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Old 10-02-2008, 06:54 AM   #13996
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Hey Korey

I just measured those driveshafts side by side and they are exatcly same calibers

One thing came my mind. If i buy option # 61086 spool set for my TC, can i use #67731 plastic axle cups for that?

Those may better for driveshafts like my Tamiya 415 Mre use.
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Old 10-02-2008, 10:04 AM   #13997
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Originally Posted by bmmer701 View Post
hi korey i just want to ask with this problem also. what will be the effect of not changing the springs but laying down your shock position? (it will make the rear softer too right? or wrong) thanks
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Originally Posted by Korey Harbke View Post
You can try going down to a softer spring to create a little more rear grip. I've been testing something the last few times I was at the track though...

In high speed corners where you turn one direction, then turn the other way a number of times, it really jacks weight around the car. Sometimes our cars aren't setup to come back to center (not rolled over) quite as fast as we like. When all the weight is transferred to one side and it doesn't spring back, or "transition" quick enough, the car can get unstable and spin out a little erratically.

So to solve this, you can try going to a little thicker swaybars. I know it sounds weird, but usually when I put thicker swaybars all around on my car is made the car turn in a little harder, but actually made the car more stable throughout the corner at the same time.

So, try going softer on the rear spring and see if that helps. If it doesn't, then go back to what you had before and try thicker swaybars all around. It'll help settle the weight transfer down a bit.

Also check your tires. I notice when my tires are getting a little worn out my car will do some weird things like you describe. If you continue to have problems, post your setup and we can take a look at it again.

-Korey
As bmmer701 said , is it possible to lay down the shocks a bit more instead of changing to softer spring because i will have to get new spring , order them wait for them and it take longer . So is it possible to lay the shocks a litle more.
When you say thicker sway bar , do you mean rear only or front and rear because im already running medium sway bar front and soft sway bar rear.
Is it possible to lower roll center instead of putting thicker sway bar , for the moment im running 2mm front and 2mm rear as roll center between the upper bulkhead and inner pivotmount , should i change to 2mm front and 1.5 mm rear or is it better to keep roll center as it is and put thicker sway bar.
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Old 10-02-2008, 10:15 AM   #13998
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Cruisaaja- Awesome! I'd run them them There are so many different versions of the driveshaft components, even I get confused with them sometimes.

Cyclone Speed and bmmer701- Laying down the shocks does "soften" the back end of the car, but it also changes how progressive the suspension is. It will also slow the overall transition from left to right that Cyclone Speed was referring too. It is worth a try though. Sometimes what I do if I'm not sure what will make the car better, I will change something. If that made if better, then I will continue to adjust that setting in that direction. If it made it worse, I go the opposite direction (ie, laying down shock, then if it made it better, lay it down more. If it didn't, then stand them up)

This is a good practice to do sometimes. Different track conditions can make certain changes of the car do the opposite of what you might expect. I can never give you an exact representation of what something will do, because it largely depends on how much grip the track has, and even driving style to a certain extent.

The roll center... That could be the problem. At my home track I always noticed my car felt a little weird with 2mm of shims under all the toe/pivot blocks. When I went to 1.5mm all around the car was a totally different animal. When we have so many shims under those blocks it makes the car turn in nice and crisp, but it bleeds too much grip off in the middle of the corner. So it could give you that feel of "washing out" or "really loose". When you but fewer shims under there, it actually makes the car generate more mechanical grip, especially in the middle of the corner .

Hopefully that all made sense guys.

-Korey
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Old 10-02-2008, 10:18 AM   #13999
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Oh, the swaybars! Just go one bar thicker all around. I tested this when the grip was REALLY high though. What would happen the car would roll so much, that it would dump over too much. So when I needed to transition to the opposite direction it would make the car really weird an unstable.

Try the roll center changes and the spring/shock change on the back first though. I'm pretty sure those will be more noticable change than the swaybar, especially if your track is low grip.

-Korey
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Old 10-02-2008, 11:35 AM   #14000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Korey Harbke View Post
Cruisaaja- Awesome! I'd run them them There are so many different versions of the driveshaft components, even I get confused with them sometimes.

Cyclone Speed and bmmer701- Laying down the shocks does "soften" the back end of the car, but it also changes how progressive the suspension is. It will also slow the overall transition from left to right that Cyclone Speed was referring too. It is worth a try though. Sometimes what I do if I'm not sure what will make the car better, I will change something. If that made if better, then I will continue to adjust that setting in that direction. If it made it worse, I go the opposite direction (ie, laying down shock, then if it made it better, lay it down more. If it didn't, then stand them up)

This is a good practice to do sometimes. Different track conditions can make certain changes of the car do the opposite of what you might expect. I can never give you an exact representation of what something will do, because it largely depends on how much grip the track has, and even driving style to a certain extent.

