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Old 01-12-2010, 10:03 PM   #18271
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Originally Posted by decibels View Post
i can't give an exact but i find that stiffening the car will be the way to go for foam which means moving the shocks on the bottom to the outside, raising the roll centres, shortening the camber links, stiffening the sway bars, and going heavier in shock oil. with foam you have to think in terms of grip. the foam tyre has plenty of grip so if your rear end is loose you may want to lengthen your rear link or something that will give the rear end grip!! Also stiffer top and middle decks will work better to!! but try these one by one and learn what the car does as you go!! it will make you faster in the long run!! hope all this helps.
Good stuff, thanks for that. I think i'll give her a ground-up rebuild tonight and make some notes about where it is now, then start mucking about with some of your suggestions. One at a time of course
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Old 01-12-2010, 10:04 PM   #18272
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Originally Posted by Gwoodrc View Post
I have 1.5 in it now, tried 1 and zero and went back to 1.5. But it seemed that the toe locks only changed though the corner steering and not initial turnin. Also went to 2 degree chubs and seemed to calm it down and legthened the front sway bar links and that helped alot, but it is still darty.
Like Korey mentioned, you could try to use 2mm spacers for the ackerman. Another thing you can try is raise up the front camber links with 3mm spacers to reduce the camber change when the front dive in to the corner, it will help reduce the initial turn in. Hope these help too.
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Old 01-12-2010, 10:21 PM   #18273
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Like Korey mentioned, you could try to use 2mm spacers for the ackerman. Another thing you can try is raise up the front camber links with 3mm spacers to reduce the camber change when the front dive in to the corner, it will help reduce the initial turn in. Hope these help too.
Did that (2mm ackerman spacers), don't have the car in front of me, but I think it is 3mm spacer on the front camber link also. I do know that it has no shims under the fr toeblock and .5 shim under the 1.5 ff toeblock.
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Old 01-13-2010, 02:35 AM   #18274
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Originally Posted by JR007 View Post
Good stuff, thanks for that. I think i'll give her a ground-up rebuild tonight and make some notes about where it is now, then start mucking about with some of your suggestions. One at a time of course
If you are interested ... I have used with good results in category 17.5 foam asphalt fol setup:

Front
Spring Xray 30lb Light purple
Oil 50wt
Piston 2 Hole 1.2mm
Sway Bar 1.6mm
Camber link shim 2mm
1mm below the pivot suspension
0 ░ pivot toe

Rear
Spring 17.5lb Xray white
Oil 30wt
Piston 2 Hole 1.2mm
No sway bar
0mm Camber link
1mm below the pivot suspension
3 ░ pivot toe

Tire

Front and rear 37shore

Important!
Min.57mm tire diameter, maximum 60 mm
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Old 01-13-2010, 03:10 AM   #18275
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Korey,

Do you know if the main topdeck for the cyclone tc is stiffer than the wce's cos i thought i heard someone say u would hav to cut the tc's to hav the same flex?

Is it mainly for outdoor racing that you cut the topdeck to get more grip or would it also help for indoor racing when the grip is high,

any ideas?
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Old 01-13-2010, 08:35 AM   #18276
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Hi all,

I ve been using the andy moore iic set-up on carpet but using HB Pink and silver springs ( the nearest to tamiya rates)

After talking to one of the top drivers with a cyclone in suggested to reduce the rear drop and use 35w rear shock oil to stop the car 'hooking' mid corner.

First: would this work

secondly when I took my shocks apart I have 2 hole pistons, but all the set-ups I look at use 3 hole. What and how much differenece would I get using 3 hole over 2?

thanks as all ways

mi
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Old 01-13-2010, 10:26 AM   #18277
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Originally Posted by AGNO View Post
If you are interested ... I have used with good results in category 17.5 foam asphalt fol setup:

Front
Spring Xray 30lb Light purple
Oil 50wt
Piston 2 Hole 1.2mm
Sway Bar 1.6mm
Camber link shim 2mm
1mm below the pivot suspension
0 ░ pivot toe

Rear
Spring 17.5lb Xray white
Oil 30wt
Piston 2 Hole 1.2mm
No sway bar
0mm Camber link
1mm below the pivot suspension
3 ░ pivot toe

Tire

Front and rear 37shore

Important!
Min.57mm tire diameter, maximum 60 mm
That's great thank, and actually not too far from where i'm set.
With the spacer below the pivot block, do you also have a spacer under the toe block?, or do you run with anti-squat and dive?
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Old 01-13-2010, 11:05 AM   #18278
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Originally Posted by JR007 View Post
That's great thank, and actually not too far from where i'm set.
With the spacer below the pivot block, do you also have a spacer under the toe block?, or do you run with anti-squat and dive?


