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Old 12-20-2009, 12:37 PM   #18046
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(1) I'm using a 1.5 deg pivot block in front, instead of the kit 2.5 deg pivot block. I'm assuming you mean something else with the statement above?

"FR" block i mentioned was "Front Rear" block. The 1.5 deg block you have on your car would be "FF" (Front Front) but with the modification, we use 2.0 deg block in "FR" (Front Rear) position.

(2) Is this related to the physical modification mentioned earlier in the thread where (I think?) it talked about drilling new holes (I think to get the sus arm hinge pins slightly further apart) ??

Yes, drill two holes to use the toe-in block in "FR" position and add another 1.0mm shim on the hinge pin as there will be 1.0mm gap when you use toe-in block for both "FF" and "FR".

Hope you could understand this.
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Old 12-20-2009, 12:41 PM   #18047
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hi-LowBlow View Post
(1) I'm using a 1.5 deg pivot block in front, instead of the kit 2.5 deg pivot block. I'm assuming you mean something else with the statement above?

"FR" block i mentioned was "Front Rear" block. The 1.5 deg block you have on your car would be "FF" (Front Front) but with the modification, we use 2.0 deg block in "FR" (Front Rear) position.

(2) Is this related to the physical modification mentioned earlier in the thread where (I think?) it talked about drilling new holes (I think to get the sus arm hinge pins slightly further apart) ??

Yes, drill two holes to use the toe-in block in "FR" position and add another 1.0mm shim on the hinge pin as there will be 1.0mm gap when you use toe-in block for both "FF" and "FR".

Hope you could understand this.
Ok, this makes things clearer
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Old 12-20-2009, 12:56 PM   #18048
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hi-LowBlow View Post
(1) I'm using a 1.5 deg pivot block in front, instead of the kit 2.5 deg pivot block. I'm assuming you mean something else with the statement above?

"FR" block i mentioned was "Front Rear" block. The 1.5 deg block you have on your car would be "FF" (Front Front) but with the modification, we use 2.0 deg block in "FR" (Front Rear) position.

(2) Is this related to the physical modification mentioned earlier in the thread where (I think?) it talked about drilling new holes (I think to get the sus arm hinge pins slightly further apart) ??

Yes, drill two holes to use the toe-in block in "FR" position and add another 1.0mm shim on the hinge pin as there will be 1.0mm gap when you use toe-in block for both "FF" and "FR".

Hope you could understand this.

Now I see it but I don't understand why? what is the difference between running the stock stuff and 2* in ff and fr? Is it adding to front wheel track?
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Old 12-20-2009, 02:29 PM   #18049
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Originally Posted by balistic View Post
Now I see it but I don't understand why? what is the difference between running the stock stuff and 2* in ff and fr? Is it adding to front wheel track?
It widens the inner pivot block points which stiffens the car up on that end. Just as narrowing up the inner hinge pins makes it softer and promotes more roll.

Track width is widened, but the narrow hexes help to bring it back in a bit.
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Old 12-20-2009, 02:45 PM   #18050
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Originally Posted by ShaunMac View Post
It widens the inner pivot block points which stiffens the car up on that end.
...
(1) Just out of curiosity, how does this compare with a "stock" TC and using solid ATC posts ??

(2) I have tried solid ATC posts to firm up the front, and the change is quite noticeable. However, I am still experimenting. Noting that I have included a cut top deck as a permanent change to my TC.

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Old 12-20-2009, 03:16 PM   #18051
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaunMac View Post
It widens the inner pivot block points which stiffens the car up on that end. Just as narrowing up the inner hinge pins makes it softer and promotes more roll.

Track width is widened, but the narrow hexes help to bring it back in a bit.
pulling the track back in like that affects where the steering center line hits the tire contact patch too, is that the gain? If it's not to gain track width.

How does it stiffen the car? I would think it would lay the shock down a small degree and soften it.
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Old 12-20-2009, 05:20 PM   #18052
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Originally Posted by balistic View Post
pulling the track back in like that affects where the steering center line hits the tire contact patch too, is that the gain? If it's not to gain track width.

How does it stiffen the car? I would think it would lay the shock down a small degree and soften it.
Changing the inner hinge pin width affects many things besides overall suspension stiffness. Yes, when you go wider on the hinge pins, it feels like the car has less roll even with softer springs but with this change, you are also changing the shock mounting position on the arm, camber link length and up/down suspension stroke.

