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Old 07-13-2012, 05:55 PM   #1321
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Have a question. Has there been any discussion about there being a provision in the VTA rules allowing old brushed motors and speedos?

I am sitting on ( OMFG, how many!! ) old Cyclones and Atoms and brushed stock motors than I care to admit.
- Previous rules allowed 4-cell round cells with a stock motor to race alongside 2c lipos with 21.5 motors. It was possible to compete with the stock motors, but you had to be almost perfect to be competitive with the brushless setups.

- At the time some racers used 6-cell NIHM or lipo with a stock motor, and they were faster than the 21.5 brushless/lipo cars. Therefore I would say a lipo/stock motor combo would be much faster than a lipo/25.5 combo.

- Locally when turn-outs have been light, we have run a mixed class. I was running a fully legal VTA vs. a lipo/silvercan car with Solaris slicks (local class rules). The silvercan car was a bit faster in the straights compared to the VTA car, but it was close enough to make for fun racing.

Conclusions:
There is no need to change national rules, but work with your local club to see if they would allow you to run a brushed speedo/silver can motor with a lipo battery in VTA. If you a newer racer, it might give you a slight advantage on the straights, but no real advantage in the corners (silver can motors have a bit more RPM than torque). This might give you a cheap way to experience what VTA racing is and help you decide to go all in on fully legal VTA electronics.

Ultimately it is better to run the USVTA rules. However, most tracks I've raced at will work with individuals to get up to speed so new racers can have fun without blowing their individual budget.

Oh, and don't be afraid to ask if someone has equipment that they will let you borrow for the evening. You will be surprised how helpful most people racing VTA can be.
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Old 07-13-2012, 07:09 PM   #1322
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Hey guys...got another question(discussion) for you... I have my xray T1FK05 sitting right at 1550grams..was going to try and use hudy balance pins and try to balance it(side to side) but after getting it to weight,theres really no room on the chasis for weights to get it to balance out.
My question is..whats more important,getting it to legal vta weight or having the "balance" ?
I've run cars anywhere between 1550 and 1580. They are so heavy already that the extra ounce doesn't have that big an impact. Of course, at the highest level of competition you'd want to have it right at weight or a few grams over. For most racing though adding a little weight to get the car balanced would help you with cornering and tire wear and the loss of acceleration would hardly be noticeable.
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Old 07-13-2012, 08:18 PM   #1323
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Just for fun I went from 1551 to 1690 just to see the differences. I was the same lap times but had way more traction into the corner not as much out. but if someone with a 1550 tried the pit maneuver it would end badly for them :lol
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Old 07-13-2012, 08:46 PM   #1324
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Ultimately it is better to run the USVTA rules. However, most tracks I've raced at will work with individuals to get up to speed so new racers can have fun without blowing their individual budget
A grace period. A time when a new racer learns what a legal car looks like, Why they should build one, and yet is allowed to participate so that they will get a taste of the VTA racing experience. I think Robk is ok with that. Just dont expect it in the national rule set.
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Old 07-14-2012, 08:30 PM   #1325
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A couple more Avatar for the VTAMOB.
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Old 07-15-2012, 02:16 AM   #1326
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"That's one small step for man, one giant leap for VTA" - the VTA Voyagers.

Hey Guys, I just arrived back home from a long, long day of racing VTA in Houston, TX for Round #1 of the Texas EOS. I am proud to say that me and my 2 roommates, Joey Novak and Randy Novak, won 3rd, 2nd, and 1st place VTA medals in that order (me 3rd, Joey 2nd and Randy 1st). There were over 60 entries all together and 10 of those were VTA. Dozens of racers from Austin and Houston saw VTA for the 1st time and they had a very positive impression of the class.

