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Old 06-20-2012, 09:09 PM   #1051
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I know I have asked this before with no response, if a arts or rtr we're to be offered, which of these 3 do think would be more attractive to someone new.

First, RTR Sprint2 USVTA ready minus batteries with stock 2.4 radio,cv joints,cf shock towers and aluminum shocks at 475

Second, T3R box stock with Futaba 3pl and also rtr at 640

Thirdly, TC4 with Futaba 3pl, also USVTA RTR at 475

They all would be equipped with Novak Club Spec 25.5 systems and geared at 4.0.

Just a thought that Heather and I had.

I own a new Sprint2.

For a cut & run starter car you mention - price wise - the Sprint 2 is very attractive.

Last edited by Marv; 06-24-2012 at 07:58 AM.
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Old 06-20-2012, 09:43 PM   #1052
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I'm partial to the TC4. It seems to have all the tuning options anyone will ever need and plenty of hop-ups still around. I've been thinking of upgrading my TC3s to the new club racer since it's release. The most important adjustment I'm missing on the TC3 that the I don't think the HPI has is the ability to raise and lower the suspension blocks (roll center) with the use of shims. Right now I do it with washers on the TC3 but it is a less than perfect system. I don't know if you can do it with the X-ray, but it's just too much more expensive if you're thinking of offering an off-the-shelf ready to run VTA.
Your correct on the roll center adjustments for the Sprint 2, in it's box stock form. If we were to offer it with the optional CF shock towers, it offers 3 roll center positions at the upper camber link. It would still be fixed at the arm however.

The T3R has all of the adjustments that the original T3 had for roll centers, at the arm as well as at the camber link.

The only reason I have asked again, is the fact this chassis discussion comes up every so often, as it will, and the fact we have just completed some customer mentoring/builds. Even though they were completely advised prior to starting, they were not aware as to how much it would truly cost for a ground up build with batteries,radio,charger.

We cut them some big breaks were we could and spent a lot of hours with them building,tweaking etc. all the while letting them use our equipment and tools.

We have done a few RTR USVTA TC4's. They sold after awhile in the shop and were eventually re-sold. The original owner's convinced themselves to upgrade to the "luxury" sedan models.
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Old 06-20-2012, 10:17 PM   #1053
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This particular chassis discussion came up primarily as a cautionary tale. Nobody wants to see VTA follow a similar path as TC. Just because each driver has the right to buy whatever chassis they wish does not mean that the class needs to be adversely affected. If we stay aware of what VTA was designed to be, then there shouldn't be any reason to worry but when such purchases become the "norm" then the class will suffer. It was simply an observation that way to many posts these days mention high end chassis and motor timing. In the "spirit of vta", we should all be promoting VTA as the less expensive, more reasonable level of performance class it's supposed to be. Nobody is chassis bashing or trying to tell anyone they can't buy what they want. Simply saying we need to be careful when we tell other people WHY we bought it. And honestly, how many times do we have to hear the "hey, this hobby is expensive...live with it !!" mentality. The correct comment is that every hobby has costs involved but there's a right way to spend and a wrong way. Buying because you perceive that more cost will equate to more performance is definitely the wrong way.
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Old 06-20-2012, 10:24 PM   #1054
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This particular chassis discussion came up primarily as a cautionary tale. Nobody wants to see VTA follow a similar path as TC. Just because each driver has the right to buy whatever chassis they wish does not mean that the class needs to be adversely affected. If we stay aware of what VTA was designed to be, then there shouldn't be any reason to worry but when such purchases become the "norm" then the class will suffer. It was simply an observation that way to many posts these days mention high end chassis and motor timing. In the "spirit of vta", we should all be promoting VTA as the less expensive, more reasonable level of performance class it's supposed to be. Nobody is chassis bashing or trying to tell anyone they can't buy what they want. Simply saying we need to be careful when we tell other people WHY we bought it. And honestly, how many times do we have to hear the "hey, this hobby is expensive...live with it !!" mentality. The correct comment is that every hobby has costs involved but there's a right way to spend and a wrong way. Buying because you perceive that more cost will equate to more performance is definitely the wrong way.
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Old 06-20-2012, 11:04 PM   #1055
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Default More bodies???

We need someone to make all the bodies seen in U.S. Vintage Trans-Am racing. These are some of them:





















I know some of these may not be Trans-Am, and that some are being made but not on the list, but they should be considered. I'd like to see some body manufacturer make the Cougar, 69 Firebird and Grand Torino. Can anybody think of other bodies could be made for this class?
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Old 06-21-2012, 06:38 AM   #1056
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This particular chassis discussion came up primarily as a cautionary tale. Nobody wants to see VTA follow a similar path as TC. Just because each driver has the right to buy whatever chassis they wish does not mean that the class needs to be adversely affected. If we stay aware of what VTA was designed to be, then there shouldn't be any reason to worry but when such purchases become the "norm" then the class will suffer. It was simply an observation that way to many posts these days mention high end chassis and motor timing. In the "spirit of vta", we should all be promoting VTA as the less expensive, more reasonable level of performance class it's supposed to be. Nobody is chassis bashing or trying to tell anyone they can't buy what they want. Simply saying we need to be careful when we tell other people WHY we bought it. And honestly, how many times do we have to hear the "hey, this hobby is expensive...live with it !!" mentality. The correct comment is that every hobby has costs involved but there's a right way to spend and a wrong way. Buying because you perceive that more cost will equate to more performance is definitely the wrong way.
If people spent as much time reaching out to the newer drivers helping them learn their car as they do worrying about how much everyone else spent on their car...

