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Old 06-12-2008, 05:52 PM   #12661
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Originally Posted by yyhayyim View Post
Hi Jeremy,

thanks for paying attention to our concerns...I know that soon HB TC will defenitely be a great car sales wise because HB will work with its consumers on fairer prices...you''ve already changed and have dropped quite a bit accordingly, which is awesome, and sales have climbed because of it.

Its just that right now for those that have a WCE, its really not worth it, since performance wise, the only things really needed is the new diff, and maybe the GRP brace, and possibly the new suspension arms...but going to the TC from a WCE is downgrading value wise...its better to just wait for the updated TC Hara Edition which will probably come out after the worlds or early next year, which will come with the good CVDs, and aluminum diff, etc...

But for some one looking for a new car, getting the TC is good, but not paying $400+ for it.

Speedtech Rc is selling them at $379, and now Stormer is listing them at $379 also, which is nice. That's more like it. And that shows that HB is listening, which is great.
I'm not sure if I see a big difference between $379 and 400 ? So what your saying is it's a great deal for $379 but your getting ripped off if it $401 ?
I have a TC and love it... it's not perfect but no car is... I personally think it's a great deal for the money...
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Old 06-12-2008, 06:08 PM   #12662
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Oh....dont even begin to compare the Cyclone TC to Xray '008 as far as quality of parts go...Xray's '008 spring steel driveshafts all around, spring steel turn buckles, their aero aluminum t06 swiss stuff, are all precision hand ground and hand made as well as CNCed, and the costs of manufacturing them are very expensive and still the cars are in the $480 range. Its a luxury car, with only the finest materials...no one denies that.
I switched my '008 for a cyclone, so im aware of the amazing xray quality. But because i had one i also know some of that quality stuff is pointless. The Xray multi diff for example , although beautfull is expensive, eats blades like there is no tomorrow (i run modified) and too heavy. I rather have the V3 spoll any day. Hell, the steel cups cost just a litle more than the xray blades, and far more durable...

All considered, i dont find the cyclone more expensive to run, and i seem to like its road manners a litle better
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Old 06-12-2008, 08:09 PM   #12663
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Originally Posted by Jeremy Felles View Post
yyhayyim- I understand your concerns and I appreciate your input, but I think there are a few things that are being overlooked.

First, the TC street price is $380, not $430. The $430 price was placed earlier by a distributor in Hong Kong, and I noticed you're from Florida so you'll be able to find the $380 price.
Its great to know that $380 should be the street price...'cause someone's gotta let Towerhobbies, Horizon, and other big sellers out there that they gotta stop trying to rip people off at $430+ prices. That's what they
re listing their TC's at, and its so unfortunate...it seems like trying to take advantage...but in the end, they'll end up paying for it and have to come down to the 380 mark if they want to sell some kits.

$380 is defenitely much better price and its a good deal for anyone who doesnt already own a Cyclone.
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Old 06-12-2008, 08:13 PM   #12664
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I'm not sure if I see a big difference between $379 and 400 ? So what your saying is it's a great deal for $379 but your getting ripped off if it $401 ?
I have a TC and love it... it's not perfect but no car is... I personally think it's a great deal for the money...
by $400+ I'm referring to Horizon Hobby, Tower hobby, and others trying to sell these kits at $440, when that clearly not the intent of HB with these cars.

And yes, the TC is great, but if you a WCE, no real need to sell that and get a TC...for now. If you dont have a Cyclone, and the TC is your first Cyclone, then yes, getting one now is nice, especially since the price has dropped to around $380.
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Old 06-12-2008, 08:14 PM   #12665
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Originally Posted by yyhayyim View Post
Its great to know that $380 should be the street price...'cause someone's gotta let Towerhobbies, Horizon, and other big sellers out there that they gotta stop trying to rip people off at $430+ prices. That's what they
re listing their TC's at, and its so unfortunate...it seems like trying to take advantage...but in the end, they'll end up paying for it and have to come down to the 380 mark if they want to sell some kits.

