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Old 07-27-2009, 06:46 AM   #17026
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Generally, I've found more arm sweep (bigger toe block up front) will give slightly less intial steering, but more steering at the apex, and exiting the turn. Less arm sweep (smaller toe block), will make the car more reactive, and have more initial response. The drawback is it will have less steering at the apex of the corner.

Now, some people have disagreed with me on this. I think a lot of it has to do how hard you actually go into the corner. The more the suspension is loaded, the more effect the arm sweep has it seems. So for modified when standing on the brakes, more arm sweep can make it feel like it has more intial steering like what decibles has explained. In spec racing when you are not on the brakes so much, it does how I have explained it previously. I've found it works like how I have explained more often though. It's definently worth a try though. See how it works for you, because the results can differ depending on driving style and the rest of your setup.

Hope that helps!

-Korey
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Old 07-27-2009, 06:56 AM   #17027
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Korey Harbke View Post
Arm sweep is a pretty cool adjustment. What it does is sweep the front arms back.

...

Now, more arm sweep (say... 2.5 deg), will give you a slightly smoother car entering the corner, but will make the car steer a lot more around the apex of the corner.

Less arm sweep (like 1 or 1.5 deg) will do the opposite. You'll have a slightly more aggressive car entering the corner, and smoother through the middle and exit of the corner.

...

-Korey
Korey,

(1) A while back you provided some info on arm sweep.

(2) When I set my TC up (using a modified Hara setup), I had to use a 1.5 degree pivot block on the front, and a 2.5 degree pivot block on the back (due to lack of ingredients at the time).

(3) I now have another 1.5 degree pivot block and would like to know what affect it will have on the car if I change the REAR 2.5 deg block, to a 1.5 deg block ?
Acknowledging that the whole rear suspension is swept, and not just the rear hub (which adjusts the rear toe effect).

(4) For completeness, the changes I made from the Hara RROC setup are as follows:
-- more rear roll (rear shock sus arm position > Hara=2, Mine=3 )
-- more damping in front shocks (oil adjustment > Hara=30, Mine=40)
-- less progressive effect on front swaybar (gap adjustment > Hara=2.5, Mine=1.0)
-- more weight over rear (shifting rear arms via hub shims > Hara=1.0+0.7, Mine=0.75+2.0)
-- bit lower rear RC (top shims adjustment > Hara=1.0, Mine=2.0) ** needed this to plant rear end at the track **
-- front arm sweep (pivot block > Hara=1.0, Mine=1.5)
-- rear arm sweep (pivot block > Hara=1.5, Mine=2.5)
-- less rear end flex (middle deck state > Hara=cut, Mine=solid)

Thanks in advance
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Last edited by cosmo1974; 07-27-2009 at 07:20 AM.
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Old 07-27-2009, 07:35 AM   #17028
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actually you are misreading a few items on the setup sheet.
Quote:
(4) For completeness, the changes I made from the Hara RROC setup are as follows:
-- more rear roll (rear shock sus arm position > Hara=2, Mine=3 )
-- more damping in front shocks (oil adjustment > Hara=30, Mine=40)setup sheets says 40losi front and back
-- less progressive effect on front swaybar (gap adjustment > Hara=2.5, Mine=1.0)
-- more weight over rear (shifting rear arms via hub shims > Hara=1.0+0.7, Mine=0.75+2.0)
-- bit lower rear RC (top shims adjustment > Hara=1.0, Mine=2.0) ** needed this to plant rear end at the track **
-- front arm sweep (pivot block > Hara=1.0, Mine=1.5)
-- rear arm sweep (pivot block > Hara=1.5, Mine=2.5) hara uses 1.5 shims under the pivot block for rollcentre and a 3.0 pivot block on the sheet
-- less rear end flex (middle deck state > Hara=cut, Mine=solid)

Thanks in advance
but actually i like his titc setup better as a starting point
http://www.petitrc.com/reglages/hotb...TC20090222.pdf
except for the ackerman and shock oil

and finally you have to remember the rear block controls the rear toe-angle which i think will be a governing effect over arm sweep.
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Old 07-27-2009, 08:29 AM   #17029
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomracing View Post
actually you are misreading a few items on the setup sheet.