People keep throwing around the term "Spirit of VTA". It is almost like a free pass to justify whatever your individual viewpoint is. You want to go fast? That is not in the "spirit of VTA". You want to buy a new Xray? Also not in the "spirit". I raced 1:1 in PCA, but drove with a lot of RMVR (Rocky Mountain Vintage Racing, my car was too "new" as a 1976 model, to run vintage) drivers. The "spirit" of racing with them involved making sure everyone there had a safe and fun time. It was not sleeping the night before the race because you and 5 guys in your class were helping the 6th rebuild his motor. It was those same 5 guys all starting in the back with the guy that missed qualifying so that no one had an unfair advantage. It was not just about lending someone a tool, but offering that extra hand to use it. The "Spirit" of grassroots vintage racing is about making sure everyone is out there racing first, and how to beat them second. I will take a close even matched race that I lose, any day over one in which I beat the entire field by several laps.

It is not about the money. If your new drivers are coming here for car advice instead of your pit area, maybe there is a bigger issue with your track's "Spirit of VTA".

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Old 06-21-2012, 07:38 AM   #1057
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orca, your issues with this thread and those that post on it are well documented. I'm sorry you've felt left in the dark regarding setup help or anything else. This subject has nothing to do with that. It's a concern regarding the long term state of VTA. And yes, relating the "spirit" of the class is and should always be a concern for all of us. Maybe if people had voiced those concerns loudly enough in the past TC wouldn't have taken such a hit. VTA is a SPEC program. Drivers will always find ways to stretch the envelope and in so doing it changes the perceived performance requirements. That's a slippery slope. If the perception becomes that VTA can't be fun AND competitive without owning top of the line gear then you end up alienating the future of the class. That future is not you nor is it any existing driver...it's the larger number of people that are POTENTIAL drivers and enthusiasts. This is a much smaller situation than what guys like you make it out to be. It's simply a call to try and remember the "spirit" in which this class was developed and do our best to pass that on so that any misconceptions are handled and those that don't know are educated to the idea that 1 persons CHOICE of equipment DOES NOT signal the normal needs of the class.
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Old 06-21-2012, 08:13 AM   #1058
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Originally Posted by TitaniumXRC View Post
... I know some of these may not be Trans-Am, and that some are being made but not on the list, but they should be considered. I'd like to see some body manufacturer make the Cougar, 69 Firebird and Grand Torino. Can anybody think of other bodies could be made for this class?
Yeah, how about the '72 Trans Am? The one you see in the pic below is my Shelf Queen. It's a 1972 Nikko Pontiac Firebird Trans Am.

Last edited by wwddww34; 06-21-2012 at 09:31 AM.
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Old 06-21-2012, 08:31 AM   #1059
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i got a club racer tc4 and it may need a hopup or two, but I'm bringing it out bone stock and having some fun with it racing vta. What's the worst that can happen, I could win and smile that I didnt break the bank doing it.

I think more of us should practice more and complain less.
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Old 06-21-2012, 08:31 AM   #1060
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orca, your issues with this thread and those that post on it are well documented. I'm sorry you've felt left in the dark regarding setup help or anything else. This subject has nothing to do with that. It's a concern regarding the long term state of VTA. And yes, relating the "spirit" of the class is and should always be a concern for all of us. Maybe if people had voiced those concerns loudly enough in the past TC wouldn't have taken such a hit. VTA is a SPEC program. Drivers will always find ways to stretch the envelope and in so doing it changes the perceived performance requirements. That's a slippery slope. If the perception becomes that VTA can't be fun AND competitive without owning top of the line gear then you end up alienating the future of the class. That future is not you nor is it any existing driver...it's the larger number of people that are POTENTIAL drivers and enthusiasts. This is a much smaller situation than what guys like you make it out to be. It's simply a call to try and remember the "spirit" in which this class was developed and do our best to pass that on so that any misconceptions are handled and those that don't know are educated to the idea that 1 persons CHOICE of equipment DOES NOT signal the normal needs of the class.
If the "spirit" of vta is whats needed, I for one am for it. Go back to the original usvta rules concwerning the chasis. Have them be at least 1 generation old. The only people that would be happy with 1 spec chasis, would be the manufacturer of said spec chasis.
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Old 06-21-2012, 09:27 AM   #1061
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orca, your issues with this thread and those that post on it are well documented. I'm sorry you've felt left in the dark regarding setup help or anything else. This subject has nothing to do with that. It's a concern regarding the long term state of VTA. And yes, relating the "spirit" of the class is and should always be a concern for all of us. Maybe if people had voiced those concerns loudly enough in the past TC wouldn't have taken such a hit. VTA is a SPEC program. Drivers will always find ways to stretch the envelope and in so doing it changes the perceived performance requirements. That's a slippery slope. If the perception becomes that VTA can't be fun AND competitive without owning top of the line gear then you end up alienating the future of the class. That future is not you nor is it any existing driver...it's the larger number of people that are POTENTIAL drivers and enthusiasts. This is a much smaller situation than what guys like you make it out to be. It's simply a call to try and remember the "spirit" in which this class was developed and do our best to pass that on so that any misconceptions are handled and those that don't know are educated to the idea that 1 persons CHOICE of equipment DOES NOT signal the normal needs of the class.
My issue with this extreme viewpoint is a new person coming in with the expectation that they can run straight to the A-Main at a regional/national race with a TC3. Those are the exceptions, not the rule. I am not saying you need a $600 touring car by any means. I personally would also not point someone to a TC3. TC4 I might now with the rerelease of it, but at our track, the Sakura is a beast, and at $120 for the kit, is very budget friendly, and can be upgraded to be just as aluminum and carbon fiber as the best of them. It also has the local parts and racer support, which far outweigh most everything else IMHO. Go to Nashville (and at least at the time of the Thunder Jam), and no one has ever heard of the Sakura. I flipped mine near the drivers stand and people were asking what it was (some thought it was a Top Photon or Corally). A Sakura would be a terrible idea there, as there would be little to no parts support or help. A TC3/4 on the other hand would have all kinds of help there.

