Hot Bodies Cyclone
06-30-2009, 11:03 AM
I would also suggest you get some SJR racing tires from Speedworld. Tires can make a BIG difference in a setup.
06-30-2009, 11:41 AM
Tech Regular
I know this has been ask before but my shock leak, change all seals but still leak at the shock shaft is there a remedy for the leaky shaft.
06-30-2009, 12:54 PM
I've been has the same issue till now, use shock slim, it still the same but little better. But what I know is it's happen on almost every other brand, they always got little wet on the Spring retainer. So, I just keep an eye on it if I notice any rebound changed, just rebuild it or refill it. It just a minor issue for me now.
06-30-2009, 04:51 PM
Those blocks adjust toe in in the rear, and arm sweep up front. What they do is angle the arms forward or back depending on what end of the car you are adjusting (look at the arms/inner hinge pins from the top of the car and you'll see what I mean).
You adjust antisquat, prosquat, antidive, and kickup all by adding or removing shims from under those "toe blocks".
I'll be honest, I'm not a fan of the kit setup. I would start with either Hara's 2008 reedy race setup, or try Andy Moore's 2006 worlds winning setup. Either one of those is a good starting point for setup. You can find these on http://www.hotbodiesonline.com in the setup sheet section.
-Korey
You adjust antisquat, prosquat, antidive, and kickup all by adding or removing shims from under those "toe blocks".
I'll be honest, I'm not a fan of the kit setup. I would start with either Hara's 2008 reedy race setup, or try Andy Moore's 2006 worlds winning setup. Either one of those is a good starting point for setup. You can find these on http://www.hotbodiesonline.com in the setup sheet section.
-Korey
(1) Shims for anti-dive and anti-squat makes more sense (for any given arm, raise front block with shim, to increase value).
(2) Pivot blocks for horizontal plain adjustment also makes more sense.
(a) Toe in at rear I get.
(b) I'm not so sure about "arm sweep" at front. Obviously not front toe-in, as that is adjusted at the steering knuckle only. The "arm sweep" adjusts the whole suspension arm. The kit setup uses 2.5 degrees at front, while Atsushi Hara, Hiro Kasuya, Scott Barnes, all use 1 degree up front (they all stick with 3 degrees at rear). Is there a simple explanation of arm sweep (especialy compared to toe in)
(c) If I change arm sweep, is there anything else I must adjust as well (and why)
(3) The Atsushi Hara setup I have is from Speedworld 05/28/08. Is this the Reedy Race setup mentioned above
The kit standard setup uses 2mm shims all round. The Hara setup uses 1mm all round at front, and 1.5mm all round at rear. What is the logic behind this (as it is not changing anti-dive or squat just "height")
(4) I cut the centre from the FRP plate. Just wondering if this is a good or bad idea
Cheers
06-30-2009, 05:13 PM
Arm sweep is a pretty cool adjustment. What it does is sweep the front arms back. Technically, it changes ackerman and wheelbase as well but I just sweep that under the rug and don't think about it 
. Usually you'll just have to re check your front toe in and steering end points after you make a front arm sweep change.
Now, more arm sweep (say... 2.5 deg), will give you a slightly smoother car entering the corner, but will make the car steer a lot more around the apex of the corner. Less arm sweep (like 1 or 1.5 deg) will do the opposite. You'll have a slightly more aggressive car entering the corner, and smoother through the middle and exit of the corner.
Shims under the suspension blocks changes the roll center of the car. Generally in touring cars when you lower the hinge pins, it lowers the roll center. Raise them up, it raises the roll center.
A Higher roll center will generally create more initial grip into the corner, but less in the middle and exit. It also makes it feel as though the car transfers weight side to side much faster as well. Probably because it doesn't roll as much.
A Lower roll center will smooth out the car initially, but give more traction in the middle and exit of the corner. Generally it gives the car more roll, and makes it feel like weight transfers slower side to side.
So like in Hara's setup, he's running 1.0mm up front. The speedmind/sorex premounts have been notorious for making your car have an odd push compared to some other combos. This setup will bring back some of that steering at the apex of the corner. I run 1.0mm up front a lot, and it seems to work well. I usually always start with 1.5mm under all the suspension and toe blocks as a good baseline.
