Spec/Handout Speedo thoughts
04-16-2012, 06:24 PM
#91
You know guys at the end of the day when all discussion is over then if this is how the hobby must evolve, then so be it. I seem to remember a time when we (most of us anyway) said much of the same things about V.T.A. racing (myself included) , Lipo batteries, & brushless motors.
If that's the way it goes so be it, those of us who work all week just to play with toy cars will still be playing and racing.
I appluad Eric for all the time and energy he spends trying to keep this hobby alive and growing. The idea has merit and might work, we won't know 'till we do it.
If that's the way it goes so be it, those of us who work all week just to play with toy cars will still be playing and racing.
I appluad Eric for all the time and energy he spends trying to keep this hobby alive and growing. The idea has merit and might work, we won't know 'till we do it.
EA
04-16-2012, 06:27 PM
#92
I dont mean for that to offend anyone but after watching those guys over there they have stuff down to a routine everytime they are on the track, working on their cars, prepping their cars, etc. There are very few Americans that way.....the ones that are are the ones that win everything here. Over there everyone is that way!
EA
EA
Rinse and Repeat.
04-16-2012, 06:34 PM
#94
Wow.......wow..... Stay on topic please !
04-16-2012, 07:01 PM
#96
Sealed motors are the best idea yet, imo. It would make roll-out your only real variable. Monster Lock perhaps?
04-16-2012, 07:22 PM
#97
I know... That was my point about laziness. Nobody wanted to bother learning how to tune a speedo. We went blinky, and it really didn't solve anything because you still have can timing, software updates, optional rotors, ceramic bearings.......... We just went from research we could do for free, to buying crap to tune with. Ya still have to test to see what works best.
Sealed motors are the best idea yet, imo. It would make roll-out your only real variable. Monster Lock perhaps?
Sealed motors are the best idea yet, imo. It would make roll-out your only real variable. Monster Lock perhaps?
Seriously, turnouts are way better in my neck of the woods with blinky classes. Locked out motors can't hurt.
04-16-2012, 07:28 PM
#98
Let me add a couple more thoughts ..
ROAR - I don't know of another organization that is even trying to test, approve and deal with all the manufacturers to try and make things fair. They put out a list of approved esc's, motors and batteries and it is up to the race organizer to follow those rules if they choose. Does that always happen? No .. so maybe a change is necessary.
IIC 2011 - Stock - was suppose to abide by the ROAR approved ESC's and software versions list. Did that happen? No. Orca speedo's in the amatuer class (non-appoved speedo but they were a sponsor of the race), Tekin 22x in who knows what classes. Just testing for a blinking light. When you have to change your gearing by 3-5 teeth when you change 'Blinky' speedo's, something is wrong. If you attended IIC, then you saw it for yourself.
In the Amatuer class, no one was complaining about the motor or running around the pits trying to find out what the motor/rotor of the day was. Why? Because it was a handout and everyone was in the same boat. This eliminated any drama due to motors.
The same can happen with ESC's.
If you attend a national event you pretty much spend about $600-$1000 in travel, hotel, food and entry fees. I for one would pay another $60 to not have to hear another word about illegal speedo's and their software while at these events. I think the setup and driving conversations would be much more interesting and is what people should focus on anyway.
ROAR - I don't know of another organization that is even trying to test, approve and deal with all the manufacturers to try and make things fair. They put out a list of approved esc's, motors and batteries and it is up to the race organizer to follow those rules if they choose. Does that always happen? No .. so maybe a change is necessary.
IIC 2011 - Stock - was suppose to abide by the ROAR approved ESC's and software versions list. Did that happen? No. Orca speedo's in the amatuer class (non-appoved speedo but they were a sponsor of the race), Tekin 22x in who knows what classes. Just testing for a blinking light. When you have to change your gearing by 3-5 teeth when you change 'Blinky' speedo's, something is wrong. If you attended IIC, then you saw it for yourself.
In the Amatuer class, no one was complaining about the motor or running around the pits trying to find out what the motor/rotor of the day was. Why? Because it was a handout and everyone was in the same boat. This eliminated any drama due to motors.
The same can happen with ESC's.
If you attend a national event you pretty much spend about $600-$1000 in travel, hotel, food and entry fees. I for one would pay another $60 to not have to hear another word about illegal speedo's and their software while at these events. I think the setup and driving conversations would be much more interesting and is what people should focus on anyway.
04-16-2012, 07:31 PM
#99
What I see is everyone wants a class they can win or be in the A-main and they do not understand the concept of 1st place in a B main.... They see it as 11th place..... not 1st place in the Bmain. That is the root cause here.... So people want to create classes so they are in the A-main of something... It could be 51.5.... but they made the A-main.....
