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Old 06-30-2009, 08:21 PM   #16711
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I'm purple again
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Old 06-30-2009, 08:23 PM   #16712
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You never left purple

Man I am fighting temptation very hard right now. I need to raise some cash for a project and im trying my best to not sell my sedan before I even run it.
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Old 07-01-2009, 01:49 AM   #16713
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Korey Harbke View Post
I would think less arm sweep would give more ackerman. It would be like moving the inner pivot points of the steering rod back (less shims).

...

-Korey
(1) The T2 setup book recommends the following:
-- More Ackermann for low to medium grip conditions
-- Less Ackermann for medium to high grip conditions

Why is this so
Does this always hold true

(2) The outdoor asphalt track I am running on is considered to be a low grip track.
Therefore more Ackermann should be better

(3) I also noticed that the Hara setup has the front and rear shocks more inclined than the kit setup.
(a) The Hudy setup book indicates the following for this setup:
-- Makes the spring and damping softer
-- Makes the car more progressive, giving a smoother feel and more lateral grip
-- When all 4 shocks are inclined it makes the car very easy to drive, and it feels like the car has more grip, but it is not always the fastest.
(b) The Hudy setup book also states the following when the rear is more inclined than the front:
-- Makes the car feel aggressive turning into a corner, but most of the time the car will have slightly less steering.
-- Car will have abundant lateral grip in the rear, so turning radius wont be very tight
(c) What does "more progressive" actually mean in practice

(4) The track I am running on with the TC is about 1000' in length, has a 210' straight, and has another high speed section which goes abruptly into a very tight "S" section (everyone has to stand on the brakes and drive very slowing in the first part of the "S"). It is considered a low grip track by Australian standards. Takeoff 32 tires, with medium/blue inserts are popular. The 10.5 BL are quite fast (especially with TEKIN RS Pro + Boost), and only slightly slower than the modified 4/4.5T BL class.

(5) I like the idea of running the shocks more inclined, and probably rear more inclined than front.
Does this make sense for this track
I'm also curious about other required changes that are directly related to using more inclined shocks (if any)

Many thanks in advance
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Old 07-01-2009, 08:44 AM   #16714
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmo1974 View Post
(1) The T2 setup book recommends the following:
-- More Ackermann for low to medium grip conditions
-- Less Ackermann for medium to high grip conditions

Why is this so
Does this always hold true

(2) The outdoor asphalt track I am running on is considered to be a low grip track.
Therefore more Ackermann should be better

(3) I also noticed that the Hara setup has the front and rear shocks more inclined than the kit setup.
(a) The Hudy setup book indicates the following for this setup:
-- Makes the spring and damping softer
-- Makes the car more progressive, giving a smoother feel and more lateral grip
-- When all 4 shocks are inclined it makes the car very easy to drive, and it feels like the car has more grip, but it is not always the fastest.
(b) The Hudy setup book also states the following when the rear is more inclined than the front:
-- Makes the car feel aggressive turning into a corner, but most of the time the car will have slightly less steering.
-- Car will have abundant lateral grip in the rear, so turning radius wont be very tight
(c) What does "more progressive" actually mean in practice

(4) The track I am running on with the TC is about 1000' in length, has a 210' straight, and has another high speed section which goes abruptly into a very tight "S" section (everyone has to stand on the brakes and drive very slowing in the first part of the "S"). It is considered a low grip track by Australian standards. Takeoff 32 tires, with medium/blue inserts are popular. The 10.5 BL are quite fast (especially with TEKIN RS Pro + Boost), and only slightly slower than the modified 4/4.5T BL class.

(5) I like the idea of running the shocks more inclined, and probably rear more inclined than front.
Does this make sense for this track
I'm also curious about other required changes that are directly related to using more inclined shocks (if any)

Many thanks in advance
u got a very very very big track ther... 1000' long..?
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Old 07-01-2009, 11:09 AM   #16715
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmo1974 View Post
(1) The T2 setup book recommends the following:
-- More Ackermann for low to medium grip conditions
-- Less Ackermann for medium to high grip conditions

Why is this so
Does this always hold true

(2) The outdoor asphalt track I am running on is considered to be a low grip track.
Therefore more Ackermann should be better

(3) I also noticed that the Hara setup has the front and rear shocks more inclined than the kit setup.
(a) The Hudy setup book indicates the following for this setup:
-- Makes the spring and damping softer
-- Makes the car more progressive, giving a smoother feel and more lateral grip
-- When all 4 shocks are inclined it makes the car very easy to drive, and it feels like the car has more grip, but it is not always the fastest.
(b) The Hudy setup book also states the following when the rear is more inclined than the front:
-- Makes the car feel aggressive turning into a corner, but most of the time the car will have slightly less steering.
-- Car will have abundant lateral grip in the rear, so turning radius wont be very tight
(c) What does "more progressive" actually mean in practice