Hope that helps!!!
-Korey
. Usually you'll just have to re check your front toe in and steering end points after you make a front arm sweep change. Now, more arm sweep (say... 2.5 deg), will give you a slightly smoother car entering the corner, but will make the car steer a lot more around the apex of the corner. Less arm sweep (like 1 or 1.5 deg) will do the opposite. You'll have a slightly more aggressive car entering the corner, and smoother through the middle and exit of the corner.
Shims under the suspension blocks changes the roll center of the car. Generally in touring cars when you lower the hinge pins, it lowers the roll center. Raise them up, it raises the roll center.
A Higher roll center will generally create more initial grip into the corner, but less in the middle and exit. It also makes it feel as though the car transfers weight side to side much faster as well. Probably because it doesn't roll as much.
A Lower roll center will smooth out the car initially, but give more traction in the middle and exit of the corner. Generally it gives the car more roll, and makes it feel like weight transfers slower side to side.
So like in Hara's setup, he's running 1.0mm up front. The speedmind/sorex premounts have been notorious for making your car have an odd push compared to some other combos. This setup will bring back some of that steering at the apex of the corner. I run 1.0mm up front a lot, and it seems to work well. I usually always start with 1.5mm under all the suspension and toe blocks as a good baseline.
Hope that helps!!!
-Korey
06-30-2009, 06:25 PM
Arm sweep is a pretty cool adjustment. What it does is sweep the front arms back. Technically, it changes ackerman and wheelbase as well but I just sweep that under the rug and don't think about it . Usually you'll just have to re check your front toe in and steering end points after you make a front arm sweep change.
Now, more arm sweep (say... 2.5 deg), will give you a slightly smoother car entering the corner, but will make the car steer a lot more around the apex of the corner. Less arm sweep (like 1 or 1.5 deg) will do the opposite. You'll have a slightly more aggressive car entering the corner, and smoother through the middle and exit of the corner.
Shims under the suspension blocks changes the roll center of the car. Generally in touring cars when you lower the hinge pins, it lowers the roll center. Raise them up, it raises the roll center.
A Higher roll center will generally create more initial grip into the corner, but less in the middle and exit. It also makes it feel as though the car transfers weight side to side much faster as well. Probably because it doesn't roll as much.
A Lower roll center will smooth out the car initially, but give more traction in the middle and exit of the corner. Generally it gives the car more roll, and makes it feel like weight transfers slower side to side.
So like in Hara's setup, he's running 1.0mm up front. The speedmind/sorex premounts have been notorious for making your car have an odd push compared to some other combos. This setup will bring back some of that steering at the apex of the corner. I run 1.0mm up front a lot, and it seems to work well. I usually always start with 1.5mm under all the suspension and toe blocks as a good baseline.
Hope that helps!!!
-Korey
. Usually you'll just have to re check your front toe in and steering end points after you make a front arm sweep change. Now, more arm sweep (say... 2.5 deg), will give you a slightly smoother car entering the corner, but will make the car steer a lot more around the apex of the corner. Less arm sweep (like 1 or 1.5 deg) will do the opposite. You'll have a slightly more aggressive car entering the corner, and smoother through the middle and exit of the corner.
Shims under the suspension blocks changes the roll center of the car. Generally in touring cars when you lower the hinge pins, it lowers the roll center. Raise them up, it raises the roll center.
A Higher roll center will generally create more initial grip into the corner, but less in the middle and exit. It also makes it feel as though the car transfers weight side to side much faster as well. Probably because it doesn't roll as much.
A Lower roll center will smooth out the car initially, but give more traction in the middle and exit of the corner. Generally it gives the car more roll, and makes it feel like weight transfers slower side to side.
So like in Hara's setup, he's running 1.0mm up front. The speedmind/sorex premounts have been notorious for making your car have an odd push compared to some other combos. This setup will bring back some of that steering at the apex of the corner. I run 1.0mm up front a lot, and it seems to work well. I usually always start with 1.5mm under all the suspension and toe blocks as a good baseline.
Hope that helps!!!
