Hot Bodies Cyclone
06-12-2008, 04:40 PM
I think you guys are overreacting.
Sure, compared with the ME the TC is not great deal on the bling factor, but i dont think it is much diferent from most of the other chassis on the market today. The truth is were spoiled by the Moore Edition.
Compared with T2'008 for example, it has steel outdrives (vs. plastic), lighter and smoother CVD's (although not as strong), alu shocks and alu pulleys. The xray does have aluminum servo mounts though.
Given this said i do think the servo mounts should be in alu, and the shock mounts should be in aluminium to (the plastic ones are extremely easy to overtighten). Or better yet, redesign the damn thing.
Also, its not really fare to compare the price with Losi or Ae for US and with shumacher for UK.
Know, what about a new mould for the hubs?!?! is it much to ask?
Sure, compared with the ME the TC is not great deal on the bling factor, but i dont think it is much diferent from most of the other chassis on the market today. The truth is were spoiled by the Moore Edition.
Compared with T2'008 for example, it has steel outdrives (vs. plastic), lighter and smoother CVD's (although not as strong), alu shocks and alu pulleys. The xray does have aluminum servo mounts though.
Given this said i do think the servo mounts should be in alu, and the shock mounts should be in aluminium to (the plastic ones are extremely easy to overtighten). Or better yet, redesign the damn thing.
Also, its not really fare to compare the price with Losi or Ae for US and with shumacher for UK.
Know, what about a new mould for the hubs?!?! is it much to ask?
Last edited by Itchy; 06-12-2008 at 04:50 PM.
06-12-2008, 04:50 PM
What is peoples deal with blinging out their touring cars. I still have the old black edition cyclone and it works great and purple does not make you faster 
. Yes I can see the servo mounts as a good thing to have as the carbon ones provide a different angle and placement of the servo when compared to the alum ones and unless you space them up you can not get the servo close to the chassis.
. Yes I can see the servo mounts as a good thing to have as the carbon ones provide a different angle and placement of the servo when compared to the alum ones and unless you space them up you can not get the servo close to the chassis.
06-12-2008, 04:54 PM
Itchy- Those are excellent points and as happens so often in this RC world I don't have the answer for all of those things. Sometimes what seems like such an easy change will result in huge changes to pricing on the other end. A redesign? Does the touring car world really want a new release already? (This is an honest question and I would love to hear everyone's feedback)
Hubs- I will be forwarding this onto our engineering dept.
06-12-2008, 05:06 PM
Well its good to get peeps different reactions on the points that have come up on this car, and do take on board the bling factor, but its not the bling thing thats bugging me, its the obvious things, like Hara has changed, which at the time of writing my criticisms of the TC I did not know he had changed, but if Hara has changed these parts, whats good for the goose is good for the gander I say, so come on HB, "don't spoil the ship for a hapeth of tar" (I think thats how the saying goes) 
seroiusly though, iron these items out, including the prob with the rear hubs, and you have a winner, in Moor hands than one
Cheers Malc
seroiusly though, iron these items out, including the prob with the rear hubs, and you have a winner, in Moor hands than one Cheers Malc
06-12-2008, 05:14 PM
I think you guys are overreacting.
Sure, compared with the ME the TC is not great deal on the bling factor, but i dont think it is much diferent from most of the other chassis on the market today. The truth is were spoiled by the Moore Edition.
Compared with T2'008 for example, it has steel outdrives (vs. plastic), lighter and smoother CVD's (although not as strong), alu shocks and alu pulleys. The xray does have aluminum servo mounts though.
Given this said i do think the servo mounts should be in alu, and the shock mounts should be in aluminium to (the plastic ones are extremely easy to overtighten). Or better yet, redesign the damn thing.
Also, its not really fare to compare the price with Losi or Ae for US and with shumacher for UK.
Know, what about a new mould for the hubs?!?! is it much to ask?
Sure, compared with the ME the TC is not great deal on the bling factor, but i dont think it is much diferent from most of the other chassis on the market today. The truth is were spoiled by the Moore Edition.
Compared with T2'008 for example, it has steel outdrives (vs. plastic), lighter and smoother CVD's (although not as strong), alu shocks and alu pulleys. The xray does have aluminum servo mounts though.
Given this said i do think the servo mounts should be in alu, and the shock mounts should be in aluminium to (the plastic ones are extremely easy to overtighten). Or better yet, redesign the damn thing.
