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Old 06-12-2008, 12:51 PM   #12646
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The cheapest anyone is selling the new TC is speedtechrc and its $379...its still over priced for all the "cheap" stuff it comes with.

This car should easily be selling around $340-$350 range like TC5 and losi Type R cars...what's so expensive about it? The new diff?

Hotbodies/HPI needs to do a much better job with their pricing or else their are going to fail on this one a nd loose a lot of money...witht he tight US economy, and then trying to stick us with a $430 price tag on the TC?

I think they're paying attention, cause prices are dropping after all the compaints and major lack of sales.

They should learn from Kyosho's mistakes, when they were trying to screw Kyosho fans with the TF-5 stallion selling for $489 for a crappy car which is now history...

Hotbodies knows better, and the US market wont be suckered into that...that's why most people are just getting WCE and getting the new diff and that's it.
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Old 06-12-2008, 02:06 PM   #12647
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackedOutREVO View Post
Plastic servo mounts is a dumb idea IMO

http://www.hpiracing.com/news/2008052701/

If you look at Hara's car, he ran alu mounts, but most of the other parts you asked about he ran. And won REEDY.

But I have to agree, I like the cool purple alu parts alot more then the plastic parts Maybe theres a WCE edition on its way?
I notice by the pics on your link, that he is using the alu shock collars, as these don't move easy like the placky ones you get with the TC, also he has split the rear deck, to what I assume is to get more rear grip from the car, if this is the case, then you could say it could of been made in CF in the first place.
Over hear in the UK, the car will retail at 325, that nearly $650 thats just CRAZY
Malc
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Old 06-12-2008, 02:11 PM   #12648
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Originally Posted by TheCoolCanFanMan View Post
I notice by the pics on your link, that he is using the alu shock collars, as these don't move easy like the placky ones you get with the TC, also he has split the rear deck, to what I assume is to get more rear grip from the car, if this is the case, then you could say it could of been made in CF in the first place.
Over hear in the UK, the car will retail at 325, that nearly $650 thats just CRAZY
Malc
How much are MI3's retailing for in UK?
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Old 06-12-2008, 02:26 PM   #12649
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackedOutREVO View Post
Plastic servo mounts is a dumb idea IMO

http://www.hpiracing.com/news/2008052701/

If you look at Hara's car, he ran alu mounts, but most of the other parts you asked about he ran. And won REEDY.

But I have to agree, I like the cool purple alu parts alot more then the plastic parts Maybe theres a WCE edition on its way?
Also the shock mounts have been changed from the placky ones to the purple ones
Malc
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Old 06-12-2008, 02:31 PM   #12650
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Originally Posted by yyhayyim View Post
How much are MI3's retailing for in UK?
Take a peak, and double it for US $
http://www.sldmodels.co.uk/shop/rc%2...cher%20mi3.htm
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Old 06-12-2008, 03:27 PM   #12651
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCoolCanFanMan View Post
I notice by the pics on your link, that he is using the alu shock collars, as these don't move easy like the placky ones you get with the TC, also he has split the rear deck, to what I assume is to get more rear grip from the car, if this is the case, then you could say it could of been made in CF in the first place.
Over hear in the UK, the car will retail at 325, that nearly $650 thats just CRAZY
Malc
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCoolCanFanMan View Post
Also the shock mounts have been changed from the placky ones to the purple ones
Malc
I have never used the plastic collars, so I cant say anything on those. Whats wrong with the FRP plate?

I still think the WCE with a new diff is a better deal.. Im not swapping to a TC any time soon, my WCE is just fine. Im sure there will be a WCE version, and the TC will get cheap, like the older cyclones... I hope
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Old 06-12-2008, 03:45 PM   #12652
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Hi guys,

I wanted to provide some insight into the overall price of the car as it relates to the materials used.

First I'd just like to say that the street price on this car has dropped approx. $90 US from the Andy Moore edition which makes it much more reasonable and gives it a stronger stance in the market.

Unfortunately, it is nearly impossible to provide the same number of hop-ups at the same price so certain "non-critical" items were changed to less exotic materials to provide a vehicle that more people could afford.

It is un-fair to compare our car to a TC5 or a Losi Car as the HB TC has a much larger number of machined Aluminum parts, as well as the optional locking spool/front one-way, all of which equals a huge increase to our cost. Every tiny bit of cost incurred by the manufacture is multiplied quite a bit by the time it reaches the end consumer. While the TC might not have all the Hop ups the Moorespeed had, it does have much higher quality materials than those used on the Losi or AE rides (both of which are excellent cars) along with some new/different high performance parts which easily justify the $30 difference in price.

Hara won the Reedy race with nearly a stock car, which I know is tough to consider relevant due to his excellent driving abilities, but it does prove that the car can perform without modifications.

