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Old 12-19-2009, 09:16 PM
  #18031  
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You take the tensioner out. You don't need it for 17.5 or 13.5. I've even seen guys running in mod without the belt tensioner.

You can run the cut deck to gain more grip at low-bite tracks or even at high-bite tracks to help calm the car down a bit. It made my car feel much smoother and easier to drive because it wasn't quite as responsive. I like a more neutral feeling car. I can't drive a car that's on the edge and super responsive.
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Old 12-19-2009, 09:30 PM
  #18032  
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Originally Posted by BIG RE
Can someone post a pic of the cut top deck mod that I am hearing about? Thanks
(1) Here's the photo originally posted by Phil Chambers.

(2) With a bit of "effort" I mounted the belt tensioner (flipped 180 degs) forward of the Steering Crank screw (there is an unused hole on my TC's top deck).

Cheers
Attached Thumbnails Hot Bodies Cyclone-cut-topdecks.jpg  
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Old 12-20-2009, 03:03 AM
  #18033  
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Mr.Hiro...

I have a Hara Cyclone. Do i need anything different to put Barry's 13.5 setup from the KO race on my cyclone? Like arms, shock towers, etc. Thanks.
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Old 12-20-2009, 09:17 AM
  #18034  
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Originally Posted by Syber Serulean
Mr.Hiro...

I have a Hara Cyclone. Do i need anything different to put Barry's 13.5 setup from the KO race on my cyclone? Like arms, shock towers, etc. Thanks.
Hi Syber Serulean,
You can put Barry's 13.5 setup on your Hara edition but there is one thing you need to check as following.

Arm spacing (Front):
If your car doesn't have the new "TC" a-arms, you need to shim a-arms differently. Barry's car has 2.75mm in front of the a-arms and 1.0mm in the back, but with the older a-arms it needs 0.75mm in front and 3.0mm in the back.

The shock positions on arms:
Front- Out side
Rear- Middle
(Those are the same location as the #2 on front arms, #3 on rear arms)

Hope it helps.
Thank you!
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Old 12-20-2009, 11:12 AM
  #18035  
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thank you, Hiro!
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Old 12-20-2009, 11:50 AM
  #18036  
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Originally Posted by Hi-LowBlow
Hi Syber Serulean,
...
Arm spacing (Front):
Barry's car has 2.75mm in front of the a-arms and 1.0mm in the back,
...
I'm a bit confused on the shim values quoted above, which come to a total of 3.75mm. For my HB Cyclone TC (unmodified), the total shim value allowed is 2.75mm. Therefore, if the aft shim is 1.0mm, the forward shim should be 1.75mm. I actually use a total of 2.50mm to get smooth arm movement (I found 2.75mm to be too tight). What am I missing here ??

Cheers
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Old 12-20-2009, 12:05 PM
  #18037  
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Originally Posted by cosmo1974
I'm a bit confused on the shim values quoted above, which come to a total of 3.75mm. For my HB Cyclone TC (unmodified), the total shim value allowed is 2.75mm. Therefore, if the aft shim is 1.0mm, the forward shim should be 1.75mm. I actually use a total of 2.50mm to get smooth arm movement (I found 2.75mm to be too tight). What am I missing here ??

Cheers
Yes you are right cosmo,
Basically the TC (all cyclone series) needs total of 2.75mm shims. However, when you use 2.0deg block (1.0deg,1.5deg whatever all these kind of blocks) in "FR", you will have to add another 1.0mm so the total shims will be 3.75mm instead regular 2.75mm.

As long as you have regular "FR" block on your car, you are fine with 2.75mm total.

Please let me know if you need further info.
Thank you.
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Old 12-20-2009, 12:28 PM
  #18038  
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Originally Posted by Hi-LowBlow
Yes you are right cosmo,
Basically the TC (all cyclone series) needs total of 2.75mm shims. However, when you use 2.0deg block (1.0deg,1.5deg whatever all these kind of blocks) in "FR", you will have to add another 1.0mm so the total shims will be 3.75mm instead regular 2.75mm.

As long as you have regular "FR" block on your car, you are fine with 2.75mm total.

Please let me know if you need further info.
Thank you.
(1) I'm using a 1.5 deg pivot block in front, instead of the kit 2.5 deg pivot block. I'm assuming you mean something else with the statement above?

(2) Is this related to the physical modification mentioned earlier in the thread where (I think?) it talked about drilling new holes (I think to get the sus arm hinge pins slightly further apart) ??