(4) The track I am running on with the TC is about 1000' in length, has a 210' straight, and has another high speed section which goes abruptly into a very tight "S" section (everyone has to stand on the brakes and drive very slowing in the first part of the "S"). It is considered a low grip track by Australian standards. Takeoff 32 tires, with medium/blue inserts are popular. The 10.5 BL are quite fast (especially with TEKIN RS Pro + Boost), and only slightly slower than the modified 4/4.5T BL class.

(5) I like the idea of running the shocks more inclined, and probably rear more inclined than front.
Does this make sense for this track
I'm also curious about other required changes that are directly related to using more inclined shocks (if any)

Many thanks in advance
Shock position is a very interesting thing. Something I have been testing lately is how shock position changes tend to act differently when using a spool on asphalt. I have found that when the shocks are layed down a lot in the rear, in certain conditions, will actually free up the car through the middle of the corner and on power. When I stood the shocks up from that point, the car created more forward grip, but was a little more edgy.

As a general statement, what the xray book says is correct. But is it correct all the time? Not always. Sometimes you'll just have to try something, and forget what setup books say. I've had a lot of problems with that lately, but I'm starting to get used to it now LMAO.

Steering geometry is something I haven't messed with a whole lot on this car because I've liked the way it felt with 4mm on the center bell crank. Typically if you went to 2mm on the center bell crank, it will smooth steering out initially, but give a little more steering in the middle of the corner. This is because of the angle in the steering links. The straighter they are, the more aggressive the car will be initially, then smooth out through the rest of the corner. It can get more complicated though. It also depends on how much arm sweep you are running, and your wheelbase setting.

As a general statement, the more angled the steering links are, the smoother the car is initially, and can create a little more steering in the middle and exit of the corner. The straighter the links are, the more aggressive the car is right off center. If it feels a little too... "twitchy" you can remove some shims from the center bellcrank on our car. Different cars can react differently to this, and it all depends how the steering geometry is setup. The way I'm describing it here is what I have found on the cyclone, so it may or may not be applicable to other cars.

Hope that helps!

-Korey
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Last edited by Korey Harbke; 07-01-2009 at 11:37 AM.
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Old 07-01-2009, 11:38 AM   #16716
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Korey Harbke View Post
Shock position is a very interesting thing. Something I have been testing lately is how shock position changes tend to act differently when using a spool on asphalt. I have found that when the shocks are layed down a lot in the rear, in certain conditions, will actually free up the car through the middle of the corner and on power. When I stood the shocks up from that point, the car created more forward grip, but was a little more edgy.

As a general statement, what the xray book says is correct. But is it correct all the time? Not always. Sometimes you'll just have to try something, and forget what setup books say. I've had a lot of problems with that lately, but I'm starting to get used to it now LMAO.

Steering geometry is something I haven't messed with a whole lot on this car because I've liked the way it felt with 4mm on the center bell crank. Typically if you went to 2mm on the center bell crank, it will smooth steering out initially, but give a little more steering in the middle of the corner. This is because of the angle in the steering links. The straighter they are, the more aggressive the car will be initially, then smooth out through the rest of the corner. It can get more complicated though. It also depends on how much arm sweep you are running, and your wheelbase setting.

As a general statement, the more angled the steering links are, the smoother the car is initially, and can create a little more steering in the middle and exit of the corner. The straighter the links are, the more aggressive the car is right off center. If it feels a little too... "twitchy" you can remove some shims from the center bellcrank on our car. Different cars can react differently to this, and it all depends how the steering geometry is setup. The way I'm describing it here is what I have found on the cyclone, so it may or may not be applicable to other cars.

Hope that helps!

-Korey
Front arm spacing will be affected so be careful with that too when you play with the ackerman thing...
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Old 07-01-2009, 01:17 PM   #16717
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fly_wheel View Post
u got a very very very big track ther... 1000' long..?
(1) Originally designed for 5th scale.
Very nice though.

(2) I also run on an indoor asphalt track, in a different class.
Complete opposite.

Cheers
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Old 07-01-2009, 01:32 PM   #16718
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B18C Turbo View Post
how many CVD pins did you break? I never grease my CVD"s, just keep them clean and I've only broke 1 on my yokomo.
(1) Well not every race, just 5
I greased the CVDs and next race meet I did not break any.

