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Old 10-24-2009, 10:30 AM   #17731
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If anyone is interested... i have (2) black cyclones for sale. PM me
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Old 10-24-2009, 04:07 PM   #17732
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Originally Posted by jag88 View Post
While on the subject of shocks, does using a vacuum pump make a difference when building the shocks ? I know what it does, I watch a fellow racer at my track use one and he swears by it. I have built shocks and rebuilt them a month later and found no air bubbles inside without using a pump or even letting them sit for for any length of time before putting the cap on.
Thanks.
It justs allow you to rebuild your shocks a little faster. I personally don't have one. I think they are really cool, but whenever I see one they are kind of expensive for my taste lol. I just borrow a buddy's if I'm in a rush.

I do know that if you create too much of a vacuum it will suck air right through the bottom of the shock and through the orings. I've always found just pumping them up and down a few times to release any air bubbles hiding in there works just fine. I just let the shocks sit on a shock rebuild stand for a few minutes before finishing up the rebuild.

-Korey
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Old 10-25-2009, 07:24 AM   #17733
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Questions?? NEW HIGH GRIP TRACK

Hi Korey,
Another tricky set of questions. I have been running on a low grip track, and have just started running on a newly refurbished high grip track.

(1) The low grip track now seems under control, with a setup similar to Hara at RROC 2008.

(2) The new track is turning into a challenge for most drivers. The asphalt surface has been cleaned up, and the track has been repainted with a Boral anti-slip paint (like one might use around a swimming pool). Another club in Sydney used this paint about a year or so ago, and it worked out ok after a few months. Allegedly a high grip surface. It was painted with a paint roller, and apparently the stipples left by the roller actually create more grip for about the first 3 months, until they are worn down.

(3) The main problem is trying to get power down to the rear wheels. Unless the car is in a perfectly straight line, the rear end just rotates around under the mildest of power. My end of day setup seemed the best of a sub-optimal lot, but I don’t feel comfortable running an RC that is lower in the rear, than the front (I'm thinking there must be a better, more widely used setup to get around this challenge).

(4) I'm tending to coast around the corners because of the rear end rotation when powering on. After about an 8+ minute practice run, there is a lot of rubber inside the body shell.

(5) NEW HIGH GRIP TRACK SETUP (end of day setup):
Drive: ________F=SpoolV3 + R=Diff
Ackermann: ___F=4.0
Shock Spring: __F=Pink + R=Silver (* tried F=Silver + R=Silver & tried F=Pink + R=Blue*)
Shock Oil: _____F=AE60 + R=AE35 + FullRebound + Foam (tried F=45 + R=35 *)
Shock Piston: __F+R=2hole,1.2mm
Shock Position:_F=3+2 + R=3+3 (* tried R=3+5 *)
Camber Link: ___F=2.0 + R=1.0 (* tried F=3.0 + R=0.0 etc *)
Camber: _______F=1.5 + R=1.5 (* tried F=2.0 + R=1.0 *)
Toe Block: _____F=1.5 + R=3.0
Toe: __________F=+0.5
Block Shims: ___F=2.0 + R=1.5 (* tried F=1.0 + R=1.5 *)
Wheelbase: ____F=2.0_0.5 + R=2.0_0.5 + R(hub)=2.0_0.5
Swaybar: ______F=1.4 + R=1.2
Swaybar Gap: __F=1.0 + R=2.0
Downstops: ____F=9.0 + R=9.0 (* tried F=8.5 + R=8.0 *)
Ride Height: ____F=5.5 + R=5.5 (* tried F=5.0 + R=5.5 *)
Middle Deck: ____Cut
Body: __________Mazda6
Tires: ___________Sorex32 + B_MediumInserts + SpeedmindRims

(6) I did not rotate the tires. The rear tires are looking ok, however, the front tires have worn through to the canvas in a couple of spots, and the inner rim of the front tires are split.