Cheers
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Old 12-20-2009, 12:37 PM
  #18039  
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(1) I'm using a 1.5 deg pivot block in front, instead of the kit 2.5 deg pivot block. I'm assuming you mean something else with the statement above?

"FR" block i mentioned was "Front Rear" block. The 1.5 deg block you have on your car would be "FF" (Front Front) but with the modification, we use 2.0 deg block in "FR" (Front Rear) position.

(2) Is this related to the physical modification mentioned earlier in the thread where (I think?) it talked about drilling new holes (I think to get the sus arm hinge pins slightly further apart) ??

Yes, drill two holes to use the toe-in block in "FR" position and add another 1.0mm shim on the hinge pin as there will be 1.0mm gap when you use toe-in block for both "FF" and "FR".

Hope you could understand this.
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Old 12-20-2009, 12:41 PM
  #18040  
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Originally Posted by Hi-LowBlow
(1) I'm using a 1.5 deg pivot block in front, instead of the kit 2.5 deg pivot block. I'm assuming you mean something else with the statement above?

"FR" block i mentioned was "Front Rear" block. The 1.5 deg block you have on your car would be "FF" (Front Front) but with the modification, we use 2.0 deg block in "FR" (Front Rear) position.

(2) Is this related to the physical modification mentioned earlier in the thread where (I think?) it talked about drilling new holes (I think to get the sus arm hinge pins slightly further apart) ??

Yes, drill two holes to use the toe-in block in "FR" position and add another 1.0mm shim on the hinge pin as there will be 1.0mm gap when you use toe-in block for both "FF" and "FR".

Hope you could understand this.
Ok, this makes things clearer
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Old 12-20-2009, 12:56 PM
  #18041  
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Originally Posted by Hi-LowBlow
(1) I'm using a 1.5 deg pivot block in front, instead of the kit 2.5 deg pivot block. I'm assuming you mean something else with the statement above?

"FR" block i mentioned was "Front Rear" block. The 1.5 deg block you have on your car would be "FF" (Front Front) but with the modification, we use 2.0 deg block in "FR" (Front Rear) position.

(2) Is this related to the physical modification mentioned earlier in the thread where (I think?) it talked about drilling new holes (I think to get the sus arm hinge pins slightly further apart) ??

Yes, drill two holes to use the toe-in block in "FR" position and add another 1.0mm shim on the hinge pin as there will be 1.0mm gap when you use toe-in block for both "FF" and "FR".

Hope you could understand this.

Now I see it but I don't understand why? what is the difference between running the stock stuff and 2* in ff and fr? Is it adding to front wheel track?
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Old 12-20-2009, 02:29 PM
  #18042  
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Originally Posted by balistic
Now I see it but I don't understand why? what is the difference between running the stock stuff and 2* in ff and fr? Is it adding to front wheel track?
It widens the inner pivot block points which stiffens the car up on that end. Just as narrowing up the inner hinge pins makes it softer and promotes more roll.

Track width is widened, but the narrow hexes help to bring it back in a bit.
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Old 12-20-2009, 02:45 PM
  #18043  
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Originally Posted by ShaunMac
It widens the inner pivot block points which stiffens the car up on that end.
...
(1) Just out of curiosity, how does this compare with a "stock" TC and using solid ATC posts ??

(2) I have tried solid ATC posts to firm up the front, and the change is quite noticeable. However, I am still experimenting. Noting that I have included a cut top deck as a permanent change to my TC.

Cheers
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Old 12-20-2009, 03:16 PM
  #18044  
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Originally Posted by ShaunMac
It widens the inner pivot block points which stiffens the car up on that end. Just as narrowing up the inner hinge pins makes it softer and promotes more roll.

Track width is widened, but the narrow hexes help to bring it back in a bit.
pulling the track back in like that affects where the steering center line hits the tire contact patch too, is that the gain? If it's not to gain track width.

How does it stiffen the car? I would think it would lay the shock down a small degree and soften it.
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Old 12-20-2009, 05:20 PM
  #18045  
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Originally Posted by balistic
pulling the track back in like that affects where the steering center line hits the tire contact patch too, is that the gain? If it's not to gain track width.

How does it stiffen the car? I would think it would lay the shock down a small degree and soften it.
Changing the inner hinge pin width affects many things besides overall suspension stiffness. Yes, when you go wider on the hinge pins, it feels like the car has less roll even with softer springs but with this change, you are also changing the shock mounting position on the arm, camber link length and up/down suspension stroke.

I don't think we can say just stiffen or lighten the suspension that easy.
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