Also, its not really fare to compare the price with Losi or Ae for US and with shumacher for UK.
Know, what about a new mould for the hubs?!?! is it much to ask?
the Cyclone TC, for the $430 price some are still trying to take advantage of us, is not worth that all manufacturing wise!!! Steel is cheap. And so is aluminum, compared to titanium and spring-steel or the exotic aircraft grade swiss aluminum stuff.
the GRP brace, is much cheaper to make than an aluminum one, or the CF version on the black Cyclones.
The cheap steel dog bones and axles are much cheaper than the heavy duty WCE MIP CVD's.
The new bulkheads, just because of the subtle ridge in it, doesnt make it more expensive. Its the same material.
The new bulkheads, its less material, and its cheaper to manufacture.
The new spool/one way- the Xray multi-diff, which uses higher grade materials on it, costs around $45. Same price fo their diffs and one-ways. Depending on the kit, its included, and the price is the same.
The new rear diff- how does using a bit larger diff rings and a better screw make this costs sky rocket? how much can the diff rings cost HB to make( cents per unit), and the same for the screw...c'mon.
people are not stupid...look at the new Tamiya TRF 416...that thing is loaded, and its sold around $430...same price Tamiya TRF 415 kits were selling for 3 yrs ago!!!
06-12-2008, 05:23 PM
Hi guys,
I wanted to provide some insight into the overall price of the car as it relates to the materials used.
First I'd just like to say that the street price on this car has dropped approx. $90 US from the Andy Moore edition which makes it much more reasonable and gives it a stronger stance in the market.
Unfortunately, it is nearly impossible to provide the same number of hop-ups at the same price so certain "non-critical" items were changed to less exotic materials to provide a vehicle that more people could afford.
It is un-fair to compare our car to a TC5 or a Losi Car as the HB TC has a much larger number of machined Aluminum parts, as well as the optional locking spool/front one-way, all of which equals a huge increase to our cost. Every tiny bit of cost incurred by the manufacture is multiplied quite a bit by the time it reaches the end consumer. While the TC might not have all the Hop ups the Moorespeed had, it does have much higher quality materials than those used on the Losi or AE rides (both of which are excellent cars) along with some new/different high performance parts which easily justify the $30 difference in price.
Hara won the Reedy race with nearly a stock car, which I know is tough to consider relevant due to his excellent driving abilities, but it does prove that the car can perform without modifications.
In the end I think our engineering/production team did an awesome job of finding ways to lower the cost while improving the performance of the car. I also value the input of everyone on here as clearly the majority of you would like to see the car reach an even more affordable price tag which I don't think we can over look.
Thank you all for your interest in HB and I wish you all happy racing,
Jeremy
I wanted to provide some insight into the overall price of the car as it relates to the materials used.
First I'd just like to say that the street price on this car has dropped approx. $90 US from the Andy Moore edition which makes it much more reasonable and gives it a stronger stance in the market.
Unfortunately, it is nearly impossible to provide the same number of hop-ups at the same price so certain "non-critical" items were changed to less exotic materials to provide a vehicle that more people could afford.
It is un-fair to compare our car to a TC5 or a Losi Car as the HB TC has a much larger number of machined Aluminum parts, as well as the optional locking spool/front one-way, all of which equals a huge increase to our cost. Every tiny bit of cost incurred by the manufacture is multiplied quite a bit by the time it reaches the end consumer. While the TC might not have all the Hop ups the Moorespeed had, it does have much higher quality materials than those used on the Losi or AE rides (both of which are excellent cars) along with some new/different high performance parts which easily justify the $30 difference in price.
Hara won the Reedy race with nearly a stock car, which I know is tough to consider relevant due to his excellent driving abilities, but it does prove that the car can perform without modifications.
In the end I think our engineering/production team did an awesome job of finding ways to lower the cost while improving the performance of the car. I also value the input of everyone on here as clearly the majority of you would like to see the car reach an even more affordable price tag which I don't think we can over look.
Thank you all for your interest in HB and I wish you all happy racing,
Jeremy
thanks for paying attention to our concerns...I know that soon HB TC will defenitely be a great car sales wise because HB will work with its consumers on fairer prices...you''ve already changed and have dropped quite a bit accordingly, which is awesome, and sales have climbed because of it.