The roll center... That could be the problem. At my home track I always noticed my car felt a little weird with 2mm of shims under all the toe/pivot blocks. When I went to 1.5mm all around the car was a totally different animal. When we have so many shims under those blocks it makes the car turn in nice and crisp, but it bleeds too much grip off in the middle of the corner. So it could give you that feel of "washing out" or "really loose". When you but fewer shims under there, it actually makes the car generate more mechanical grip, especially in the middle of the corner .

Hopefully that all made sense guys.

-Korey
Quote:
Originally Posted by Korey Harbke View Post
Oh, the swaybars! Just go one bar thicker all around. I tested this when the grip was REALLY high though. What would happen the car would roll so much, that it would dump over too much. So when I needed to transition to the opposite direction it would make the car really weird an unstable.

Try the roll center changes and the spring/shock change on the back first though. I'm pretty sure those will be more noticable change than the swaybar, especially if your track is low grip.

-Korey
my track is indeed low grip.
But i didnt really understand , should i move from 2mm roll center to 3mm or should i go from 2mm to 1.5mm roll center?
I got this question its abit off topic but i thought that the probleme might be because of the tyres, how do you set up your tyes before the race , i do like this : put some tyre additive leave it for 10 minutes then swipe it with an old t-shirt then put the tyre warmers on at 60deg celsius.Is this the right way , how do you do .
Because the probleme is naybee because of the tyres.
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Old 10-02-2008, 12:57 PM   #14001
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try removing all shims underneathe your pivot blocks, then try adding 1mm shims under the front blocks.
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Old 10-02-2008, 01:41 PM   #14002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B18C Turbo View Post
try removing all shims underneathe your pivot blocks, then try adding 1mm shims under the front blocks.
well i did try have this in the begining but i dint like really like it , when i talk about roll center i mean then number of mm between the upper bulkheads and the inner pivot , not the number of mm under the pivot blocks.
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Old 10-02-2008, 02:37 PM   #14003
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You'll want to go to 1.5mm of shims under the blocks, instead of 2mm. Currently I have 1.0mm under the front toe/pivot blocks, and 1.5mm under the rear toe/pivots blocks. That tends to make the car have more steering with the front having a lower roll center than the rear, especially in the middle of the corner. But, I would just start with 1.5mm of shims all the way around. It's where everyone on the team starts out.


As far as camber links, I run 2mm shims under the inner pivots both front and rear. My local track is EXTREMELY high grip like I have said before. For most people, 2mm front, and 1mm rear is good.

Fewer shims under the inner pivot of the camber link, angles the camber link more. This will create more mechanical grip in the middle and exit of the corner. The opposite is true when you make that camber link less angled (more shims); it free's up that end of the car in the middle and exit of the corner. We tend to angle the camber link more in the rear than the front to to make the car a little more stable, so that might help you out too.

Tire prep depends on the compound being used. Typically I always "bake" the traction compound in. So I apply it, then put the tire warmers on. I don't wipe the tires before I put the warmers on. The pours of the tires open up as they get heated, and that allows the traction compound to soak in, and do it's job better. I usually set my Tire Warmers to 60 deg C, and warm for 10-15 min. After that, just wipe them off really good with a dry towel, and hit the track!

Hope that clears some questions up. Feel free to ask questions guys. I might not be on here all the time like I was (in school again) but I'll try my best to help everyone out.

-Korey
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Old 10-02-2008, 11:49 PM   #14004
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OK , so i will first try with the schocks laying them , if it doesnt help i would put 1mm under front pivot block and 1.5 under rear pivot block.
Then il put 2mm under front camber link and 1.5 under rear camber link .Il try all this .
But i if i lay the rear shock wouldnt my car have less on throtle steering because the rear will compresse under acceleration and have less steering ?
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Old 10-03-2008, 09:23 AM   #14005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyclone speed View Post
OK , so i will first try with the schocks laying them , if it doesnt help i would put 1mm under front pivot block and 1.5 under rear pivot block.
Then il put 2mm under front camber link and 1.5 under rear camber link .Il try all this .
But i if i lay the rear shock wouldnt my car have less on throtle steering because the rear will compresse under acceleration and have less steering ?
hi cyclone speed based on my experience yeah i had less steering when it was laid down. from #2 to #5 in the shock position in the rear i had steering. Though my car is still understeer hehehe and someone told me when i was still starting to setup the less shims under the camber link = more grip (if your track is low grip) you might want to try that out.

hi korey maybe you can help me with my setup i need more on power steering hehe... just a question in your case, if you lay your shocks in front? what does your car feel? thanks


josh
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Old 10-03-2008, 10:14 AM   #14006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmmer701 View Post
hi cyclone speed based on my experience yeah i had less steering when it was laid down. from #2 to #5 in the shock position in the rear i had steering. Though my car is still understeer hehehe and someone told me when i was still starting to setup the less shims under the camber link = more grip (if your track is low grip) you might want to try that out.