but actually i like his titc setup better as a starting point
http://www.petitrc.com/reglages/hotb...TC20090222.pdf
except for the ackerman and shock oil

and finally you have to remember the rear block controls the rear toe-angle which i think will be a governing effect over arm sweep.
(1) Thanks, I've double checked and incorporated the corrections:
-- more rear roll (rear shock sus arm position > Hara=2, Mine=3 )
-- less damping in rear shocks (oil adjustment > Hara=40, Mine=30)
-- less progressive effect on front swaybar (gap adjustment > Hara=2.5, Mine=1.0)
-- more weight over rear (shifting rear arms via hub shims > Hara=1.0+0.7, Mine=0.75+2.0)
-- bit lower rear RC (top shims adjustment > Hara=1.0, Mine=2.0)
-- front arm sweep (pivot block > Hara=1.0, Mine=1.5)
-- rear arm sweep (pivot block > Hara=3.0, Mine=2.5)
-- less rear end flex (middle deck state > Hara=cut, Mine=solid)

(2) Based on the corrections, my original question is now a bit mute.

(3) The setup I am currently using has turned out significantly better than the kit setup.
I'll check out the link, and do some analysis / comparisons.

Thanks
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Old 07-27-2009, 09:01 AM   #17030
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Well, you will feel more the rear toe change than the "sweep" in the rear arms. But, since HB has released 1 deg aluminum rear hubs, you can actually play with this balance. Less rear toe just usually frees the back end up overall. More will usually create more rear grip, and allow the car to turn in a bit crisper too. The information I have provided for arm sweep is mainly just talking about the front end of the car. But I will elaborate on what it can do for you in the rear, since we now have 1 deg rear hubs available.

Currently, most on the Cyclone run all inboard rear toe in. This is adjusted through the suspension block. If I have a 0 deg outer hub, and 3 deg of toe at the block, thats 3 deg of inboard toe, and 0 deg outboard. This gives the maximum amount of forward grip comming out of a corner, and allows he car to turn in a little quicker entering the corner as well.

Now, if we use the 1 deg hubs we now have 1 deg of outboard toe in. So lets say we want 3 deg of total toe in for comparison to the previous situation I have explained. You will need to run a 2 deg rear toe block, and 1 deg outer hub. This gives you a total of 3 deg of toe in still, but it's just distributed between the inside and outside. Generally, this setup will give slightly smoother turn in, and more on power steering through the middle and exit of the corner. I like to use this kind of setup on REALLY high bite tracks (foam tires on carpet typically) since it smooths the car out a bit, and helps the rear end rotate a little more without it feeling unstable. You do loose forward grip though, so in some situations when the grip isn't high enough it can be a disadvantage.

-Korey
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Old 07-27-2009, 09:12 AM   #17031
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Korey Harbke View Post
Well, you will feel more the rear toe change than the "sweep" in the rear arms. But, since HB has released 1 deg aluminum rear hubs, you can actually play with this balance. Less rear toe just usually frees the back end up overall. More will usually create more rear grip, and allow the car to turn in a bit crisper too. The information I have provided for arm sweep is mainly just talking about the front end of the car. But I will elaborate on what it can do for you in the rear, since we now have 1 deg rear hubs available.

Currently, most on the Cyclone run all inboard rear toe in. This is adjusted through the suspension block. If I have a 0 deg outer hub, and 3 deg of toe at the block, thats 3 deg of inboard toe, and 0 deg outboard. This gives the maximum amount of forward grip comming out of a corner, and allows he car to turn in a little quicker entering the corner as well.

Now, if we use the 1 deg hubs we now have 1 deg of outboard toe in. So lets say we want 3 deg of total toe in for comparison to the previous situation I have explained. You will need to run a 2 deg rear toe block, and 1 deg outer hub. This gives you a total of 3 deg of toe in still, but it's just distributed between the inside and outside. Generally, this setup will give slightly smoother turn in, and more on power steering through the middle and exit of the corner. I like to use this kind of setup on REALLY high bite tracks (foam tires on carpet typically) since it smooths the car out a bit, and helps the rear end rotate a little more without it feeling unstable. You do loose forward grip though, so in some situations when the grip isn't high enough it can be a disadvantage.

-Korey
(1) Current track is considered low to medium grip.
(2) However, a new refurbished track, which will be opening in about a month or two, has applied a special paint to the surface. It will generate LOTS of grip (at least initially) until the track beds in (based on others experience with the same paint). So the tip may be useful even with rubbers on asphalt ...