Its just that right now for those that have a WCE, its really not worth it, since performance wise, the only things really needed is the new diff, and maybe the GRP brace, and possibly the new suspension arms...but going to the TC from a WCE is downgrading value wise...its better to just wait for the updated TC Hara Edition which will probably come out after the worlds or early next year, which will come with the good CVDs, and aluminum diff, etc...
But for some one looking for a new car, getting the TC is good, but not paying $400+ for it.
Speedtech Rc is selling them at $379, and now Stormer is listing them at $379 also, which is nice. That's more like it.
And that shows that HB is listening, which is great.
06-12-2008, 05:43 PM
yyhayyim- I understand your concerns and I appreciate your input, but I think there are a few things that are being overlooked.
First, the TC street price is $380, not $430. The $430 price was placed earlier by a distributor in Hong Kong, and I noticed you're from Florida so you'll be able to find the $380 price.
(Note: I had written this before seeing your latest post. I apologize for leaving this in here but I just wanted to remind people that this is what the US has for an estimated street price)
With regards to the multi-diff: While it may only cost $45 dollars to purchase in a hobby shop it costs much more to design and then put in the kit than a simple front diff or front one way would have. This difference in cost must then be multiplied by 5 to show the approx. change in cost to the end consumer....this is how "small" changes end up changing the street price of any vehicle by any company dramatically.
The XRay cars have excellent materials, and I can't explain my feelings on why they are able to do what they do at those prices without speaking over my head so I'm going to refrain. All I can say is if we tried to do what they do at that price we would surely go out of business.
Xray makes great cars, but they're doing what they have to-to maintain reasonable prices as well. They do have certain areas that are plastic where ours are aluminum (such as the shocks) in an effort to keep prices down.
After reading your last post I must say that I agree with you. Those with Moore-speed cars don't necessarily need to run out and purchase a TC as they can easily continue running what they have or upgrade a couple of parts to bring the car to above TC specs.
My main concern is that people realize that we are not looking to rip them off. I know from being at a few companies that are profit margins are no different than others, we've just had cars that were a bit too high priced. This is something that we are looking at in depth and we are always working towards increased performance/durability at a more affordable price.
Thank you to everyone that runs HB cars and also to everyone voicing their opinions as well. Without you, we couldn't improve.
Jeremy
First, the TC street price is $380, not $430. The $430 price was placed earlier by a distributor in Hong Kong, and I noticed you're from Florida so you'll be able to find the $380 price.
(Note: I had written this before seeing your latest post. I apologize for leaving this in here but I just wanted to remind people that this is what the US has for an estimated street price)
With regards to the multi-diff: While it may only cost $45 dollars to purchase in a hobby shop it costs much more to design and then put in the kit than a simple front diff or front one way would have. This difference in cost must then be multiplied by 5 to show the approx. change in cost to the end consumer....this is how "small" changes end up changing the street price of any vehicle by any company dramatically.
The XRay cars have excellent materials, and I can't explain my feelings on why they are able to do what they do at those prices without speaking over my head so I'm going to refrain. All I can say is if we tried to do what they do at that price we would surely go out of business.
Xray makes great cars, but they're doing what they have to-to maintain reasonable prices as well. They do have certain areas that are plastic where ours are aluminum (such as the shocks) in an effort to keep prices down.
After reading your last post I must say that I agree with you. Those with Moore-speed cars don't necessarily need to run out and purchase a TC as they can easily continue running what they have or upgrade a couple of parts to bring the car to above TC specs.
My main concern is that people realize that we are not looking to rip them off. I know from being at a few companies that are profit margins are no different than others, we've just had cars that were a bit too high priced. This is something that we are looking at in depth and we are always working towards increased performance/durability at a more affordable price.
Thank you to everyone that runs HB cars and also to everyone voicing their opinions as well. Without you, we couldn't improve.
Jeremy
06-12-2008, 05:48 PM
Thanks for the answer Jeremy.
I don't think a new car is needed. But since you are so receptive, here is my list of stuff i would love to see:
- new system to mount the shocks. My favorite is the xray: easy to mount and dismount and not prone to get slack.
- new ackerman ajustment system. Something that doesnt require the dismount the steering column to do that.
