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Old 06-20-2012, 08:32 AM   #1021
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Originally Posted by wwddww34 View Post
Hey Darkside, was that "humunga-sized" text really necessary?
psst, i think he was tryin' to make a point



nothing drives a point home other then large, bold text
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Old 06-20-2012, 08:34 AM   #1022
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Originally Posted by wwddww34 View Post
Hey Darkside, was that "humunga-sized" text really necessary?
Hey you learned it from me...lol...
but nope it wasnt...I was on my phone posting...




on another note...The Speed Passion Citrix isnt slower than the Novaks. I think ppl see that its only $59 and think cause its cheaper its not as good..

well thats not true, but dont take my word for it...ask Dave Johnson 2012 Snowbirds USVTA National Champion, and 2011 USVTA Southern National Champion, or Jason Graham ROAR Region 5 Champion, or the 2012 USVTA Scale National Champion, all ran SP Citrix...

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Old 06-20-2012, 08:45 AM   #1023
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Has any of you ever seen 100 US VTA cars in one race event?....think really hard?
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Old 06-20-2012, 08:48 AM   #1024
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Hey Darkside... I just sent you a PM.


On the "you need a high end chassis to be competitive" thing... I routinely place in the top 3 at the various Chicago area tracks I race at using a TC3. I will admit though that I spend way too much time on these toys.
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Old 06-20-2012, 08:50 AM   #1025
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Has any of you ever seen 100 US VTA cars in one race event?....think really hard?
would be nice i think the most I've seen was at Mimi's in Maryland early on...and then last year at the Nationals - what was there 44-48 cars?
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Old 06-20-2012, 09:32 AM   #1026
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A guy from Australia posted somewhere on here that his club did this very same thing. They speced the motor, esc, tires, chassis, body... almost everything on the car.

It worked for his club because the members bought into it.

Could it happen in here the States? Probably, but you would need a really good group of people to pull it off.

Should it happen in VTA? Probably not. I've raced my Sakura Zero and TC3 against a lot of TC6.1s finishing smack dab in the middle of those brand new cars. As with any class, it's up to the driver and his or her skill level, amount of practice time, setup knowledge, etc, etc, etc.

What would be nice is if people realized that to be good it takes practice, practice and practice. Buying a brand new [fill in the blank] won't make you as fast as the guy who, by natural ability or a great deal of practice, owns that same [fill in the blank]. The [filll in the blank] won't drive the car for you. Track time is invaluable and can't be ordered from Tower Hobbies.


The only thing that could possibly work would be specifying a single "low cost" chassis in the rules so that all VTA racers will have the exact same chassis.
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Old 06-20-2012, 09:46 AM   #1027
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DARKSIDE View Post
Hey you learned it from me...lol...
but nope it wasnt...I was on my phone posting...




on another note...The Speed Passion Citrix isnt slower than the Novaks. I think ppl see that its only $59 and think cause its cheaper its not as good..

well thats not true, but dont take my word for it...ask Dave Johnson 2012 Snowbirds USVTA National Champion, and 2011 USVTA Southern National Champion, or Jason Graham ROAR Region 5 Champion, or the 2012 USVTA Scale National Champion, all ran SP Citrix...

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So that is why you were trying to buy my Cirtix at the ThunderJam... You may have the power of belly button lint, but I have the power of the gloop inside lava lamps combined with paper hole punch dots!

I still think that the greater adjustability of the Novak makes it a "faster" ESC, and while I have not run against an X-Drive, if you believe even 1/10th of Novak's hype, it should be faster.

Quote:
Originally Posted by beemerfan View Post
On the "you need a high end chassis to be competitive" thing... I routinely place in the top 3 at the various Chicago area tracks I race at using a TC3. I will admit though that I spend way too much time on these toys.
The problem with this, is for every example of someone driving a TC3 to victory, I can find examples of people driving Xray T3's to wins as well. My personal opinion is that a newer chassis is easier to setup to drive fast, and has a wider range of setups that can be quick and competitive.

In the end, it is spec class racing. The important bits there are spec (thinly translated: to push the limits of every rule for speed) and racing (the reason you push those limits, to go faster then the other guy). VTA is easier and cheaper to participate in. It is not necessarily easier and cheaper to be competitive in. It depends on a lot of factors.

