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Old 07-22-2009, 12:29 PM   #16906
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Originally Posted by balistic View Post
The big droop numbers are measured to the center of the pin, not under the arm.
Thanks.
That measuring technique is much nicer.
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Old 07-22-2009, 04:08 PM   #16907
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Originally Posted by Korey Harbke View Post
This is actually a really cool adjustment. The bigger that gap is, the more the swaybar is slanted. The more slant it has, the less "direct" it will feel. It becomes more progressive, so it will give the feeling of a softer swaybar initially, then get stiffer further into the turn.

I run 2.0mm up front, and 3.0mm in the back almost everywhere. You might need to use a longer ball stud to make sure it has enough thread in the swaybar link.

-Korey
Thanks Korey for posting this. This is exactly what i explained to you about the gap between the sway bar links BUT it is just from my experiences so others may feel differently. I just wanted to share my thought. (I didn't know Korey will post this to tell everyone!!)

Thanks,
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Old 07-22-2009, 04:15 PM   #16908
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internal secrets being leaked zomggggg
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Old 07-22-2009, 07:17 PM   #16909
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Originally Posted by Hi-LowBlow View Post
Thanks Korey for posting this. This is exactly what i explained to you about the gap between the sway bar links BUT it is just from my experiences so others may feel differently. I just wanted to share my thought. (I didn't know Korey will post this to tell everyone!!)

Thanks,
Hi Hiro San, Korey, actually I have another experience want to share beside your's which is really good option for setting up the swaybar. On mine's (and friends) other thought is we could use it for tunning the sway bar raise up more evenly on both side. That is a lot easier for us to tune it compare to the old style's.

Out of the topic, I personally really please for everybody if we can share our experiences more often on here so we could improve alot not only driving but also tunning and building it acuate especially for some new Cyclone drivers.

THANKS.
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Old 07-22-2009, 07:58 PM   #16910
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I am sorry but there are just way to many ways to tune myself into a hole on current Touring cars!.
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Old 07-22-2009, 08:31 PM   #16911
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Originally Posted by EJ20 View Post
Hi Hiro San, Korey, actually I have another experience want to share beside your's which is really good option for setting up the swaybar. On mine's (and friends) other thought is we could use it for tunning the sway bar raise up more evenly on both side. That is a lot easier for us to tune it compare to the old style's.

Out of the topic, I personally really please for everybody if we can share our experiences more often on here so we could improve alot not only driving but also tunning and building it acuate especially for some new Cyclone drivers.

THANKS.
Understanding the theory a little better will help improve setup, and then driving. I've taken a lot more interest in the last couple of months since I purchased my TC. There are only two major references you need:

(1) Hudy Setup Book. However, the Xray T2 Setup Book is 98% in common and is available for download from the Xray site (pdf).

(2) RC Car Handling - theory (http://home.scarlet.be/~be067749/58/)

Read and understand these two references and you will be the local pro

Cheers
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Old 07-22-2009, 08:44 PM   #16912
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Originally Posted by Hi-LowBlow View Post
Thanks Korey for posting this. This is exactly what i explained to you about the gap between the sway bar links BUT it is just from my experiences so others may feel differently. I just wanted to share my thought. (I didn't know Korey will post this to tell everyone!!)

Thanks,
Well, I did test it myself and I felt the same thing. So... they can blame me if it's wrong . Since the swaybar is not at a 90 deg angle to the motion of the arm, it will act softer when it is angled. Maybe if I get bored I'll draw some diagrams and some math equations to explain... actually... never mind. I don't feel like doing math in the summer .

So more gap in the rear seemed to make the rotate better in the rear going into the corner. When I reduced that gap, it actually locked in the rear end a little more. It will have varied results depending on how much grip is on the track though. For everyone, I'd say it's a worthwhile adjustment to at least try, and see what it does. Post your results here and let us know.

EJ20- I'm assuming that was actually the REAL intent of the design. It's to make slight tweaks to the swaybar to make sure it acts evenly on both sides of the car. Plus you can make much finer adjustments with the new mounting system, compared with the old.

-Korey
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Old 07-22-2009, 08:56 PM   #16913
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Originally Posted by DG Designs View Post
I am sorry but there are just way to many ways to tune myself into a hole on current Touring cars!.
It is true, touring cars are very complicated. I don't mess with the really odd ball adjustments very often though. Usually I'll do it once, then leave it the same for any other setup I use. Many of the adjustments are so small on a touring car, just doing the major things (springs, oil, position, droop) is all you need most of the time. As long as you have a solid base setup, you should be fine. Also making sure tweak and ride height are correct are commonly missed things that can make or break a car.