- optional roll center spacers. Im thinking something like a 'U' shaped spacer that allows a quick RC change without the need completely unscrew the toe blocks
I understand some of the things listed would compromise the final price. The shock for example would require new plastic moulds. But they could be included in a future... Cyclone TC HARA WC Champion Edition
The other pieces can be sold as regular aluminium optionals
Regarding the new release or not question...
- People will complain if too much optional 'must have' parts are released
- People will complain there is a new car every year
- People will also complain if there is no evolution
There is a fine line between this options and some will never be happy. But i think HB as done the great job in the past years. The cyclone is proving to be stable but competitive. I wouldnt do anything diferent
I don't think a new car is needed. But since you are so receptive, here is my list of stuff i would love to see:
- new system to mount the shocks. My favorite is the xray: easy to mount and dismount and not prone to get slack.
- new ackerman ajustment system. Something that doesnt require the dismount the steering column to do that.
- optional roll center spacers. Im thinking something like a 'U' shaped spacer that allows a quick RC change without the need completely unscrew the toe blocks
I understand some of the things listed would compromise the final price. The shock for example would require new plastic moulds. But they could be included in a future... Cyclone TC HARA WC Champion Edition
The other pieces can be sold as regular aluminium optionals
Regarding the new release or not question...
- People will complain if too much optional 'must have' parts are released
- People will complain there is a new car every year
- People will also complain if there is no evolution
There is a fine line between this options and some will never be happy. But i think HB as done the great job in the past years. The cyclone is proving to be stable but competitive. I wouldnt do anything diferent
06-12-2008, 05:52 PM
Hi Jeremy,
thanks for paying attention to our concerns...I know that soon HB TC will defenitely be a great car sales wise because HB will work with its consumers on fairer prices...you''ve already changed and have dropped quite a bit accordingly, which is awesome, and sales have climbed because of it.
Its just that right now for those that have a WCE, its really not worth it, since performance wise, the only things really needed is the new diff, and maybe the GRP brace, and possibly the new suspension arms...but going to the TC from a WCE is downgrading value wise...its better to just wait for the updated TC Hara Edition which will probably come out after the worlds or early next year, which will come with the good CVDs, and aluminum diff, etc...
But for some one looking for a new car, getting the TC is good, but not paying $400+ for it.
Speedtech Rc is selling them at $379, and now Stormer is listing them at $379 also, which is nice. That's more like it. And that shows that HB is listening, which is great.
thanks for paying attention to our concerns...I know that soon HB TC will defenitely be a great car sales wise because HB will work with its consumers on fairer prices...you''ve already changed and have dropped quite a bit accordingly, which is awesome, and sales have climbed because of it.
Its just that right now for those that have a WCE, its really not worth it, since performance wise, the only things really needed is the new diff, and maybe the GRP brace, and possibly the new suspension arms...but going to the TC from a WCE is downgrading value wise...its better to just wait for the updated TC Hara Edition which will probably come out after the worlds or early next year, which will come with the good CVDs, and aluminum diff, etc...
But for some one looking for a new car, getting the TC is good, but not paying $400+ for it.
Speedtech Rc is selling them at $379, and now Stormer is listing them at $379 also, which is nice. That's more like it.
And that shows that HB is listening, which is great.I have a TC and love it... it's not perfect but no car is... I personally think it's a great deal for the money...
06-12-2008, 06:08 PM
Oh....dont even begin to compare the Cyclone TC to Xray '008 as far as quality of parts go...Xray's '008 spring steel driveshafts all around, spring steel turn buckles, their aero aluminum t06 swiss stuff, are all precision hand ground and hand made as well as CNCed, and the costs of manufacturing them are very expensive and still the cars are in the $480 range. Its a luxury car, with only the finest materials...no one denies that.
All considered, i dont find the cyclone more expensive to run, and i seem to like its road manners a litle better
06-12-2008, 08:09 PM
yyhayyim- I understand your concerns and I appreciate your input, but I think there are a few things that are being overlooked.
First, the TC street price is $380, not $430. The $430 price was placed earlier by a distributor in Hong Kong, and I noticed you're from Florida so you'll be able to find the $380 price.
First, the TC street price is $380, not $430. The $430 price was placed earlier by a distributor in Hong Kong, and I noticed you're from Florida so you'll be able to find the $380 price.
re listing their TC's at, and its so unfortunate...it seems like trying to take advantage...but in the end, they'll end up paying for it and have to come down to the 380 mark if they want to sell some kits.