-Korey
(1) The 1.0mm shims up front will lower the hinge pins and therefore lower the roll centre (relative to the kit setup). This will give more traction in the middle and exit of the corner.
The Hudy setup guide says the following when lowering the front roll centre:
-- More on-throttle steering
-- Car is less responsive
-- More weight transfer at front of car
-- Better on smooth, high grip tracks with long fast corners
(2) The 1 degree pivot block up front will sweep the front arms back less than the kit setup (at 2.5 degrees). This will give a slightly more aggressive car entering the corner, and smoother through the middle and exit of the corner.
(3) Nothing on Ackermann in the Hudy setup book. However, the T2 setup book does. I can adjust Ackermann by changing the angle of the steering rods (eg: at the connection point with the servo saver). At the inner Ackermann position (ie: servo saver point), moving steering rods more forward gives less Ackermann and moving steering rods rearward (straighter) gives more Ackermann. I notice that Hara has moved steering rods rearward (2mm shim instead of kit 4mm shim) giving more Ackermann.
(4) Does less arm sweep (1 degree) give more, or less, Ackermann
I'm gradually learning - which is good
06-30-2009, 06:58 PM
Lets see if I have got this correct.
(1) The 1.0mm shims up front will lower the hinge pins and therefore lower the roll centre (relative to the kit setup). This will give more traction in the middle and exit of the corner.
The Hudy setup guide says the following when lowering the front roll centre:
-- More on-throttle steering
-- Car is less responsive
-- More weight transfer at front of car
-- Better on smooth, high grip tracks with long fast corners
(2) The 1 degree pivot block up front will sweep the front arms back less than the kit setup (at 2.5 degrees). This will give a slightly more aggressive car entering the corner, and smoother through the middle and exit of the corner.
(3) Nothing on Ackermann in the Hudy setup book. However, the T2 setup book does. I can adjust Ackermann by changing the angle of the steering rods (eg: at the connection point with the servo saver). At the inner Ackermann position (ie: servo saver point), moving steering rods more forward gives less Ackermann and moving steering rods rearward (straighter) gives more Ackermann. I notice that Hara has moved steering rods rearward (2mm shim instead of kit 4mm shim) giving more Ackermann.
(4) Does less arm sweep (1 degree) give more, or less, Ackermann
I'm gradually learning - which is good
(1) The 1.0mm shims up front will lower the hinge pins and therefore lower the roll centre (relative to the kit setup). This will give more traction in the middle and exit of the corner.
The Hudy setup guide says the following when lowering the front roll centre:
-- More on-throttle steering
-- Car is less responsive
-- More weight transfer at front of car
-- Better on smooth, high grip tracks with long fast corners
(2) The 1 degree pivot block up front will sweep the front arms back less than the kit setup (at 2.5 degrees). This will give a slightly more aggressive car entering the corner, and smoother through the middle and exit of the corner.
(3) Nothing on Ackermann in the Hudy setup book. However, the T2 setup book does. I can adjust Ackermann by changing the angle of the steering rods (eg: at the connection point with the servo saver). At the inner Ackermann position (ie: servo saver point), moving steering rods more forward gives less Ackermann and moving steering rods rearward (straighter) gives more Ackermann. I notice that Hara has moved steering rods rearward (2mm shim instead of kit 4mm shim) giving more Ackermann.
(4) Does less arm sweep (1 degree) give more, or less, Ackermann
I'm gradually learning - which is good
Everything else you said seems sound.
-Korey
06-30-2009, 07:03 PM
I'm shear some where in this thread i have been asked. but im running a 2 cyclone s chassis with gecko tires mid to hard compound. depending on what heat we are in. i keep braking the belt gear going to the front in my super stock one. the pin is holding up find. i dont know if im just getting by belt gears or not. i wont to know if there is a alum gears i can get.
as for my other one im running 7800kv with a 26t p and a 84t s (drag car), is there any way to get more power out of it with out changing my my pinon and spur. someone told me that you can get deff belt gears with diff teeth i seen the belts with more teeth but i have not seen the gears, any the local hobby should cant seem to find any.
as for my other one im running 7800kv with a 26t p and a 84t s (drag car), is there any way to get more power out of it with out changing my my pinon and spur. someone told me that you can get deff belt gears with diff teeth i seen the belts with more teeth but i have not seen the gears, any the local hobby should cant seem to find any.