$380 is defenitely much better price and its a good deal for anyone who doesnt already own a Cyclone.
Honestly Horizon and Great Planes don't really have to change anything. They are the two biggest distributors in the country and I would safely say that 99.9% of hobbyshops order from these two places as their main sources and then fill in with some other smaller places.

They won't ever pay for it since they each have exclusive brands that consumers want so they have the shops and consumers hostage with no real way to change that.
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Old 06-12-2008, 09:43 PM   #12666
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Thanks for the answer Jeremy.

I don't think a new car is needed. But since you are so receptive, here is my list of stuff i would love to see:

- new ackerman ajustment system. Something that doesnt require the dismount the steering column to do that.
I found a way to adjust ackerman without dismounting the steering column. Easy, first pop out the steering linkage connected to the inner steering column, then take off front bumper. In front, (where the bumper is placed) you may use your 2.0mm hex driver to unscrew your pillow balls and replace spacers that you wish.
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Old 06-12-2008, 09:46 PM   #12667
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All I can say is WOW. This car was so dialed yesterday that I TQ'ed and won 10.5 at Norcal. The cheap fix for the rear toe in worked as well. Here's the break down for what to do.

Tamiya 416 rear hubs and the rear outter hinge pins is all you need and a reamer. The hot bodies rear outter hinge pins are 2.5mm and you need to ream the outter part of the arm to 2.6mm to fit the Tamiya hinge pins. Once you do this your toe in worries are over. (Insert clapping and rejoice) Now here's the catch... but it's a good one if you ask me. The Tamiya rear hub is shorter in height than the hotbodies so you will have to use shims in order to get it back to regular height. I added 3mm of shims. The last catch is that the holes on the Tamiya hub are inbetween the what we use for hotbodies. On the Hotbodies we always use the inner hole on the hub. The Tamiya hub has their hole inside the hotbodies inner hole and the Tamiya outter hole is inbetween the Hotbodies inner and outter hole (did I lose anyone in the explaination) So what I ran was the Tamiya ouuter hole (middle of the Hotbodies holes) The car was even better than it was for the Reedy race. I also made some spring changes and moved the rear shocks out a couple of holes.

This set up was dialed and Norcal yesterday. It's definately one of the better set up's I have run on the car. Scotty would be proud of me If you were at Norcal yesterday you saw the Black Hara in action I also palyed around with bodies yesterday and really liked the all purpose stratus.....remember that body? The speedworld cup is gonna be fun. The complete set up I ran will be posted today for sure. I only have one thing to do with my kids and other than watching the playoff game I have no other plans as of right now.
Thanks so much for this advice.... I just followed your instructions and low and behold.... my rear has an even 3 degree toe I'm a happy camper...
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Old 06-12-2008, 11:01 PM   #12668
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i have used my cyclone tc and wce. i like my tc better although i put all the bling parts in my tc i also tried, putting all the new parts in my wce and tested it .... happy with my tc with wce parts
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Old 06-12-2008, 11:53 PM   #12669
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Originally Posted by Geetoo View Post
I found a way to adjust ackerman without dismounting the steering column. Easy, first pop out the steering linkage connected to the inner steering column, then take off front bumper. In front, (where the bumper is placed) you may use your 2.0mm hex driver to unscrew your pillow balls and replace spacers that you wish.
You could also drill a hole in the ball cup where you can put your hex driver through, so you don't get any slop in the ball cups, which will happen if you pop the ball cup off.
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Old 06-13-2008, 01:04 AM   #12670
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You could also drill a hole in the ball cup where you can put your hex driver through, so you don't get any slop in the ball cups, which will happen if you pop the ball cup off.
And theres no need to take the front bumper assembly off, if you have a long blade driver, all you have to is poke a hole using the driver through the front of the foam the reach the hole you have made in the ball cups, simple really
Malc
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Old 06-13-2008, 01:35 AM   #12671
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Originally Posted by Jeremy Felles View Post
yyhayyim- I understand your concerns and I appreciate your input, but I think there are a few things that are being overlooked.