$380 is defenitely much better price and its a good deal for anyone who doesnt already own a Cyclone.
06-12-2008, 08:13 PM
And yes, the TC is great, but if you a WCE, no real need to sell that and get a TC...for now. If you dont have a Cyclone, and the TC is your first Cyclone, then yes, getting one now is nice, especially since the price has dropped to around $380.
06-12-2008, 08:14 PM
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Its great to know that $380 should be the street price...'cause someone's gotta let Towerhobbies, Horizon, and other big sellers out there that they gotta stop trying to rip people off at $430+ prices. That's what they
re listing their TC's at, and its so unfortunate...it seems like trying to take advantage...but in the end, they'll end up paying for it and have to come down to the 380 mark if they want to sell some kits.
$380 is defenitely much better price and its a good deal for anyone who doesnt already own a Cyclone.
re listing their TC's at, and its so unfortunate...it seems like trying to take advantage...but in the end, they'll end up paying for it and have to come down to the 380 mark if they want to sell some kits.
$380 is defenitely much better price and its a good deal for anyone who doesnt already own a Cyclone.
They won't ever pay for it since they each have exclusive brands that consumers want so they have the shops and consumers hostage with no real way to change that.
06-12-2008, 09:43 PM
06-12-2008, 09:46 PM
All I can say is WOW. This car was so dialed yesterday that I TQ'ed and won 10.5 at Norcal. The cheap fix for the rear toe in worked as well. Here's the break down for what to do.
Tamiya 416 rear hubs and the rear outter hinge pins is all you need and a reamer. The hot bodies rear outter hinge pins are 2.5mm and you need to ream the outter part of the arm to 2.6mm to fit the Tamiya hinge pins. Once you do this your toe in worries are over. (Insert clapping and rejoice) Now here's the catch... but it's a good one if you ask me. The Tamiya rear hub is shorter in height than the hotbodies so you will have to use shims in order to get it back to regular height. I added 3mm of shims. The last catch is that the holes on the Tamiya hub are inbetween the what we use for hotbodies. On the Hotbodies we always use the inner hole on the hub. The Tamiya hub has their hole inside the hotbodies inner hole and the Tamiya outter hole is inbetween the Hotbodies inner and outter hole (did I lose anyone in the explaination) So what I ran was the Tamiya ouuter hole (middle of the Hotbodies holes) The car was even better than it was for the Reedy race. I also made some spring changes and moved the rear shocks out a couple of holes.
This set up was dialed and Norcal yesterday. It's definately one of the better set up's I have run on the car. Scotty would be proud of me
If you were at Norcal yesterday you saw the Black Hara in action
I also palyed around with bodies yesterday and really liked the all purpose stratus.....remember that body? The speedworld cup is gonna be fun. The complete set up I ran will be posted today for sure. I only have one thing to do with my kids and other than watching the playoff game I have no other plans as of right now.
Tamiya 416 rear hubs and the rear outter hinge pins is all you need and a reamer. The hot bodies rear outter hinge pins are 2.5mm and you need to ream the outter part of the arm to 2.6mm to fit the Tamiya hinge pins. Once you do this your toe in worries are over. (Insert clapping and rejoice) Now here's the catch... but it's a good one if you ask me. The Tamiya rear hub is shorter in height than the hotbodies so you will have to use shims in order to get it back to regular height. I added 3mm of shims. The last catch is that the holes on the Tamiya hub are inbetween the what we use for hotbodies. On the Hotbodies we always use the inner hole on the hub. The Tamiya hub has their hole inside the hotbodies inner hole and the Tamiya outter hole is inbetween the Hotbodies inner and outter hole (did I lose anyone in the explaination) So what I ran was the Tamiya ouuter hole (middle of the Hotbodies holes) The car was even better than it was for the Reedy race. I also made some spring changes and moved the rear shocks out a couple of holes.
This set up was dialed and Norcal yesterday. It's definately one of the better set up's I have run on the car. Scotty would be proud of me
If you were at Norcal yesterday you saw the Black Hara in action I also palyed around with bodies yesterday and really liked the all purpose stratus.....remember that body? The speedworld cup is gonna be fun. The complete set up I ran will be posted today for sure. I only have one thing to do with my kids and other than watching the playoff game I have no other plans as of right now. I'm a happy camper...