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Old 06-22-2009, 07:33 PM   #16651
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Originally Posted by Korey Harbke View Post
I should have a report for you guys in the next few weeks. I'm waiting on my new radio to come in

-Korey
Hey Korey, I'm trying one of your setups and I see your droop settings were 9 in front and 8.5 In rear. I have my car on the Hudy 10mm support droop blocks and using the hudy droop gauge and measuring from where you say to. Is that correct? There's not a whole lot a droop? when using the droop gauge in the center of front arm I had to turn the droop gauge backwards, because it would hit the chassis if I went to 9 on the droop gauge.
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Old 06-22-2009, 09:12 PM   #16652
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No, i buy then, but i only tested to 60WT, is my next thing to make, Thanks.

Mild seven, thanks, i change all things for a convert it to a TC blue Edition, but i think is there something are diferent, maybe it's time to buy a new car.

Thanks, Luis C.
try the old upperdeck.....
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Old 06-22-2009, 09:21 PM   #16653
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Did it stiffen the car or flex more? ?
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try the old upperdeck.....
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Old 06-23-2009, 12:27 AM   #16654
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Originally Posted by luic View Post
Hello, i run with Cyclone a few years ago, my car is a Surikan Edition, but with a few updates, Diff Pro, TC chassis and upper deck, WC towers,...

But always, i feel the same problem, when the conditions are too hot, or variables, the car are litle unpredictable, a little loose, loses grip,...and i tested more things, but i never solve the problem, when the conditions arent too hot i have very good results in races, i think is a problem of setup, but i tested a lot of springs, oils, CG, RC positions, and the problem continue, i dont can to change the tyres, because are control tyres for all races, Sweep 36R.
Normally, the temps here are, from 30-35C to 40C, and the track are to 50-60C.
Sometimes,i think the chassis is made soft with the heat, and flex a lot of more and i think to change it, but the setup say when soften the car i have best results.
Actually, i run with silver-blue springs, and 55WT oil, 2 mm low pivot blocks, 2 - 1.5 mm in camber link, 1 - 1.5 camber,... the setup are pretty standard.

I need some help, i do not know that i am doing wrong.

Thanks, Luis C.
Luis,

your car sounds like it is going in the direction of what i am running to.
i've got a wce upgraded with the Tc chassis, main top deck and prodiff.

can you tell us the track size/grip level you run on? and what kind of power do you have in your car?
perhaps a complete setup post would make things more clear.

I don't have experience with such high temperatures running but I would think there are a few things that would need to be adjusted like shock oils
also. however i am quite sure the chassis plates will not start to soften at those temperatures. it is a epoxy carbon plate that will only age (harden) until temperatures where the epoxy will really melt but that is way above temperatures that can be reached in outdoor environment (direct flame contact for instance).

so if you lose grip after a few minutes racing you are either overheating your tires or your additive is not working long enough. if you are lose from the start you have a setup problem still.
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Old 06-23-2009, 12:30 AM   #16655
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dannybcaitlyn View Post
Hey Korey, I'm trying one of your setups and I see your droop settings were 9 in front and 8.5 In rear. I have my car on the Hudy 10mm support droop blocks and using the hudy droop gauge and measuring from where you say to. Is that correct? There's not a whole lot a droop? when using the droop gauge in the center of front arm I had to turn the droop gauge backwards, because it would hit the chassis if I went to 9 on the droop gauge.
I just put the car flat on the setup board and take the shocks and tires off. This way the suspension is totally free to move. Then when looking down the length of the car measure from the center of the hinge pin, down to the setup board. I've found it's easiest to just do this with a set of calipers, or a nice small precision ruler. You are looking at the hinge pin so the profile looks like a circle, and you are just measuring from the center of that circle, to the setup board. The arm has nothing to do with the way I measure droop on this car now. This is the way all of the worlds team measures as it takes inconsistencies from the arm out of the equation.

If you look at Hara's Setup sheet from the TITC, you'll notice they drew lines and put measurements right by the suspension arm showing 10mm in front, and 8.5 in the rear. This gives you an idea of where and how I measure it.

http://www.hpiracing.co.jp/contents/..._tc_090222.pdf

-Korey
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Old 06-23-2009, 01:42 AM   #16656
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I attached, my last setup base, normally i test diferents additive, for very hot days i found a LRP Top Traction work very well, always when finish a heat, i check the temperature of the tyres, generally i feel the car loose to start of race, i race with caution for not overheat the tyres, and the grip is totally lineal for the entire heat (5 min.).
Here, the tracks are long and have low traction.
Actually, i run in stock, with 10.5 motors and Lipos, but sometimes i put 5 cells NiMh, the car is well balanced, i never run with stock motors, always i run in modified.

Thanks for all the inputs, i take note.

Luis C.
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Old 06-23-2009, 03:13 AM   #16657
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luic,

okay pretty good i got a few suggestions for you:
  • adjust the lower roll centre spacers from 2.0 to 1.5 under all the blocks. that should give you more traction overall.
    (if the track is really low grip you can try 1.25mm but i got some traction roll from that and a bit lazy reactions)
  • try lowering the droop by .5 so front 5 / rear 4.5
    that should give the chassis a bit more free movement and also
    make it less lose
  • try a front toe block change to 1.5 or 1.0
    that will make the car turn in less aggressive and easier around the corners
  • a lower rear shock oil should also make the rear settle down more and be less upsetting over bumps (depends also on how flat your track is). i run 450/350 (muchmore) with that piston but in your temperatures you are probably better to stay around 600/500 or 600/550
  • finally the thin wheel spacers you are running i am not sure but with a thin spacer and a 1mm shim aren't you back at the std spacers?
    anyway i did try the thin shims once over the std ones and the car got really nervous. i went back to the std ones and now only use the front spacer as a tuning aid for front weight transfer.

just some things to try for you at least things that worked for me.
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Old 06-23-2009, 04:08 AM   #16658
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Tom, thanks for your time, and patiencie.

