Hell, you might stumble onto something that might simply be golden and you can share that with us.
...(And sometimes you have to fun a spec tire)........ Good luck and have fun........... Hell, you might stumble onto something that might simply be golden and you can share that with us.Arv.