The cyclone is actually a little more simplistic than some other cars. Even some of those manufactures of more adjustable cars have recognized that and simplified their cars some.
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Old 07-22-2009, 09:36 PM   #16914
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Originally Posted by Korey Harbke View Post
Well, I did test it myself and I felt the same thing. So... they can blame me if it's wrong . Since the swaybar is not at a 90 deg angle to the motion of the arm, it will act softer when it is angled. Maybe if I get bored I'll draw some diagrams and some math equations to explain... actually... never mind. I don't feel like doing math in the summer .


-Korey
I can see if the angle of the bar is away from the angle of the arm the leverage would go down. What I don't understand is how this softness is only realized in the initial movement becoming stiffer later in the turn? or with more body roll? does this work with rubber/pavement? Or carpet?
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Old 07-22-2009, 10:46 PM   #16915
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Originally Posted by balistic View Post
I can see if the angle of the bar is away from the angle of the arm the leverage would go down. What I don't understand is how this softness is only realized in the initial movement becoming stiffer later in the turn? or with more body roll? does this work with rubber/pavement? Or carpet?
What I have found when running a spool, when you make the rear end of the car roll a lot, it actually creates MORE steering. It sounds really odd, and it took me a long time to stop being stubborn and accept it. At the reedy race, I kept stiffening the rear end to get more steering, but it would almost always have the opposite effect. When I softened the rear end, and let the car roll around more. the ending result was a car that had good rotation, but was still very stable. I'm sure this depends on how much grip is on the track, because in low grip conditions it always seems the typical train of thought works.

Anyway, a lot of times on smooth/high grip tracks, thicker swaybars in the rear of the car almost always create more rear grip. My only thought is, it keeps the rear end from dumping over so much, and prevents the rear end from loosing grip.

So when the gap is increased on the rear, the swaybar is basically a little softer, then stiffens up. To me, the car had a lot more initial steering into the corner, but through the middle and exit it mellowed out a bit, and the rear end was more stable through the rest of the corner. Going off of previous experiences, it feels as though the swaybar starts of softer, then gets stiffer. I could be wrong though, it could just be softer all around. But from the previous experiences I've had, that's the best way I could explain it.

Using fewer shims, it just feels as though the swaybar acts like it normally does. It doesn't really change through the corner so much. That's mainly why I say it feels more "linear".

I've mainly only been recently fiddling with this, so on asphalt. Carpet is pretty non existent here in the summer.

-Korey
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Old 07-23-2009, 04:26 AM   #16916
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Korey Harbke View Post
This is actually a really cool adjustment. The bigger that gap is, the more the swaybar is slanted. The more slant it has, the less "direct" it will feel. It becomes more progressive, so it will give the feeling of a softer swaybar initially, then get stiffer further into the turn.

I run 2.0mm up front, and 3.0mm in the back almost everywhere. You might need to use a longer ball stud to make sure it has enough thread in the swaybar link.

-Korey
i'm assuming you mean the 'gap' between the end of the swap bar and the mount to the arm?

If so, when you bring it that far forward, don't you rub on the front drive shafts???
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Old 07-23-2009, 06:38 AM   #16917
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It's the length of the linkage that connects the swaybar to the suspension arm. There is a ball stud there and you can screw it in, or out to adjust for swaybar tweak, and "swaybar rake".

-Korey
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Old 07-23-2009, 08:56 AM   #16918
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Originally Posted by Korey Harbke View Post
It's the length of the linkage that connects the swaybar to the suspension arm. There is a ball stud there and you can screw it in, or out to adjust for swaybar tweak, and "swaybar rake".

-Korey
so i'm guessing that won't work with the non-TC swaybar setup? Unless, of course, I change over to the TC setup
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Old 07-23-2009, 09:24 AM   #16919
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Originally Posted by k_bojar View Post
so i'm guessing that won't work with the non-TC swaybar setup? Unless, of course, I change over to the TC setup
You could still doing the same adjustment on the old style, but the way I did was by move the alum. ball forward or backward a little to adjust that. But it's very little that I can feel the differences, may be Hiro San can explain little more about it.
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Old 07-23-2009, 11:00 AM   #16920
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i run these packs in my cyclone without any problem. i had to remove part of the underside of the right hand side bracket as others did and also a bit on the back of the bracket to make the cells sit in the middle of the battery slots.

to keep the offset from the motor gear i used one of the plastic servo mounts with a cap screw with the plastic washer. there is a screw opening in the middle of the chassis available for that.

balance weight wise:
for the tcspec with orion combination i put 40grams on the side of the pack. that got it close enough for me.
now i am going to run 10.5 with a gm120. here the esc will sit closer to the middle of the chassis so i got it down to 30gram on the pack and the car is in perfect balance.

if you want i can take some shots later

Thanks for sharing Tom. How do you keep the SMC pack from sliding out of the car, since it doesn't have any bumps at the bottom?
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