I tested, that 1mm to 3mm, below pivot blocks, and i my best lap times are with 2mm, is possible are not only one change, i need changed this how you say, and another thing, how oil at the same time.....? i tested it.

I down the droop to 5 - 4, in the race, and how you say, i feel less lose.

When i change the front block, i lose a lot of steering, and i need it, for me the car arent nervous, i like steering .

I tested, more combinations of oil, normally i feel the same oil in both trains the car is more neutral, sometimes i use 40-35, 50-40, ...is possible the brand of oil are not very good, and it change a lot with heat ?.

I put the thin spacers, because i broke the std, and i think are the same, i buy new ones, and probe it.

Thanks again, for your very apreciated help, Luis C.
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Old 06-23-2009, 04:23 AM   #16659
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Originally Posted by luic View Post
When i change the front block, i lose a lot of steering, and i need it, for me the car arent nervous, i like steering .
perhaps you can get the steering back in a different way.
for instance change the springs to silver/silver
but the 1.5 block really makes the mid corner and exit feel better. on my testing program this was a big lap time improvement.


oh and i missed one thing what rear top deck are you running?
in my tests either a split carbon rear deck or the frp deck worked best.
don't use the alloy deck on low grip as it makes the rear way to stiff
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Old 06-23-2009, 07:57 AM   #16660
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I see a lot of talk about tire temps but no one said what they should be?

On bikes I look for 160 to 200 degrees and I have picked my car up and been surprised by how hot they were but didn't check them. Just by feel I would say 150 a couple of times.

I would say with an air temp of 90+ (30-35C) you could be looking at
130 (55C) degree track temp and would be as cool as they could get running.
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Old 06-23-2009, 02:09 PM   #16661
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When i test silver-silver springs, i feel more loose the rear end, even with 1.0 front pivot block.
Sometimes, for stock races, i use 2.5 rear and blue springs, and i found best lap times.
I use the FRP rear top deck, and i have a original split rear top deck, for me work best the FRP.
And i use the new TC arms, and spool v3 with POM outdrives.

For tyres temp, , my wife take temp of my tyres an motor, just at finish every heat, with 50C +/- (122F) in the track, the tyres are 47-48C (116-118F), normally, Sweep 36R.

Greetings, Luis C.
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Old 06-23-2009, 06:53 PM   #16662
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Korey Harbke View Post
I just put the car flat on the setup board and take the shocks and tires off. This way the suspension is totally free to move. Then when looking down the length of the car measure from the center of the hinge pin, down to the setup board. I've found it's easiest to just do this with a set of calipers, or a nice small precision ruler. You are looking at the hinge pin so the profile looks like a circle, and you are just measuring from the center of that circle, to the setup board. The arm has nothing to do with the way I measure droop on this car now. This is the way all of the worlds team measures as it takes inconsistencies from the arm out of the equation.

If you look at Hara's Setup sheet from the TITC, you'll notice they drew lines and put measurements right by the suspension arm showing 10mm in front, and 8.5 in the rear. This gives you an idea of where and how I measure it.

http://www.hpiracing.co.jp/contents/..._tc_090222.pdf

-Korey
Yep, I would have done it wrong. Thanks for clarifying that.
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Old 06-23-2009, 09:26 PM   #16663
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luic View Post
When i test silver-silver springs, i feel more loose the rear end, even with 1.0 front pivot block.
Sometimes, for stock races, i use 2.5 rear and blue springs, and i found best lap times.
I use the FRP rear top deck, and i have a original split rear top deck, for me work best the FRP.
And i use the new TC arms, and spool v3 with POM outdrives.

For tyres temp, , my wife take temp of my tyres an motor, just at finish every heat, with 50C +/- (122F) in the track, the tyres are 47-48C (116-118F), normally, Sweep 36R.

Greetings, Luis C.
use the old suspension arms. give it a try.
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Old 06-23-2009, 09:49 PM   #16664
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luic View Post
When i test silver-silver springs, i feel more loose the rear end, even with 1.0 front pivot block.
Sometimes, for stock races, i use 2.5 rear and blue springs, and i found best lap times.
I use the FRP rear top deck, and i have a original split rear top deck, for me work best the FRP.
And i use the new TC arms, and spool v3 with POM outdrives.

For tyres temp, , my wife take temp of my tyres an motor, just at finish every heat, with 50C +/- (122F) in the track, the tyres are 47-48C (116-118F), normally, Sweep 36R.

Greetings, Luis C.
if you want a planted car put on the high traction arm set!! these are the plastic arms. i have stiffened my car up alloy rear brace and 3mm top deck and i run these arms for grip. the car drives very well and always has grip
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Old 06-24-2009, 04:25 AM   #16665
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hey guys...has anyone even had the spur gear wobble??

I've in the process of rebuilding mine, and when I spin the spur gear it looks like the gear is warped and its kinda bugging me..
  • I've checked spacing with the one pulley - to make sure its not an optical illusion
  • I've spun the gear when its not screwed on, still have a wobble
  • spun it with the gear lightly tighten down, still have it
  • Moved the spur gear 'mount' around on that center 'flat spot' - just to make sure I had it fully seated
  • Used an 'official' HB supr, PRS spurs, kimborough...the only one I got with just about no wobble was some crappy brand spurs - that I didn't like using...

any ideas???? I'm stumped - the car is drivable, it just bugging me that I can't get it to spin true
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