06-30-2009, 08:21 PM
I'm purple again
06-30-2009, 08:23 PM
You never left purple 
Man I am fighting temptation very hard right now. I need to raise some cash for a project and im trying my best to not sell my sedan before I even run it.
Man I am fighting temptation very hard right now. I need to raise some cash for a project and im trying my best to not sell my sedan before I even run it.
07-01-2009, 01:49 AM
-- More Ackermann for low to medium grip conditions
-- Less Ackermann for medium to high grip conditions
Why is this so
Does this always hold true
(2) The outdoor asphalt track I am running on is considered to be a low grip track.
Therefore more Ackermann should be better
(3) I also noticed that the Hara setup has the front and rear shocks more inclined than the kit setup.
(a) The Hudy setup book indicates the following for this setup:
-- Makes the spring and damping softer
-- Makes the car more progressive, giving a smoother feel and more lateral grip
-- When all 4 shocks are inclined it makes the car very easy to drive, and it feels like the car has more grip, but it is not always the fastest.
(b) The Hudy setup book also states the following when the rear is more inclined than the front:
-- Makes the car feel aggressive turning into a corner, but most of the time the car will have slightly less steering.
-- Car will have abundant lateral grip in the rear, so turning radius wont be very tight
(c) What does "more progressive" actually mean in practice
(4) The track I am running on with the TC is about 1000' in length, has a 210' straight, and has another high speed section which goes abruptly into a very tight "S" section (everyone has to stand on the brakes and drive very slowing in the first part of the "S"). It is considered a low grip track by Australian standards. Takeoff 32 tires, with medium/blue inserts are popular. The 10.5 BL are quite fast (especially with TEKIN RS Pro + Boost), and only slightly slower than the modified 4/4.5T BL class.
(5) I like the idea of running the shocks more inclined, and probably rear more inclined than front.
Does this make sense for this track
I'm also curious about other required changes that are directly related to using more inclined shocks (if any)
Many thanks in advance
07-01-2009, 08:44 AM
(1) The T2 setup book recommends the following:
-- More Ackermann for low to medium grip conditions
-- Less Ackermann for medium to high grip conditions
Why is this so
Does this always hold true
(2) The outdoor asphalt track I am running on is considered to be a low grip track.
Therefore more Ackermann should be better
(3) I also noticed that the Hara setup has the front and rear shocks more inclined than the kit setup.
(a) The Hudy setup book indicates the following for this setup:
-- Makes the spring and damping softer
-- Makes the car more progressive, giving a smoother feel and more lateral grip
-- When all 4 shocks are inclined it makes the car very easy to drive, and it feels like the car has more grip, but it is not always the fastest.
(b) The Hudy setup book also states the following when the rear is more inclined than the front:
-- Makes the car feel aggressive turning into a corner, but most of the time the car will have slightly less steering.
-- Car will have abundant lateral grip in the rear, so turning radius wont be very tight
(c) What does "more progressive" actually mean in practice
(4) The track I am running on with the TC is about 1000' in length, has a 210' straight, and has another high speed section which goes abruptly into a very tight "S" section (everyone has to stand on the brakes and drive very slowing in the first part of the "S"). It is considered a low grip track by Australian standards. Takeoff 32 tires, with medium/blue inserts are popular. The 10.5 BL are quite fast (especially with TEKIN RS Pro + Boost), and only slightly slower than the modified 4/4.5T BL class.
(5) I like the idea of running the shocks more inclined, and probably rear more inclined than front.
Does this make sense for this track
I'm also curious about other required changes that are directly related to using more inclined shocks (if any)
Many thanks in advance
-- More Ackermann for low to medium grip conditions
-- Less Ackermann for medium to high grip conditions
Why is this so
Does this always hold true
(2) The outdoor asphalt track I am running on is considered to be a low grip track.
Therefore more Ackermann should be better
(3) I also noticed that the Hara setup has the front and rear shocks more inclined than the kit setup.