It just seems that there is a lot of pigeon holing going on, that if you can't be TQ with a TC3, you suck and are a noob trying to buy your way to winning. There are many many options, and the deciding factor should be based on local support, not based on having too expensive or cheap of a car.
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Old 06-21-2012, 12:37 PM   #1062
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Being a newcomer, I got into it with the Sprint 2 Sport and discovered it's weakness rather quickly. It is curable fortunately by replacing the ball cups and rebuilding with threadlock plus a few tweaks. At least it is a decent entry level chassis that can run well with some care and feeding.

I then got a TC4 and it has been much better. I think it is ideal for USVTA and USGT. It's not too expensive and parts are plentiful. I don't feel I need an Xray to race in these classes. We have guys running Hot bodies, TC6s and Tamiya stuff in VTA and the faster classes too, but they don't seem to be that much faster because of the chassis. The fast guys are just that. The setup and driving skill make more of a difference. These are the areas I am focusing on to get better and faster.
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Old 06-21-2012, 01:21 PM   #1063
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Being a newcomer, I got into it with the Sprint 2 Sport and discovered it's weakness rather quickly. It is curable fortunately by replacing the ball cups and rebuilding with threadlock plus a few tweaks. At least it is a decent entry level chassis that can run well with some care and feeding.

I then got a TC4 and it has been much better. I think it is ideal for USVTA and USGT. It's not too expensive and parts are plentiful. I don't feel I need an Xray to race in these classes. We have guys running Hot bodies, TC6s and Tamiya stuff in VTA and the faster classes too, but they don't seem to be that much faster because of the chassis. The fast guys are just that. The setup and driving skill make more of a difference. These are the areas I am focusing on to get better and faster.
And that is how most of us start. I started with a TC3 (several in fact), eventually upgraded to a Sakura, and most recently the Serpent. I have also run USGT and TC on the chassis' and that is something important to me. Also, this is where many of the used chassis' come from that help get others started. My TC3's went to several local racers, many of which have been upgraded again as well, and my Sakura just went to someone who had started a couple months back with a TC4 RTR.

It should not matter what chassis we have or how much it costs. As long as it is within the rules, the weight requirement helps to balance out the advantages of the newer cars, and everyone can just have fun.

My OCD is why I not only have a numbered S411 LE, but that I was able to find and purchase consecutive number chassis's. Definitely wasted money for VTA, but not wasted for my own personal fun factor.

Glad you are enjoying VTA and RC in general!
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Old 06-21-2012, 01:48 PM   #1064
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Being a newcomer, I got into it with the Sprint 2 Sport and discovered it's weakness rather quickly. It is curable fortunately by replacing the ball cups and rebuilding with threadlock plus a few tweaks. At least it is a decent entry level chassis that can run well with some care and feeding.

I then got a TC4 and it has been much better. I think it is ideal for USVTA and USGT. It's not too expensive and parts are plentiful. I don't feel I need an Xray to race in these classes. We have guys running Hot bodies, TC6s and Tamiya stuff in VTA and the faster classes too, but they don't seem to be that much faster because of the chassis. The fast guys are just that. The setup and driving skill make more of a difference. These are the areas I am focusing on to get better and faster.
Dude, if there was a somebody who got you into RC and helped you learn that mentality... make sure you thank them ! You're a poster boy for the proper way to approach this class. Have fun, take time to REALLY learn about setups and DRIVING. Down the road when a newbie asks you the best way to get started and progress...you'll be able to answer in the best way possible. Good Job !!
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Old 06-21-2012, 02:19 PM   #1065
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Im not allowed to comment....sorry...Im under 5th...

and on that other thread either...gagg
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