First, the TC street price is $380, not $430. The $430 price was placed earlier by a distributor in Hong Kong, and I noticed you're from Florida so you'll be able to find the $380 price.

(Note: I had written this before seeing your latest post. I apologize for leaving this in here but I just wanted to remind people that this is what the US has for an estimated street price)

With regards to the multi-diff: While it may only cost $45 dollars to purchase in a hobby shop it costs much more to design and then put in the kit than a simple front diff or front one way would have. This difference in cost must then be multiplied by 5 to show the approx. change in cost to the end consumer....this is how "small" changes end up changing the street price of any vehicle by any company dramatically.

The XRay cars have excellent materials, and I can't explain my feelings on why they are able to do what they do at those prices without speaking over my head so I'm going to refrain. All I can say is if we tried to do what they do at that price we would surely go out of business.


Xray makes great cars, but they're doing what they have to-to maintain reasonable prices as well. They do have certain areas that are plastic where ours are aluminum (such as the shocks) in an effort to keep prices down.

After reading your last post I must say that I agree with you. Those with Moore-speed cars don't necessarily need to run out and purchase a TC as they can easily continue running what they have or upgrade a couple of parts to bring the car to above TC specs.

My main concern is that people realize that we are not looking to rip them off. I know from being at a few companies that are profit margins are no different than others, we've just had cars that were a bit too high priced. This is something that we are looking at in depth and we are always working towards increased performance/durability at a more affordable price.

Thank you to everyone that runs HB cars and also to everyone voicing their opinions as well. Without you, we couldn't improve.

Jeremy
Hi Jeremy
Thanks for listening to our concerns, as its good that someone is taking note but for me I don't see why the TC car has these, shall we say, 'lesser grade parts' all that was needed really, was to have the alu shock collars, alu shock mounts, alu servo mounts,(as per Hara car) to sort out the rear toe in which has been a bug bind from when I got my WCE, and last but not least, when we come to purchase a pair of hubs, could we have a pair of fronts, and not a front and a rear please, as a lot of us racers have a pit box full of rears, I understand that they come out of a mold as a front and rear, but what does it take to brake them off their tree, and put a pair of fronts and a pair of rears in separate packets, this is what us racers get the sore about. If all of the above was sorted on the TC we wouldn't be have this conversation
Kind Regards Malc THECANMAN
The reason I purchased the TC, was that my WCE was getting a bit tired, so instead of purchasing another WCE I thought I would got the TC, as I had heard good things about the handling of the car, but was a little disappointed when I came across all of the above.
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Old 06-13-2008, 02:39 AM   #12672
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Thanks for the advice regarding the ackerman guys

I will try that and see what i come up with
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Old 06-13-2008, 05:26 AM   #12673
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Originally Posted by Geetoo View Post
I found a way to adjust ackerman without dismounting the steering column. Easy, first pop out the steering linkage connected to the inner steering column, then take off front bumper. In front, (where the bumper is placed) you may use your 2.0mm hex driver to unscrew your pillow balls and replace spacers that you wish.
the ackerman issue can easily be update with just a very simple re-design of the mono link system. Just have the ball studs screw in vertically, instead of horizontally. The AE TC5 picked up on this, and its the best way. Its really simple and easy to do and will cost pennies for them to make the simple update, I'm sure.
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Old 06-13-2008, 08:41 AM   #12674
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CoolFanMan/Everyone- I just wanted to let you guys know that I've taken the time to read through all of the responses over the last few days and I wanted to say I appreciate the debating without flaming that has been going on. It really makes it easier to sort out what everyone is really looking for out of HB to improve your views on the car.

I will be taking the suggestions and concerns that I've seen on the last couple of pages to those above me so that they can see what is being said in a public forum. After that it's out of my control but I think there has been some excellent information on here so we'll see.

Normally I do more work in the offroad forum, but I'll check in here from time to time to see if anything is goin down.

Have a great weekend,

Jeremy
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Old 06-13-2008, 08:46 AM   #12675
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