Nothing anti squat / dive, sorry I had to say in both pivot suspension.
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Old 01-13-2010, 02:00 PM   #18279
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Originally Posted by Matt W View Post
Korey,

Do you know if the main topdeck for the cyclone tc is stiffer than the wce's cos i thought i heard someone say u would hav to cut the tc's to hav the same flex?

Is it mainly for outdoor racing that you cut the topdeck to get more grip or would it also help for indoor racing when the grip is high,

any ideas?
I haven't tried the older top deck before, so I have nothing to compare it to. Talking with Hiro, they are very similar. I doubt I would be able to tell a difference between the two to be honest.

I cut my upper deck because it smoothed the car out a bit, especially in high grip tracks. It does feel like it creates more grip in the middle and exit of the corner to me, so sometimes you might have to make a setup change or two to get the overall effect you are aiming for.

-Korey
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Old 01-13-2010, 02:26 PM   #18280
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Thanks for the explanation korey.

Just checking, ive noticed that on the wce that the rear shocks are leant out at the top so they lean back, but on the tc the pivot spacer is turned around and they lean in. I was just wondering if this makes any difference to the feel of the car?
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Old 01-13-2010, 03:37 PM   #18281
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Apparently the Xray guys are spacing the shocks quite often to change the behaviour of the car..
I didn't think it'd make that big (or at all..) until i tried it a couple of weeks ago.
Mounting the rear shock closer to the tower creates a bit more steering.
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Old 01-13-2010, 03:58 PM   #18282
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Originally Posted by Sparx View Post
Apparently the Xray guys are spacing the shocks quite often to change the behaviour of the car..
I didn't think it'd make that big (or at all..) until i tried it a couple of weeks ago.
Mounting the rear shock closer to the tower creates a bit more steering.
Interesting. When you move it toward the tower. Do you remove only upper shims, making the shock lean forward toward the tower? Or do you remove upper and lower shims, moving the entire shock toward the tower?

I have always shimmed my shocks as straight (perpendicular to chassis) as possible.
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Old 01-13-2010, 06:33 PM   #18283
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Originally Posted by Sparx View Post
Apparently the Xray guys are spacing the shocks quite often to change the behaviour of the car..
I didn't think it'd make that big (or at all..) until i tried it a couple of weeks ago.
Mounting the rear shock closer to the tower creates a bit more steering.
That makes sense because it will stand the shock up more. Interesting way to tune, Cyclone owners without the wce style towers can achieve the same effect as moving 1/2 holes by adding spacers.
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Old 01-13-2010, 06:37 PM   #18284
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Originally Posted by michael.branth View Post
Hi all,

I ve been using the andy moore iic set-up on carpet but using HB Pink and silver springs ( the nearest to tamiya rates)

After talking to one of the top drivers with a cyclone in suggested to reduce the rear drop and use 35w rear shock oil to stop the car 'hooking' mid corner.

First: would this work

secondly when I took my shocks apart I have 2 hole pistons, but all the set-ups I look at use 3 hole. What and how much differenece would I get using 3 hole over 2?

thanks as all ways

mi
I had this issue of the car mid corner breaking loose. I stiffened the rear of the car to get the grip i needed.

thicker oil or springs

have someone watch your car through the corners , is the inside rear wheel lifting right before the car snaps around?
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Old 01-13-2010, 10:54 PM   #18285
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Originally Posted by Korey Harbke View Post
I haven't tried the older top deck before, so I have nothing to compare it to. Talking with Hiro, they are very similar. I doubt I would be able to tell a difference between the two to be honest.

I cut my upper deck because it smoothed the car out a bit, especially in high grip tracks. It does feel like it creates more grip in the middle and exit of the corner to me, so sometimes you might have to make a setup change or two to get the overall effect you are aiming for.

-Korey
I do believe the wce upper deck has more flex then the Tc version. also i did find a difference (be it small) in lap time on a test i did on our local large tarmac track. I also used a cut wce topdeck once and the car was slower and felt very lazy.

but what we are tuning here is actually a bit strange to me. creating more torsional flex (by cutting the topdeck) disconnects the front and rear roll stiffness more.
normally (if the chassis was infinitely stiff) the front and rear roll stiffness would form a balance point we can tune to. now if this balance would be way off your car would not handle well of course. by allowing more flex we disconnect this balance allowing the roll stiffness balance to be off the optimum.
Now would a car be faster with optimal roll stiffness balance and a connected front and rear roll stiffness
OR
are there cases where the roll stiffness needs to be wrong so the only way to get it to work would be to disconnect the effect by allowing flex?
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