(a) The Hudy setup book indicates the following for this setup:
-- Makes the spring and damping softer
-- Makes the car more progressive, giving a smoother feel and more lateral grip
-- When all 4 shocks are inclined it makes the car very easy to drive, and it feels like the car has more grip, but it is not always the fastest.
(b) The Hudy setup book also states the following when the rear is more inclined than the front:
-- Makes the car feel aggressive turning into a corner, but most of the time the car will have slightly less steering.
-- Car will have abundant lateral grip in the rear, so turning radius wont be very tight
(c) What does "more progressive" actually mean in practice
(4) The track I am running on with the TC is about 1000' in length, has a 210' straight, and has another high speed section which goes abruptly into a very tight "S" section (everyone has to stand on the brakes and drive very slowing in the first part of the "S"). It is considered a low grip track by Australian standards. Takeoff 32 tires, with medium/blue inserts are popular. The 10.5 BL are quite fast (especially with TEKIN RS Pro + Boost), and only slightly slower than the modified 4/4.5T BL class.
(5) I like the idea of running the shocks more inclined, and probably rear more inclined than front.
Does this make sense for this track
I'm also curious about other required changes that are directly related to using more inclined shocks (if any)
Many thanks in advance
07-01-2009, 11:09 AM
(1) The T2 setup book recommends the following:
-- More Ackermann for low to medium grip conditions
-- Less Ackermann for medium to high grip conditions
Why is this so
Does this always hold true
(2) The outdoor asphalt track I am running on is considered to be a low grip track.
Therefore more Ackermann should be better
(3) I also noticed that the Hara setup has the front and rear shocks more inclined than the kit setup.
(a) The Hudy setup book indicates the following for this setup:
-- Makes the spring and damping softer
-- Makes the car more progressive, giving a smoother feel and more lateral grip
-- When all 4 shocks are inclined it makes the car very easy to drive, and it feels like the car has more grip, but it is not always the fastest.
(b) The Hudy setup book also states the following when the rear is more inclined than the front:
-- Makes the car feel aggressive turning into a corner, but most of the time the car will have slightly less steering.
-- Car will have abundant lateral grip in the rear, so turning radius wont be very tight
(c) What does "more progressive" actually mean in practice
(4) The track I am running on with the TC is about 1000' in length, has a 210' straight, and has another high speed section which goes abruptly into a very tight "S" section (everyone has to stand on the brakes and drive very slowing in the first part of the "S"). It is considered a low grip track by Australian standards. Takeoff 32 tires, with medium/blue inserts are popular. The 10.5 BL are quite fast (especially with TEKIN RS Pro + Boost), and only slightly slower than the modified 4/4.5T BL class.
(5) I like the idea of running the shocks more inclined, and probably rear more inclined than front.
Does this make sense for this track
I'm also curious about other required changes that are directly related to using more inclined shocks (if any)
Many thanks in advance
-- More Ackermann for low to medium grip conditions
-- Less Ackermann for medium to high grip conditions
Why is this so
Does this always hold true
(2) The outdoor asphalt track I am running on is considered to be a low grip track.
Therefore more Ackermann should be better
(3) I also noticed that the Hara setup has the front and rear shocks more inclined than the kit setup.
(a) The Hudy setup book indicates the following for this setup:
-- Makes the spring and damping softer
-- Makes the car more progressive, giving a smoother feel and more lateral grip
-- When all 4 shocks are inclined it makes the car very easy to drive, and it feels like the car has more grip, but it is not always the fastest.
(b) The Hudy setup book also states the following when the rear is more inclined than the front:
-- Makes the car feel aggressive turning into a corner, but most of the time the car will have slightly less steering.
-- Car will have abundant lateral grip in the rear, so turning radius wont be very tight
(c) What does "more progressive" actually mean in practice
(4) The track I am running on with the TC is about 1000' in length, has a 210' straight, and has another high speed section which goes abruptly into a very tight "S" section (everyone has to stand on the brakes and drive very slowing in the first part of the "S"). It is considered a low grip track by Australian standards. Takeoff 32 tires, with medium/blue inserts are popular. The 10.5 BL are quite fast (especially with TEKIN RS Pro + Boost), and only slightly slower than the modified 4/4.5T BL class.