So allow me to toss out something here (for the record I really have not opinion either way). If a big race has say 150 entries, that 15 heats at 10 per heat (I know it is not normal to work this way), so what is the big deal if you have 8 classes (more then 10 in stock and VTA, so that is normal around here)??? you still yield the some number of entries.... So what is the big deal with more classes? Tech?
04-16-2012, 07:56 PM
#101
If superstock gets replaced by VTA or F1 I'll be keeping my dollars and staying home. Just like ROAR nats, with its awesome attendance.
Anyway, back on topic. The handout ESC thing seems okay for an amateur and maybe stock class, but leave superstock alone.
Anyway, back on topic. The handout ESC thing seems okay for an amateur and maybe stock class, but leave superstock alone.
04-16-2012, 08:30 PM
#102
It wasnt too long ago that we had big races where WE had to pay for a handout motor.
Beyond the equalities that a spec package could provide competition, it might also reduce tech congestion for motor and ESC tech pre/post heats.
There should be some way to remove the inventory risk for race promoters and provide the sponsor motor/esc company(ies) to monitor tech and administration of their representative products. I remember the first year that ROAR Nats provided an exhibition class for brushless - Novak stepped up and provided tech/support/inventory control/deposit for the motor/esc setup.
This obviously doesnt scale well at the club level but for the national level events (IIC, S'birds, Champs, ROAR, Reedy) the draw of having a nominal spend of a spec package is much more attractive than '6-pack' of motors/rotors that many of us pack up for a major event.
We have accepted spec tires for the major events - it seems logical and topical to consider spec motor/esc package.
Those major events will of course support open/modified classes unaffected by the spec program.
I am not sure if numbers of entries will increase dramatically but for attendees competing it might be a shot at cost reducing participation, increasing efficiency of the race program/tech and remove any doubts of massive competitive advantage. Surely we find something else to focus on after that but one step at a time.
Thanks for bringing this up EA.
Beyond the equalities that a spec package could provide competition, it might also reduce tech congestion for motor and ESC tech pre/post heats.
There should be some way to remove the inventory risk for race promoters and provide the sponsor motor/esc company(ies) to monitor tech and administration of their representative products. I remember the first year that ROAR Nats provided an exhibition class for brushless - Novak stepped up and provided tech/support/inventory control/deposit for the motor/esc setup.
This obviously doesnt scale well at the club level but for the national level events (IIC, S'birds, Champs, ROAR, Reedy) the draw of having a nominal spend of a spec package is much more attractive than '6-pack' of motors/rotors that many of us pack up for a major event.
We have accepted spec tires for the major events - it seems logical and topical to consider spec motor/esc package.
Those major events will of course support open/modified classes unaffected by the spec program.
I am not sure if numbers of entries will increase dramatically but for attendees competing it might be a shot at cost reducing participation, increasing efficiency of the race program/tech and remove any doubts of massive competitive advantage. Surely we find something else to focus on after that but one step at a time.
Thanks for bringing this up EA.
04-16-2012, 08:37 PM
#103
Tech Addict
i remember about 2 or 3 years ago, when Shawn Palmer was still at Speed passion, he had me contact the owner of our local track about providing motors/controllers for the stock event at the ROAR Nationals. The cost of the motor/speed controller was approx $50 to $75.oo ....for BOTH of them. The company would have absorbed some of the cost to get the idea started for a spec 17.5 class here in the U.S.
ROAR shot the idea down, and said no. The reason? One of the sponsors of the race was a competing speed controller company.
Personally, i love that idea. a spec 13.5 class is faster or about the same as a tricked out expensive 17.5 class motor, and would cost a lot less money.
SIGN ME UP!
ROAR shot the idea down, and said no. The reason? One of the sponsors of the race was a competing speed controller company.
Personally, i love that idea. a spec 13.5 class is faster or about the same as a tricked out expensive 17.5 class motor, and would cost a lot less money.
SIGN ME UP!
04-16-2012, 09:09 PM
#104
It reminded me about why Europe/Asia can have SKYLINE GT-R , Subaru 22B, Mitshibitshi EVO like 10+ years before US imported them recently....does American cannot afford them? Or we cannot handle that kinda power or we don't have the road for these import?
There is always the SOMEONE preventing this happening...and that has to do with MONEY and PROFIT.....
There is always the SOMEONE preventing this happening...and that has to do with MONEY and PROFIT.....
04-16-2012, 09:18 PM
#105