Round #2 of the Texas EOS will take place in Austin, TX on August 12. I am hoping that some of the guys who saw VTA in Houston will consider putting together a VTA for the race in Austin.
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Old 07-15-2012, 03:37 AM   #1327
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A couple more Avatar for the VTAMOB.
That's sick snoop you have a talent for this avatar thing lol
I'm gonna have to get with you I'm working on some shirts

And forming some new MAFIA families in different states lol

we have to be Abel to trace your rc roots all the way back
To the wiper speed control days and what your first rc car was
And then the blood oath and your IN lmao

Talk to you guys later on my way to the track
Sunday Sunday Sunday let's go racing
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Old 07-15-2012, 03:09 PM   #1328
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Hey guys. I've got a VTA question/problem that I'm looking for some help with. My local track started a VTA class about a year ago and it has taken off great. The problem that we are running into is that the cars are not equal in speed cause some motors are faster than others. We run on a small track and go by the official VTA rules with a FDR of 6.9 and most of the cars are very close in speed, but a select few can pass a car in the strait almost like they are standing still. At first we thought that it was just that the car had a better set up, or was cleaner, but we have set ours up the best we can and clean them after every race day, and that made it a bit better but still those select few can still pull away from the slower ones. It's starting to discourage people from racing because they want to be competitive, and spend a ton of time teching their cars but have no chance of winning.

Does anyone have any ideas or advice to help me with our problem? Feel free to PM me too if you don't want to post it on here. Thanks
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Old 07-15-2012, 03:34 PM   #1329
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Hey guys. I've got a VTA question/problem that I'm looking for some help with. My local track started a VTA class about a year ago and it has taken off great. The problem that we are running into is that the cars are not equal in speed cause some motors are faster than others. We run on a small track and go by the official VTA rules with a FDR of 6.9 and most of the cars are very close in speed, but a select few can pass a car in the strait almost like they are standing still. At first we thought that it was just that the car had a better set up, or was cleaner, but we have set ours up the best we can and clean them after every race day, and that made it a bit better but still those select few can still pull away from the slower ones. It's starting to discourage people from racing because they want to be competitive, and spend a ton of time teching their cars but have no chance of winning.

Does anyone have any ideas or advice to help me with our problem? Feel free to PM me too if you don't want to post it on here. Thanks
Hey Fluffy, are the select few guys who can pull away from the rest on the straight very experienced R/C drivers? Likewise are the guys who are getting passed up inexperienced R/C drivers? More than likely that is the case. One year ago, when I was a "newbie" driver, I was getting passed all day long by 3 or 4 other VTA cars that were identical in every way to my VTA. Same chassis, same motor, same ESC, same FDR (4.0 for our track), etc. The key to going around the track faster and faster is to get hundreds of hours of practice with driving your VTA. You will steadily see improvements in your line through the track. It is most likely that the guys who are passing the rest of the pack can cut the overall length of the track by 7 to 9 feet because they can hug the turns and also enter/exit those turns at the optimal angle so that their car does not have to decelerate hardly at all.
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Old 07-15-2012, 03:37 PM   #1330
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Originally Posted by Fluffy622 View Post
Hey guys. I've got a VTA question/problem that I'm looking for some help with. My local track started a VTA class about a year ago and it has taken off great. The problem that we are running into is that the cars are not equal in speed cause some motors are faster than others. We run on a small track and go by the official VTA rules with a FDR of 6.9 and most of the cars are very close in speed, but a select few can pass a car in the strait almost like they are standing still. At first we thought that it was just that the car had a better set up, or was cleaner, but we have set ours up the best we can and clean them after every race day, and that made it a bit better but still those select few can still pull away from the slower ones. It's starting to discourage people from racing because they want to be competitive, and spend a ton of time teching their cars but have no chance of winning.

Does anyone have any ideas or advice to help me with our problem? Feel free to PM me too if you don't want to post it on here. Thanks
What turn motor are you guys running. USVTA rules are 25.5 Novak. Some clubs allow any 25.5. Are you guys running a different turn? If everyone is running a 6.9 then they should be pretty even aside from setup and driving skills.
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Old 07-15-2012, 03:43 PM   #1331
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What's and FDR of 6.9 or 4.0?
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Old 07-15-2012, 03:43 PM   #1332
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"That's one small step for man, one giant leap for VTA" - the VTA Voyagers.