(7) The track is tight and technical, except for a sweeper onto the main straight (and then into a 180 degree hairpin at end of straight).

(8) I'm not 100% certain (so take this with a bit of scepticism) but I think the car gets through the corner entry and maybe middle but then rotates if slight braking or on power is applied. Might even be pushing mid-corner.

Any suggestions GREATLY appreciated.
Cheers
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Last edited by cosmo1974; 10-26-2009 at 03:11 AM.
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Old 10-26-2009, 12:51 PM   #17734
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmo1974 View Post
Hi Korey,
Another tricky set of questions. I have been running on a low grip track, and have just started running on a newly refurbished high grip track.

(1) The low grip track now seems under control, with a setup similar to Hara at RROC 2008.

(2) The new track is turning into a challenge for most drivers. The asphalt surface has been cleaned up, and the track has been repainted with a Boral anti-slip paint (like one might use around a swimming pool). Another club in Sydney used this paint about a year or so ago, and it worked out ok after a few months. Allegedly a high grip surface. It was painted with a paint roller, and apparently the stipples left by the roller actually create more grip for about the first 3 months, until they are worn down.

(3) The main problem is trying to get power down to the rear wheels. Unless the car is in a perfectly straight line, the rear end just rotates around under the mildest of power. My end of day setup seemed the best of a sub-optimal lot, but I donít feel comfortable running an RC that is lower in the rear, than the front (I'm thinking there must be a better, more widely used setup to get around this challenge).

(4) I'm tending to coast around the corners because of the rear end rotation when powering on. After about an 8+ minute practice run, there is a lot of rubber inside the body shell.

(5) NEW HIGH GRIP TRACK SETUP (end of day setup):
Drive: ________F=SpoolV3 + R=Diff
Ackermann: ___F=4.0
Shock Spring: __F=Pink + R=Silver (* tried F=Silver + R=Silver & tried F=Pink + R=Blue*)
Shock Oil: _____F=AE60 + R=AE35 + FullRebound + Foam (tried F=45 + R=35 *)
Shock Piston: __F+R=2hole,1.2mm
Shock Position:_F=3+2 + R=3+3 (* tried R=3+5 *)
Camber Link: ___F=2.0 + R=1.0 (* tried F=3.0 + R=0.0 etc *)
Camber: _______F=1.5 + R=1.5 (* tried F=2.0 + R=1.0 *)
Toe Block: _____F=1.5 + R=3.0
Toe: __________F=+0.5
Block Shims: ___F=2.0 + R=1.5 (* tried F=1.0 + R=1.5 *)
Wheelbase: ____F=2.0_0.5 + R=2.0_0.5 + R(hub)=2.0_0.5
Swaybar: ______F=1.4 + R=1.2
Swaybar Gap: __F=1.0 + R=2.0
Downstops: ____F=9.0 + R=9.0 (* tried F=8.5 + R=8.0 *)
Ride Height: ____F=5.5 + R=5.5 (* tried F=5.0 + R=5.5 *)
Middle Deck: ____Cut
Body: __________Mazda6
Tires: ___________Sorex32 + B_MediumInserts + SpeedmindRims

(6) I did not rotate the tires. The rear tires are looking ok, however, the front tires have worn through to the canvas in a couple of spots, and the inner rim of the front tires are split.

(7) The track is tight and technical, except for a sweeper onto the main straight (and then into a 180 degree hairpin at end of straight).

(8) I'm not 100% certain (so take this with a bit of scepticism) but I think the car gets through the corner entry and maybe middle but then rotates if slight braking or on power is applied. Might even be pushing mid-corner.

Any suggestions GREATLY appreciated.
Cheers
You know, I remember driving on a track that was done on a tennis court. It had a sand impregnated paint, somewhat similar to what you are talking about. It felt like it always had awesome grip in the middle of the corner when it grips the abrasive surface, but then I think it actually RIPS the sand off the surface of the paint. After that it's like running on marbles.