In the end I think our engineering/production team did an awesome job of finding ways to lower the cost while improving the performance of the car. I also value the input of everyone on here as clearly the majority of you would like to see the car reach an even more affordable price tag which I don't think we can over look.

Thank you all for your interest in HB and I wish you all happy racing,

Jeremy
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Old 06-12-2008, 04:40 PM   #12653
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I think you guys are overreacting.

Sure, compared with the ME the TC is not great deal on the bling factor, but i dont think it is much diferent from most of the other chassis on the market today. The truth is were spoiled by the Moore Edition.

Compared with T2'008 for example, it has steel outdrives (vs. plastic), lighter and smoother CVD's (although not as strong), alu shocks and alu pulleys. The xray does have aluminum servo mounts though.

Given this said i do think the servo mounts should be in alu, and the shock mounts should be in aluminium to (the plastic ones are extremely easy to overtighten). Or better yet, redesign the damn thing.

Also, its not really fare to compare the price with Losi or Ae for US and with shumacher for UK.

Know, what about a new mould for the hubs?!?! is it much to ask?

Last edited by Itchy; 06-12-2008 at 04:50 PM.
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Old 06-12-2008, 04:50 PM   #12654
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What is peoples deal with blinging out their touring cars. I still have the old black edition cyclone and it works great and purple does not make you faster . Yes I can see the servo mounts as a good thing to have as the carbon ones provide a different angle and placement of the servo when compared to the alum ones and unless you space them up you can not get the servo close to the chassis.
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Old 06-12-2008, 04:54 PM   #12655
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Itchy- Those are excellent points and as happens so often in this RC world I don't have the answer for all of those things. Sometimes what seems like such an easy change will result in huge changes to pricing on the other end.

A redesign? Does the touring car world really want a new release already? (This is an honest question and I would love to hear everyone's feedback)

Hubs- I will be forwarding this onto our engineering dept.
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Old 06-12-2008, 05:06 PM   #12656
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Well its good to get peeps different reactions on the points that have come up on this car, and do take on board the bling factor, but its not the bling thing thats bugging me, its the obvious things, like Hara has changed, which at the time of writing my criticisms of the TC I did not know he had changed, but if Hara has changed these parts, whats good for the goose is good for the gander I say, so come on HB, "don't spoil the ship for a hapeth of tar" (I think thats how the saying goes) seroiusly though, iron these items out, including the prob with the rear hubs, and you have a winner, in Moor hands than one
Cheers Malc
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Old 06-12-2008, 05:14 PM   #12657
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Itchy View Post
I think you guys are overreacting.

Sure, compared with the ME the TC is not great deal on the bling factor, but i dont think it is much diferent from most of the other chassis on the market today. The truth is were spoiled by the Moore Edition.

Compared with T2'008 for example, it has steel outdrives (vs. plastic), lighter and smoother CVD's (although not as strong), alu shocks and alu pulleys. The xray does have aluminum servo mounts though.

Given this said i do think the servo mounts should be in alu, and the shock mounts should be in aluminium to (the plastic ones are extremely easy to overtighten). Or better yet, redesign the damn thing.

Also, its not really fare to compare the price with Losi or Ae for US and with shumacher for UK.

Know, what about a new mould for the hubs?!?! is it much to ask?
Oh....dont even begin to compare the Cyclone TC to Xray '008 as far as quality of parts go...Xray's '008 spring steel driveshafts all around, spring steel turn buckles, their aero aluminum t06 swiss stuff, are all precision hand ground and hand made as well as CNCed, and the costs of manufacturing them are very expensive and still the cars are in the $480 range. Its a luxury car, with only the finest materials...no one denies that.


the Cyclone TC, for the $430 price some are still trying to take advantage of us, is not worth that all manufacturing wise!!! Steel is cheap. And so is aluminum, compared to titanium and spring-steel or the exotic aircraft grade swiss aluminum stuff.

the GRP brace, is much cheaper to make than an aluminum one, or the CF version on the black Cyclones.

The cheap steel dog bones and axles are much cheaper than the heavy duty WCE MIP CVD's.

The new bulkheads, just because of the subtle ridge in it, doesnt make it more expensive. Its the same material.

The new bulkheads, its less material, and its cheaper to manufacture.

The new spool/one way- the Xray multi-diff, which uses higher grade materials on it, costs around $45. Same price fo their diffs and one-ways. Depending on the kit, its included, and the price is the same.

The new rear diff- how does using a bit larger diff rings and a better screw make this costs sky rocket? how much can the diff rings cost HB to make( cents per unit), and the same for the screw...c'mon.

people are not stupid...look at the new Tamiya TRF 416...that thing is loaded, and its sold around $430...same price Tamiya TRF 415 kits were selling for 3 yrs ago!!!
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Old 06-12-2008, 05:23 PM   #12658
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy Felles View Post
Hi guys,

I wanted to provide some insight into the overall price of the car as it relates to the materials used.