My sinister plan to convert other R/C racers into VTA racers is working! One of the guys I met at Round 1 of the Texas EOS in Houston was so impressed with the VTA Voyagers that he wants to build a VTA of his own to race at Round 2 in Austin. Sean was racing an F1 in Houston this last Saturday. Take a look at his post...
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Ok guys, Since you showed us so much support in Houston, I want to show the same support and get a VTA of my own to race at the next Race. I just need some help. I see a main hobbies has 2 different combos. one is the ballistic motor ($160) Novak EDGE 2S Brushless ESC/Ballistic VTA Brushless Motor System (25.5T) and the cheaper one Novak "Club Spec" Brushless ESC/Club USVTA Brushless Motor Combo (25.5T)($120). Any thoughts? Do you have the tires at Mikes in Dallas? Any Used kits up there? Thanks Sean
Hey Sean, that's great news! I am glad to see that the VTA Voyagers were able to make an impression on the racers in Houston. As far as the motor combos go, nobody here has tried the "Club Spec" combo as of yet. Novak just released the "Club" ESC last April and I have yet to see one being used at our track. The Edge 2S with Ballistic 25.5 has been the most popular combo among the VTA racers here at Mike's. Even the best Spec Sedan and F1 drivers (Ivan Doug Bryson and Robert Bremer) use the Novak Edge 2S ESC in their cars. It has been very thoroughly tested and proven to be a great ESC. As far as used kits go, there are several drivers that have used chassis and even some electronics for sale. I know of one guy who is selling a used Team Associated TC5R chassis. If you're interested I can get you in touch with him.
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Old 07-15-2012, 03:48 PM   #1333
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What's and FDR of 6.9 or 4.0?
Hey Catfish, go to this web page (Gearchart.com) to learn all you can about FDR. The lower the number of your FDR the higher your top speed will be, likewise the higher the number for FDR the more torque and acceleration you will have for getting through all the super tight turns in the infield of a track.
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Old 07-15-2012, 03:50 PM   #1334
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What's and FDR of 6.9 or 4.0?
That's your final drive ratio. The higher the FDR the faster the car will accelerate, and the lower the FDR the higher top end. You can change FDR by changing spur and pinion gears to get an FDR to match your track.
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Old 07-15-2012, 04:28 PM   #1335
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I'll bite...

Why is the FDR 6.9? Is the track that tiny and technical? Can you provide pics?

I've run on a 50x80 (give or take) outdoor track, fairly technical with lots of 180* degree turns and the lowest i ever went was 4.0 on my FDR.

Technically, the official USVTA rules don't specify a FDR. So while some cars/motors/ESCs will be equal in speeds at the same FDR, you always have that oddball setup that could run the same speeds with a slightly different FDR.

Another point, motor timing: are the faster cars running the same amount of motor timing as everyone else? The Ballistic motors are adjustable, the old SS motors are not. Once again, all things being equal, slight adjustments to motor timing might be the reason other people are faster.

Finally, as wwddww34 wrote, if some guys aren't carrying proper corner speed (pushing or sliding) they will be slower than the guys on the straights. Guys who have their cars dialed will be on the throttle earlier and seem faster down the straights. To prove or disprove this, have everyone drag race down a straight. If everyone is pretty much equal, then i'd bet the faster guys are accelerating harder out of the turns than the slower guys.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Fluffy622 View Post
Hey guys. I've got a VTA question/problem that I'm looking for some help with. My local track started a VTA class about a year ago and it has taken off great. The problem that we are running into is that the cars are not equal in speed cause some motors are faster than others. We run on a small track and go by the official VTA rules with a FDR of 6.9 and most of the cars are very close in speed, but a select few can pass a car in the strait almost like they are standing still. At first we thought that it was just that the car had a better set up, or was cleaner, but we have set ours up the best we can and clean them after every race day, and that made it a bit better but still those select few can still pull away from the slower ones. It's starting to discourage people from racing because they want to be competitive, and spend a ton of time teching their cars but have no chance of winning.

Does anyone have any ideas or advice to help me with our problem? Feel free to PM me too if you don't want to post it on here. Thanks
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