I don't think we can say just stiffen or lighten the suspension that easy.
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Old 12-20-2009, 05:24 PM   #18053
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Quote:
Originally Posted by balistic View Post
pulling the track back in like that affects where the steering center line hits the tire contact patch too, is that the gain? If it's not to gain track width.

How does it stiffen the car? I would think it would lay the shock down a small degree and soften it.
I wouldn't say it stiffens the car really. I'll try my best to explain.

When the hinge pins are positions closer to the centerline of the car, the chassis rolls easier. This is keeping in mind we are using the stock hex hubs to maintain a baseline track width. On our car, when I run the stock hinge pin mounts up front, the car generally has more steering. It's a little more "on the nose" and sometimes does some weird stuff when the traction is really high. In order to keep the front end flat, we generally have to run pretty firm springs, or so other setup changes to keep body roll to a minimum, but with that it makes the car a little hard to drive over bumps. In general from what I have found, the narrower hinge pin spacing (stock) with std hex hub will give slightly less steering into the corner, but through the middle and exit, it will produce more steering.

Wider hinge pin spacing makes the car roll less (2.0 deg FF, and FR blocks). Whenever I run the wider hinge pin spacing, I run thinner front hex hubs to maintain the stock front width as much as possible. All we're generally looking for is to change where the pivot points are for the suspension arms, in relation to the chassis center line. Whenever we run the wider hinge pin spacing, we can get less roll, even with softer springs. This makes the car nice and easy to drive on bumpy or very high traction tracks. Most of the time, when running the wider hinge pin blocks, and narrower hex hubs (to keep track width the same), I notice more steering into the first part of the corner, but less through the middle and exit.

In the past when I ran the Corally RDX, we did widen the hinge pin spacing, run thinner hex hubs, and a slightly softer spring if our car was on the verge of traction rolling at big carpet races. It kept the front width the same, but it sure did make the car easier to drive. It also makes the car corner super flat too. This helped smooth the car out, and carry better corner speed without the worry of traction rolling . It worked really well on any bumpy or high grip surface, especially foam tires on carpet.

I hope that helps everyone some. I still like the stock position best for most surfaces. It's pretty rare that I move away from it in club racing, or on most asphalt surfaces. There are those rare occasions where it's pretty dialed when you widen the front of the car at the hinge pins.

-Korey
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Old 12-21-2009, 01:20 AM   #18054
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Can we hope for a production of pivot FR enlarged by HB to prevent the drilling of the frame?
By adopting this solution, however you have the open arms with 0 , it is always advisable to use it?
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Old 12-21-2009, 01:44 AM   #18055
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Default Hinge pins

Don't JAAD make a few different hinge pin carriers at Precision RC
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Old 12-21-2009, 02:01 AM   #18056
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simplesimon View Post
Don't JAAD make a few different hinge pin carriers at Precision RC
You make them, but only increased by 0.5
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Old 12-21-2009, 02:06 AM   #18057
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Default Hinge pin carriers

I saw they called it 0.5 Degree but don't understand what that means. Would it be 0.5 mm perhaps?
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Old 12-21-2009, 05:22 AM   #18058
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Korey Harbke View Post

I hope that helps everyone some. I still like the stock position best for most surfaces. It's pretty rare that I move away from it in club racing, or on most asphalt surfaces. There are those rare occasions where it's pretty dialed when you widen the front of the car at the hinge pins.

-Korey
The reason I want to know is I have your setup on the car now and I want to make sure before I change it. WCRCR is my local track and I am having a hell of a time adapting to on road.
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Old 12-21-2009, 06:17 AM   #18059
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I saw they called it 0.5 Degree but don't understand what that means. Would it be 0.5 mm perhaps?

I believe that an increase of 0.5 corresponds to approximately 0.7 mm.

Last edited by AGNO; 12-21-2009 at 06:47 AM.
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Old 12-21-2009, 07:47 AM   #18060
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hi-LowBlow View Post
Changing the inner hinge pin width affects many things besides overall suspension stiffness. Yes, when you go wider on the hinge pins, it feels like the car has less roll even with softer springs but with this change, you are also changing the shock mounting position on the arm, camber link length and up/down suspension stroke.

I don't think we can say just stiffen or lighten the suspension that easy.


I tried this for the first time yesterday. I was very impressed with how easy it was to drive.
Lap times were faster too ! (carpet, rubber)
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