(2) The local drivers have seen this before with some other cars as well (xray, phi, ...) but I'm not sure to what extent.

(3) The track is large and fast, is built on the side of a slight hill, and has an off camber hi speed corner, so maybe the CVDs are working overtime.

Cheers
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Old 07-01-2009, 01:52 PM   #16719
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Korey Harbke View Post
Shock position is a very interesting thing. Something I have been testing lately is how shock position changes tend to act differently when using a spool on asphalt. I have found that when the shocks are layed down a lot in the rear, in certain conditions, will actually free up the car through the middle of the corner and on power. When I stood the shocks up from that point, the car created more forward grip, but was a little more edgy.

As a general statement, what the xray book says is correct. But is it correct all the time? Not always. Sometimes you'll just have to try something, and forget what setup books say. I've had a lot of problems with that lately, but I'm starting to get used to it now LMAO.

Steering geometry is something I haven't messed with a whole lot on this car because I've liked the way it felt with 4mm on the center bell crank. Typically if you went to 2mm on the center bell crank, it will smooth steering out initially, but give a little more steering in the middle of the corner. This is because of the angle in the steering links. The straighter they are, the more aggressive the car will be initially, then smooth out through the rest of the corner. It can get more complicated though. It also depends on how much arm sweep you are running, and your wheelbase setting.

As a general statement, the more angled the steering links are, the smoother the car is initially, and can create a little more steering in the middle and exit of the corner. The straighter the links are, the more aggressive the car is right off center. If it feels a little too... "twitchy" you can remove some shims from the center bellcrank on our car. Different cars can react differently to this, and it all depends how the steering geometry is setup. The way I'm describing it here is what I have found on the cyclone, so it may or may not be applicable to other cars.

Hope that helps!

-Korey
Yes, thanks.
If I understand the theory a bit better I should (hopefully) be able to make more sensible changes at the track !!

Cheers
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Old 07-01-2009, 05:10 PM   #16720
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Originally Posted by STLNLST View Post
I'm purple again
When did you start liking Barney
Did Mr Inspriration introduce him to you...
Got tired of working on the blue car all the time??
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Old 07-01-2009, 07:49 PM   #16721
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Originally Posted by Team STPN View Post
When did you start liking Barney
Did Mr Inspriration introduce him to you...
Got tired of working on the blue car all the time??
If you ever get a chance to run Scotty's car you'll know why. I almost just cut him a check for the car with electronics. It felt that good
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Old 07-02-2009, 09:51 PM   #16722
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Hi guys,

So far im more than happy with my cyclone. Too bad we race on asphalt so under chassis its very "marked" lol !!! ...

I would like to replace full bearings with ceramics, can anyone here helpo me with wich measures and quantity i can do a full bearing rebuild ?

thanks a lot ...

Pato Concha
Chile - Southamerica
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Old 07-02-2009, 10:22 PM   #16723
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Originally Posted by Tabushi View Post
Hi guys,

So far im more than happy with my cyclone. Too bad we race on asphalt so under chassis its very "marked" lol !!! ...

I would like to replace full bearings with ceramics, can anyone here helpo me with wich measures and quantity i can do a full bearing rebuild ?

thanks a lot ...

Pato Concha
Chile - Southamerica

4- 10X15x4
8- 5x10x4
2- 4x8x3
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Old 07-02-2009, 11:01 PM   #16724
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Originally Posted by Scott B View Post
4- 10X15x4
8- 5x10x4
2- 4x8x3

Thanks a lot !!

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Southamerica
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Old 07-03-2009, 09:26 AM   #16725
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Steering geometry is something I haven't messed with a whole lot on this car because I've liked the way it felt with 4mm on the center bell crank. Typically if you went to 2mm on the center bell crank, it will smooth steering out initially, but give a little more steering in the middle of the corner. This is because of the angle in the steering links. The straighter they are, the more aggressive the car will be initially, then smooth out through the rest of the corner. It can get more complicated though. It also depends on how much arm sweep you are running, and your wheelbase setting.

As a general statement, the more angled the steering links are, the smoother the car is initially, and can create a little more steering in the middle and exit of the corner. The straighter the links are, the more aggressive the car is right off center. If it feels a little too... "twitchy" you can remove some shims from the center bellcrank on our car. Different cars can react differently to this, and it all depends how the steering geometry is setup. The way I'm describing it here is what I have found on the cyclone, so it may or may not be applicable to other cars.

Hope that helps!

-Korey[/QUOTE]


Nice explanation !!
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