To be honest... I never figured out how to make the back end stick better. I would loosen the front droop screws to allow more weight to transfer to the back. Maybe stand up the rear shocks and run a softer spring too. That will allow for more rear end grip typically, and take the swaybar off if that still doesn't help. Hopefully that helps a little bit.

-Korey
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Old 10-26-2009, 02:18 PM   #17735
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Korey Harbke View Post
You know, I remember driving on a track that was done on a tennis court. It had a sand impregnated paint, somewhat similar to what you are talking about. It felt like it always had awesome grip in the middle of the corner when it grips the abrasive surface, but then I think it actually RIPS the sand off the surface of the paint. After that it's like running on marbles.

To be honest... I never figured out how to make the back end stick better. I would loosen the front droop screws to allow more weight to transfer to the back. Maybe stand up the rear shocks and run a softer spring too. That will allow for more rear end grip typically, and take the swaybar off if that still doesn't help. Hopefully that helps a little bit.

-Korey
Korey,

(1) Thanks, I'll try your suggestions.

(2) I checked the manufacturers literature which states "Boral Surface Coat is a blend of bitumen emulsion, fillers and polymers ...".
It is smooth, so I'm moderately sure (?) its not using sand, so something else unusual is going on.

(3) After I got home, I thought about playing with droop and standing rear shocks up, so I kind of know where you are coming from. Lets see if I have the logic correct.
--(a) By standing the rear shocks up they will not be as progressive, therefore a softer rear will stay softer as it is compressed. A layed down shock will get harder as it is compressed, which would not help the situation of a loose rear end while cornering. Is this correct ??
--(b) Front downstop screws less, to allow more weight transfer to the back under acceleration (as per your description).

(4) What about wider (or narrower) hex nuts?
If its wider, I could use a spacer.
Can you put the wider (or narrower) hex nuts just on one end of the car ??

(5) Is there a possibility that on (say) a tight left hand corner, the car is rolling to the point where the rear left wheel is lifting off the track, and all the weight is going to the rear right wheel, causing the rear to rotate ??
In this case, I would need to *reduce* the rear roll - or am I completely off the mark ??

(6) After the practice day, I heard that one driver was using about 1mm droop - almost static weight distribution to minimise weight transfer.
Not sure about this ??

Cheers
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Old 10-26-2009, 06:55 PM   #17736
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Originally Posted by STLNLST View Post
Go to bed.... Did you take a look at the set up changes I made to your set up? Man that was a fun race.
So this is where you've been hiding!!
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Old 10-26-2009, 08:14 PM   #17737
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I have been having a few issues with my WCE Cyclone suddenly spinning out on tight left hand corners recently and cant seem to figure out what is doing it.

I've played with setup (droop, ride height, diff settings,tyres, shock oil and springs) and can't seem to solve it. The car will be fine for a few laps then all of a sudden will spin out on a particular corner. After a while of taking that corner slower i can go hard again.

I'm not sure if it is tyres as it happens with 28,32 and 36's.

Before it started happening I changed to the alloy diff and changed the front drive shafts from the older type to the newer 61088.

I also noticed that the rear front toe block seems to have some scratches on the left side it where the steering linkage may have been hitting it.

Now I need to find some time to test all these things out, but has anyone had similar issues and could have any of the above be causing it.

thanks

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Old 10-26-2009, 08:38 PM   #17738
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Hi Dave, it could be caused by quite a few possible reasons.

Is your track asphalt or carpet? What were the track conditions when the problem occured? High grip, low grip, dusty?

Have you tried brand new tires?



Quote:
Originally Posted by OZDC View Post
I have been having a few issues with my WCE Cyclone suddenly spinning out on tight left hand corners recently and cant seem to figure out what is doing it.

I've played with setup (droop, ride height, diff settings,tyres, shock oil and springs) and can't seem to solve it. The car will be fine for a few laps then all of a sudden will spin out on a particular corner. After a while of taking that corner slower i can go hard again.

