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Old 11-17-2008, 01:58 PM   #14506
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Originally Posted by mac853 View Post
Excuse me, there are just very little kind, they convince me as they are just drifters!
well that just sucks..

the only other place that would have a good amount of info about the "S" chassis would be the USVTA thread - there are a lot of guys running that chassis in that class
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Old 11-18-2008, 06:54 AM   #14507
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Originally Posted by Korey Harbke View Post
Honestly, I never use scales to detweak my car. I weigh each individual electronic component I put in the car though, and add weight accordingly to balance those things out.

But to actually un tweak the suspension, I take the shocks off and loosen all the bulkhead screws and upper deck screws to let eveyrthing relax. Then I plop my car on my new PPD Billet Tweak plate as it bolts the chassis to a flat peice of aluminum. After the car is bolted down I tighten all the screws back up again. You can accomplish the same thing by pressing down on the chassis when the upper deck screws are loose, but I think the PPD billet plate is a very easy, and effective way to untweak the chassis (as long as there are no bent parts).

Then I will measure the shocks, and make sure they are the same left to right. Then I will measure rebound and make sure they are the same left to right. Then I put the shocks aside and make sure the arms have the same amount of downtravel left to right. At that point I'klll put the shocks back on, and put everything in my car except the body to set ride height and do some final tweaks on the preload to make sure everything sits right. I always use the tip on an xacto knife to lift up the chassis from the bottom along the centerline to make sure the left and right tires lift up at the same time. Then I do the front the same way.

Korey

fully agree with the above - basic assumption before adjusting spring preload is that the car is "flat", otherwise it's a loss of time.

so you are basically using a metal plate which allows you to clamp the car on to keep it 100% flat while screwing on the top deck? Smart... never thought about it, I always asked a buddy to hold it on the pit board for me while I turned the allen wrench. Where can these boards be bought, please?

I would also like to get your perspective re rebound.

I just cannot understand how rebound (as set with the membrane / shock fill) can have any influence on the handling - my understanding is, the little force the membrane has should be completely washed away by the spring stiffness when the shock is compressed. Likewise, when the shock is "depressed" (english???) ie the inside wheel lifts or the car wheel travels through a "rut", that same little force is not enough to keep the wheel planted on the track for the split second when it should. So why do all setup sheets focus on rebound? Please note that I understand adjusting rebound with foam discs, as this creates substantial stiffness once the (closed-cell) foam compresses...

Thanks for shedding some light on this - I asked earlier, but no-one dared to answer, which leads me to think that, as per most "black magic" setup tricks, people love to talk and exchange advice without really understanding the fundamentals... the wonders of the internet, if you want

Paul
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Old 11-18-2008, 08:53 AM   #14508
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Gotta love the internet, so here's my $0.02 worth:

You're right, shock rebound has nothing to do with adding to the spring rate.
What it does is slightly reduce the damping on the rebound stroke.

If you have no rebound at all, the damping will be relatively equal between the compression and the rebound stroke. When you push the shaft in and back out at the same speed, it should feel the same.
But when you add rebound, the effective damping during compression will be slightly higher, and the rebound damping will be slightly lower. Pushing the shaft in should feel harder to do at the same speed (especially during the top half of the stroke) than pulling it back out.
With this configuration the spring will return the wheel back down quicker.

I also experimented with the 2-stage pistons at one point. But they produce an extreme difference between compression/rebound damping, which I found to be overkill.
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Old 11-18-2008, 10:59 AM   #14509
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http://www.ppdbillet.com/hb_cyclone.html

Thats where I get my tweak plate. They also have some lipo weight ballast accessories as well.

Pete did a good job on explaining rebound. How it affects the car... I find it usually effects how quick the car comes back to center. So on tight, high grip tracks where you need the extra dampening going into the corner, when comming out of the corner the car will flatten out quicker.

The opposite is true with less rebound. I like less rebound on smoother, longer, sweeping tracks. It seems to make the car more balanced through the long sweepers and such.

-Korey
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Old 11-18-2008, 11:15 AM   #14510
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I love the Internet but it wouldn't help without you guys taking the time to help us understand

How much rebound is to much ???
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Old 11-18-2008, 11:27 AM   #14511
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Just depends on your track conditions. I dont pay too much attention to it to be perfectly honest. I do know when I build my shocks, they come out at 75-100% rebound. I just make sure they are all the same. I do notice if I havent rebuilt my shocks, they rebound less. Then I just clean them out, replace the oil and any other parts if need be.

-Korey
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Old 11-18-2008, 11:37 AM   #14512
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It's some nice info on setting rebound on the Tamiya 416 thread. I plan on trying it out when I rebuild my car tomorrow for this weekends carpet run.
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Old 11-18-2008, 03:06 PM   #14513
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I'm totally stealing that idea with the silicone tubing. I never thought of that!!!

-Korey
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Old 11-18-2008, 03:15 PM   #14514
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I'm totally stealing that idea with the silicone tubing. I never thought of that!!!

-Korey
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Old 11-18-2008, 05:43 PM   #14515
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It's some nice info on setting rebound on the Tamiya 416 thread. I plan on trying it out when I rebuild my car tomorrow for this weekends carpet run.
Where are u racing carpet?
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Old 11-18-2008, 08:56 PM   #14516
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Where are u racing carpet?
We are all going to Chico this weekend. Gonna be a blast.
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Old 11-18-2008, 09:37 PM   #14517
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We are all going to Chico this weekend. Gonna be a blast.
Ohh nice!

good luck!!
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Old 11-18-2008, 10:06 PM   #14518
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Ohh nice!

good luck!!
I plan on seeking revenge on all Tamiya's this weekend. Norcal 416's will feel my pain
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Old 11-19-2008, 01:28 AM   #14519
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RcPete:
thanks for the explanation - I read it many times and try to understand it in my little mind... maybe I'm missing something (and I prolly am as you seem to be a sensible person ) but I don't understand how damping, which is created by the oil going through the piston holes, can be affected by the membrane "preload"... I guess I'll have to think about it more

Korey:
Billet plates - awesome product, unfortunately the price (esp as I'm living overseas) is a killer for me. looks bloody gorgeous though. Thanks for the link

Now going to the 416 thread

Paul
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Old 11-19-2008, 04:52 AM   #14520
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Hey

Another question

I dunno if somebode ask that before, but is it ok to use Tamiya 3 hole pistons in HB Cyclone TC shocks?

I measured those Tamiya and HB pistons last night and it look like Tamiya piston was smaller dia that HB one. I use original 2 hole pistons at the moment, but think some options to try

Just make sure if it doesn`t matter..
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