(5) I like the idea of running the shocks more inclined, and probably rear more inclined than front.
Does this make sense for this track
I'm also curious about other required changes that are directly related to using more inclined shocks (if any)
Many thanks in advance
As a general statement, what the xray book says is correct. But is it correct all the time? Not always. Sometimes you'll just have to try something, and forget what setup books say. I've had a lot of problems with that lately, but I'm starting to get used to it now LMAO.
Steering geometry is something I haven't messed with a whole lot on this car because I've liked the way it felt with 4mm on the center bell crank. Typically if you went to 2mm on the center bell crank, it will smooth steering out initially, but give a little more steering in the middle of the corner. This is because of the angle in the steering links. The straighter they are, the more aggressive the car will be initially, then smooth out through the rest of the corner. It can get more complicated though. It also depends on how much arm sweep you are running, and your wheelbase setting.
As a general statement, the more angled the steering links are, the smoother the car is initially, and can create a little more steering in the middle and exit of the corner. The straighter the links are, the more aggressive the car is right off center. If it feels a little too... "twitchy" you can remove some shims from the center bellcrank on our car. Different cars can react differently to this, and it all depends how the steering geometry is setup. The way I'm describing it here is what I have found on the cyclone, so it may or may not be applicable to other cars.
Hope that helps!
-Korey
Last edited by Korey Harbke; 07-01-2009 at 11:37 AM.
07-01-2009, 11:38 AM
Shock position is a very interesting thing. Something I have been testing lately is how shock position changes tend to act differently when using a spool on asphalt. I have found that when the shocks are layed down a lot in the rear, in certain conditions, will actually free up the car through the middle of the corner and on power. When I stood the shocks up from that point, the car created more forward grip, but was a little more edgy.
As a general statement, what the xray book says is correct. But is it correct all the time? Not always. Sometimes you'll just have to try something, and forget what setup books say. I've had a lot of problems with that lately, but I'm starting to get used to it now LMAO.
Steering geometry is something I haven't messed with a whole lot on this car because I've liked the way it felt with 4mm on the center bell crank. Typically if you went to 2mm on the center bell crank, it will smooth steering out initially, but give a little more steering in the middle of the corner. This is because of the angle in the steering links. The straighter they are, the more aggressive the car will be initially, then smooth out through the rest of the corner. It can get more complicated though. It also depends on how much arm sweep you are running, and your wheelbase setting.
As a general statement, the more angled the steering links are, the smoother the car is initially, and can create a little more steering in the middle and exit of the corner. The straighter the links are, the more aggressive the car is right off center. If it feels a little too... "twitchy" you can remove some shims from the center bellcrank on our car. Different cars can react differently to this, and it all depends how the steering geometry is setup. The way I'm describing it here is what I have found on the cyclone, so it may or may not be applicable to other cars.
Hope that helps!
-Korey
As a general statement, what the xray book says is correct. But is it correct all the time? Not always. Sometimes you'll just have to try something, and forget what setup books say. I've had a lot of problems with that lately, but I'm starting to get used to it now LMAO.
Steering geometry is something I haven't messed with a whole lot on this car because I've liked the way it felt with 4mm on the center bell crank. Typically if you went to 2mm on the center bell crank, it will smooth steering out initially, but give a little more steering in the middle of the corner. This is because of the angle in the steering links. The straighter they are, the more aggressive the car will be initially, then smooth out through the rest of the corner. It can get more complicated though. It also depends on how much arm sweep you are running, and your wheelbase setting.
As a general statement, the more angled the steering links are, the smoother the car is initially, and can create a little more steering in the middle and exit of the corner. The straighter the links are, the more aggressive the car is right off center. If it feels a little too... "twitchy" you can remove some shims from the center bellcrank on our car. Different cars can react differently to this, and it all depends how the steering geometry is setup. The way I'm describing it here is what I have found on the cyclone, so it may or may not be applicable to other cars.
Hope that helps!
-Korey
07-01-2009, 01:17 PM