I'm not sure if it is tyres as it happens with 28,32 and 36's.

Before it started happening I changed to the alloy diff and changed the front drive shafts from the older type to the newer 61088.

I also noticed that the rear front toe block seems to have some scratches on the left side it where the steering linkage may have been hitting it.

Now I need to find some time to test all these things out, but has anyone had similar issues and could have any of the above be causing it.

thanks

Dave
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Old 10-26-2009, 08:52 PM   #17739
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Thanks Bill,

Its a med-high grip asphalt track with a few bumps.
New tyres don't fix it.

I realise it could be a million things but as this is something that has just started happening with the same setup and track it makes me wonder if it has something to do with the new diff or drive shafts, or maybe the steering linkage is hitting the toe block.


I'll be testing these out but I was wondering if anyone had similar issues.

thanks again

Dave
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Old 10-27-2009, 01:19 AM   #17740
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Hi Dave, if the problem was caused by mechanical problems such as the diff or drive shafts, you should be able to diagnose them at the bench. After you are sure all mechanical components are working properly, then only you focus on the setup. This way, at least you can narrow down the source of the problem.

From my experience, if the car spun out unexpectedly, the problem is most likely caused by one of the followings:

1) The rear end roll too much, relative to the front end. This usually occur when the traction is high.

2) The rear end roll too little, relative to the front end. This usually occur when the traction is low.

3) The tires wore unevenly. This could be caused by not swapping the tires correctly.

So, try new set of tires to eliminate #3, then pay attention to see if the problem was caused by #1 or #2.

Also try running more camber at the rear end, or increase camber change at the rear end relative to he front.

Remember, traction is generated by the interactions between the track surface and the tire surface, so always pay attention to how the set of tire is interacting with the track surface at that specific moment.

Post your setup here and I am sure a lot of guys could help give you some suggestions.

Hope the above helps



Quote:
Originally Posted by OZDC View Post
Thanks Bill,

Its a med-high grip asphalt track with a few bumps.
New tyres don't fix it.

I realise it could be a million things but as this is something that has just started happening with the same setup and track it makes me wonder if it has something to do with the new diff or drive shafts, or maybe the steering linkage is hitting the toe block.


I'll be testing these out but I was wondering if anyone had similar issues.

thanks again

Dave
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Old 10-27-2009, 07:38 AM   #17741
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Dave,

I had a similar problem on a local carpet track a few weeks ago. The car was pushing badly at some corners yet was spinning out at the rest. Turned out that chassis tweak was what was causing the problem. A local racer straightened it out for me and no further problems.

I realize there could be many things that may be causing the problem but it's worth checking if you haven't already.
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Old 10-27-2009, 11:22 AM   #17742
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Hi Dave,

Like the previous post said, chassis tweaked will cause a spin out problem. And if I'm you, I will also check every single part make sure they all in good condition, make sure there has no binding on the drive train, check every bearings, sway bar, and all the ball cup just for make sure besides the set up change. Hope this help.
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Old 10-27-2009, 11:57 AM   #17743
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I just finished building my new Cyclone TC. I haven't had a chance to race it yet, but I got to take it out to an open parking lot. Man, it is awesome. It's so much better than what I had been formally racing (HPI Pro 2)! I set it up with one of Korey's low traction parking lot setups, and it was glued to the unpreped asphalt. Can't wait to race it! I'll post some pics when I can.
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Old 10-27-2009, 07:49 PM   #17744
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Thanks for the suggestions guys.

I actually put a new chassis on it before last race meet and rebuilt it from the ground up. Every time I get a knock i check the top deck and tweak.

I had another look at the POM outdrives on the front spool last night. One was a bit 'grabby' so i replaced it.

Hopefully I can get to the track in the next week or so to test.

Dave
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Old 10-28-2009, 11:19 AM   #17745
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