First I'd just like to say that the street price on this car has dropped approx. $90 US from the Andy Moore edition which makes it much more reasonable and gives it a stronger stance in the market.

Unfortunately, it is nearly impossible to provide the same number of hop-ups at the same price so certain "non-critical" items were changed to less exotic materials to provide a vehicle that more people could afford.

It is un-fair to compare our car to a TC5 or a Losi Car as the HB TC has a much larger number of machined Aluminum parts, as well as the optional locking spool/front one-way, all of which equals a huge increase to our cost. Every tiny bit of cost incurred by the manufacture is multiplied quite a bit by the time it reaches the end consumer. While the TC might not have all the Hop ups the Moorespeed had, it does have much higher quality materials than those used on the Losi or AE rides (both of which are excellent cars) along with some new/different high performance parts which easily justify the $30 difference in price.

Hara won the Reedy race with nearly a stock car, which I know is tough to consider relevant due to his excellent driving abilities, but it does prove that the car can perform without modifications.

In the end I think our engineering/production team did an awesome job of finding ways to lower the cost while improving the performance of the car. I also value the input of everyone on here as clearly the majority of you would like to see the car reach an even more affordable price tag which I don't think we can over look.

Thank you all for your interest in HB and I wish you all happy racing,

Jeremy
Hi Jeremy,

thanks for paying attention to our concerns...I know that soon HB TC will defenitely be a great car sales wise because HB will work with its consumers on fairer prices...you''ve already changed and have dropped quite a bit accordingly, which is awesome, and sales have climbed because of it.

Its just that right now for those that have a WCE, its really not worth it, since performance wise, the only things really needed is the new diff, and maybe the GRP brace, and possibly the new suspension arms...but going to the TC from a WCE is downgrading value wise...its better to just wait for the updated TC Hara Edition which will probably come out after the worlds or early next year, which will come with the good CVDs, and aluminum diff, etc...

But for some one looking for a new car, getting the TC is good, but not paying $400+ for it.

Speedtech Rc is selling them at $379, and now Stormer is listing them at $379 also, which is nice. That's more like it. And that shows that HB is listening, which is great.
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Old 06-12-2008, 05:43 PM   #12659
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yyhayyim- I understand your concerns and I appreciate your input, but I think there are a few things that are being overlooked.

First, the TC street price is $380, not $430. The $430 price was placed earlier by a distributor in Hong Kong, and I noticed you're from Florida so you'll be able to find the $380 price.

(Note: I had written this before seeing your latest post. I apologize for leaving this in here but I just wanted to remind people that this is what the US has for an estimated street price)

With regards to the multi-diff: While it may only cost $45 dollars to purchase in a hobby shop it costs much more to design and then put in the kit than a simple front diff or front one way would have. This difference in cost must then be multiplied by 5 to show the approx. change in cost to the end consumer....this is how "small" changes end up changing the street price of any vehicle by any company dramatically.

The XRay cars have excellent materials, and I can't explain my feelings on why they are able to do what they do at those prices without speaking over my head so I'm going to refrain. All I can say is if we tried to do what they do at that price we would surely go out of business.


Xray makes great cars, but they're doing what they have to-to maintain reasonable prices as well. They do have certain areas that are plastic where ours are aluminum (such as the shocks) in an effort to keep prices down.

After reading your last post I must say that I agree with you. Those with Moore-speed cars don't necessarily need to run out and purchase a TC as they can easily continue running what they have or upgrade a couple of parts to bring the car to above TC specs.

My main concern is that people realize that we are not looking to rip them off. I know from being at a few companies that are profit margins are no different than others, we've just had cars that were a bit too high priced. This is something that we are looking at in depth and we are always working towards increased performance/durability at a more affordable price.

Thank you to everyone that runs HB cars and also to everyone voicing their opinions as well. Without you, we couldn't improve.

Jeremy
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Old 06-12-2008, 05:48 PM   #12660
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Thanks for the answer Jeremy.

I don't think a new car is needed. But since you are so receptive, here is my list of stuff i would love to see:

- new system to mount the shocks. My favorite is the xray: easy to mount and dismount and not prone to get slack.

- new ackerman ajustment system. Something that doesnt require the dismount the steering column to do that.

- optional roll center spacers. Im thinking something like a 'U' shaped spacer that allows a quick RC change without the need completely unscrew the toe blocks

I understand some of the things listed would compromise the final price. The shock for example would require new plastic moulds. But they could be included in a future... Cyclone TC HARA WC Champion Edition

The other pieces can be sold as regular aluminium optionals

Regarding the new release or not question...
- People will complain if too much optional 'must have' parts are released
- People will complain there is a new car every year
- People will also complain if there is no evolution

There is a fine line between this options and some will never be happy. But i think HB as done the great job in the past years. The cyclone is proving to be stable but competitive. I wouldnt do anything diferent
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