Thanks
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Old 07-27-2009, 10:00 AM   #17032
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Is there any advantage in running an aluminium rear hub carrier (such as the 3R-CY-23-PU) over the kit hub carrier (ignoring the bling factor)?

Thanks in advance
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Old 07-27-2009, 10:09 AM   #17033
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Originally Posted by cosmo1974 View Post
Is there any advantage in running an aluminium rear hub carrier (such as the 3R-CY-23-PU) over the kit hub carrier (ignoring the bling factor)?

Thanks in advance

Besides looking great they also ensure that the ball studs don't strip out. They are obviously stronger, but also a little heavier.

You can also get the rear hubs with 0* or 1* toe as an option.
http://www.hotbodiesonline.com/products/en/67696.html
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Old 07-27-2009, 12:52 PM   #17034
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hi i have a moore speed cyclone , is there a big difference in running the moore bulk heads and shock towers over the tc ones , dont realy want to lay out alot of money if there isnt .....


thanks
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Old 07-27-2009, 03:34 PM   #17035
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Originally Posted by mwoods View Post
hi i have a moore speed cyclone , is there a big difference in running the moore bulk heads and shock towers over the tc ones , dont realy want to lay out alot of money if there isnt .....


thanks
Save your $$$ and just keep the stuff you have. The main bulkheads are the same as the TC bulkheads. The TC bulkheads just don't have the rounded edges. The upper bulkheads on the Tc are a little stronger, but they have fewer camber link position options. The TC bulkheads also require you to run lowered shock towers to maintain the same geometry as they are a little taller.

Hope that helps!

-Korey
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Old 07-27-2009, 05:22 PM   #17036
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Originally Posted by STLNLST View Post
Better watch what you say about those tire's. I don't want you receiving the same pm's I got after the Reedy The Speedworld cup was the bomb bro. The tire's that were actually picked for the Reedy worked awesome. If people were happy with the other brand.....they would have loved these. Price was $7 cheaper and they can be used for normal club racing after the event. But don't listen to me since it was stated that I sabotage races by speaking the truth
dude... you got a PM.. get back at me asap.
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Old 07-27-2009, 06:20 PM   #17037
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomracing View Post
actually you are misreading a few items on the setup sheet.


but actually i like his titc setup better as a starting point
http://www.petitrc.com/reglages/hotb...TC20090222.pdf
except for the ackerman and shock oil

and finally you have to remember the rear block controls the rear toe-angle which i think will be a governing effect over arm sweep.
(1) I've had a look at the Hara setup for TITC (@ RCS) and compared to RROC (@ Speedworld).

(2) Is it fair to say (at least relatively):
-- Speedworld is lo-med grip ?
-- RCS is med-hi grip ?

I'm guessing thats the main factor for the setup differences.

(3) Anyone have some other opinion for the differences ?
I'm interested in your thoughts (I know nothing first hand about the tracks).

Cheers
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Old 07-27-2009, 08:20 PM   #17038
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmo1974 View Post
(1) I've had a look at the Hara setup for TITC (@ RCS) and compared to RROC (@ Speedworld).

(2) Is it fair to say (at least relatively):
-- Speedworld is lo-med grip ?
-- RCS is med-hi grip ?

I'm guessing thats the main factor for the setup differences.

(3) Anyone have some other opinion for the differences ?
I'm interested in your thoughts (I know nothing first hand about the tracks).

Cheers
Hi Cosmo1974, I've never been in RCS but Speedworld, I would say is Med-Hi grip.

P.S. At Reedy Race 2008, all the invitational driver was not allowed to use any traction compound for the race.

Hope this info. help.
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Old 07-27-2009, 09:09 PM   #17039
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Speedworld's grip was pretty high. But Hara's setup reflects that he didnt use any traction compound on his tires. They weren't even allowed tire warmers. They had their tires bolted on right at the tech table, and they went out on the track.

RCS, I have never been there. But it is in Thailand... And a lot of the changes I see on Hara's car are to tone it down so he doesn't overheat the tires. That's why he's running such thick shock oil, and the shocks are layed way down, and other changes. His TITC setup is better suited for a high grip track, in extremely hot weather, with a pretty flowing layout.

-Korey
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Old 07-27-2009, 09:59 PM   #17040
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dude... you got a PM.. get back at me asap.
YGM
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