hi korey maybe you can help me with my setup i need more on power steering hehe... just a question in your case, if you lay your shocks in front? what does your car feel? thanks


josh
hi bmmer701 , i hope i can help you out but how much droop do you have , over ride height, in the begining i had 4mm front and 5mm rear and i went lower .now im at 2mm front and 3mm rear wich has alot of on power steering ( i can go full speed in the sweeper at my local track, and its a short sweeper so i have alot of on power steering)any question , you can ask mee also with what i run because i do have alot , alot of on power steering.
Thanks guys , thanks Korey and bmmer701 for your help i will try everything , and if i need any help il ask you . thanks againg guys
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Old 10-03-2008, 10:48 AM   #14007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyclone speed View Post
hi bmmer701 , i hope i can help you out but how much droop do you have , over ride height, in the begining i had 4mm front and 5mm rear and i went lower .now im at 2mm front and 3mm rear wich has alot of on power steering ( i can go full speed in the sweeper at my local track, and its a short sweeper so i have alot of on power steering)any question , you can ask mee also with what i run because i do have alot , alot of on power steering.
Thanks guys , thanks Korey and bmmer701 for your help i will try everything , and if i need any help il ask you . thanks againg guys
i'm not sure but i think my droop over ride height in front is 2mm and in the rear is 4mm.

here's my setup
front
#1 shock position 35 shock oil 3 holes hara black
2.75 shims in front front of pivot block (2.5 pivot block)
1.0mm under FF blocks
1.5mm under FR blocks
2.0mm under the camber link #2 position (the inner one)
2mm ackerman
camber 3.5
ride height 5mm
droop 7
no stabs

rear
#5 shock position 30 shock oil hara black
2.75 shims in rear rear of pivot block (1.5 pivot block)
1.5mm under RF and RR pivot blocks
1.0mm under the camber link #2 position (inner one)
.75mm in shims in front of the rear hub
2mm in rear of the hub
camber 2
ride height 5mm
droop 5mm
no stabs

using sorex 36 tires and soft inserts.

i'm having understeer onpower and a little bit understeer off power

hehe i'm thinking of standing the shocks in front, or stand the shocks in the rear 1 hole, or just put the 1 deg rear toe hehehe...

btw, i'm running mod 3.5 orion motor and orion 4800 lipo.

Last edited by bmmer701; 10-03-2008 at 11:16 AM.
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Old 10-03-2008, 11:29 AM   #14008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmmer701 View Post
i'm not sure but i think my droop over ride height in front is 2mm and in the rear is 4mm.

here's my setup
front
#1 shock position 35 shock oil 3 holes hara black
2.75 shims in front front of pivot block (2.5 pivot block)
1.0mm under FF blocks
1.5mm under FR blocks
2.0mm under the camber link #2 position (the inner one)
2mm ackerman
camber 3.5
ride height 5mm
droop 7
no stabs

rear
#5 shock position 30 shock oil hara black
2.75 shims in rear rear of pivot block (1.5 pivot block)
1.5mm under RF and RR pivot blocks
1.0mm under the camber link #2 position (inner one)
.75mm in shims in front of the rear hub
2mm in rear of the hub
camber 2
ride height 5mm
droop 5mm
no stabs

using sorex 36 tires and soft inserts.

i'm having understeer onpower and a little bit understeer off power

hehe i'm thinking of standing the shocks in front, or stand the shocks in the rear 1 hole, or just put the 1 deg rear toe hehehe...

btw, i'm running mod 3.5 orion motor and orion 4800 lipo.
Thats my set up

front:
number 2 shock position and 40w oil , 3hole piston.
1mm under FF block
1mm under FR block (what korey recomended me and its much better then before)
2mm under camber link , 1st position
camber , 1.5
ride height 5mm
droop over ride height 2mm
ackerman 4mm

rear:
number 3 shock position and 40w oils 3 hole piston
1.5mm under RF block
1.5mm under RR block
1mm under camber link , 1st position(what Korey told me wich is also better then before, my rear end isnt tail fishy as before)
camber 1.5
ride height 5.5mm
droop over ride height 3mm

I run 5.5 BL , 5 cell .
Hope that helps.
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Old 10-03-2008, 11:36 AM   #14009
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Also , forgot to say that i ran my car with 1mm under FF and FR blocks instead of 1.5mm and the car did have a bit more steering in corners.
I also tried 1mm under rear camber link wich did help alot , before i had 2mm and the rear end was very like a fish tail , and when i put 1mm it did help alot .
But my probleme know is that in corner exit under acceleration , my car has the rear end a litle loose .Less then before ( now im running 1mm under camber link instead of 2mm) but is it possible to reduce this probleme.It does abit of powerslides in corner exit.
I have tried what you told me Korey but is there a way to eliminate this probleme.
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Old 10-03-2008, 04:13 PM   #14010
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