It is really up to the track and club to adjust for new drivers vs competitive spec racers. We recently split our VTA racers into 2 groups, club racers (participating for trophies and fun stuff) and national racers (those preparing for the Southern Nationals, no trophies, stricter tech, big focus on clean driving and clean passing). Tonight is the second race night with this format, so we will see how it works, but the first night went well, even with Myron showing us all that we need some more pace to compete.
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Old 06-20-2012, 10:39 AM   #1028
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I love a good chassi debate as well as the next guy. When that poll of what you drive was posted I was the only one to have a MI1.

Now Fathers day and my Birthday fell on the week this year. My wife and 8 year old bought me a 6.1 for both them days.

I love my MI1 bullet proof so far. Only thing I have broken on the car is a belt set and a front arm. (arm was due to crappy warped rims)

After learning the basics from Pete and Evo I have gotten better. Like PJ stated, Practice, practice, practice and more practice.

I could have gotten the newest Mission but parts are hard to get state side and well my local hobby shop carries TC stuff. Also this gives me a chance to run 21.5 or 17.5 is I wanted.

What I have found so far about cars is set ups. Running with Pete and dave franklin has only showed me that car setup and driver skill is better than timing max out.

I am racing this weekend at Kissimie race way for regional. think 10-15 cars for USVTA are showing up for the 2day event. Will I place...i think not but I race for fun rather than a wall hanger plaque.

What is boils down to is parts for a car vs. what car is the best. I have won races in my Mi1 but also lost huge due to parts issues.
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Old 06-20-2012, 10:49 AM   #1029
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we run fixed 3.7 gearing and no tire sauce.
I have run cyclone, tamyia 415, shafty yokomo, tc3, xray t2, tc4.
They all run very very similar times for me.
I often swap cars with a "slower" guy in practice so he can get the confidence that his car IS fast
I run xray as my asphalt track needs a very carpet like setup and xray has more carpet type options than any other manu, different stiffness arms chassis top deck etc...
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Old 06-20-2012, 10:50 AM   #1030
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When it comes to chassis choice, VTA really is no different then TC or frankly any RC (offroad, etc). The 2 main factors are what does the LHS support (for quick parts availability on race days) and what are other drivers driving (for setup help). You can be unique all you want, but if you are working with these 2 factors in mind, your experience will be easier and your learning curve will be faster.

I've been the guy with the oddball car that broke a bit in practice. I got to pack up and go home early because no one had the part. That is way less fun then any place you might finish.

I now drive a somewhat less common car, but the LHS supports it, and I have 2 of them plus all the common breaking items as spares. I am a little on my own for setups, but between general TC knowledge and the forums here, I muddle through. If I had an Xray T3 instead, my car would already be set up and running near perfect.
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Old 06-20-2012, 11:56 AM   #1031
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"Track time is invaluable and can't be ordered from Tower Hobbies."

That's sig' material right there

But very true.... old chassis' still win races because of the effort made on the racers behalf. One of the fastest guy locally kills it with a T2. Newer is better, but not necessarily faster.
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Old 06-20-2012, 02:16 PM   #1032
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Default spec chassie lmao

SO then its ok to put a $400 radio in spec chassie and a $400 charger and power source or do we all have to
use a spec radio/charger as well and then whats next spec track size
and layout and then what spec servos and so on
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Old 06-20-2012, 02:21 PM   #1033
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The whole chassis thing is something that is hard to make people understand. A brand new top of the line car is #1 brand new. Even in faster "race" classes, a new car seems better because it hasn't been piled into the boards 100x. The other thing is that as cars evolve, they have more adjustments that makes it easier to get them dialed.

However.....


As it has been noted, there are plenty of TC3 and 4 cars out there right now which are competitive. I have a TA05 (which I won at a TCS race) that is like 3 years old. That's my T/a car. I have upgraded it as I went along, but it's as fast as anything I have tried. I even remember a few years ago, one of the locals up here was killing us one Sunday- his car looked fantastic. So my buddy and I went over to see what he was up to. The body came off to reveal a TB02 with TRF shocks and an aluminum motor mount... other wise stock. Both of us facepalmed...it was crazy how good the car was. One of the best guys around here started with a XXS about 2-3 years ago since it was what he had when he got out of on road racing years before, and he always was top 3 running the car.

The deal with these guys is that they knew how to make their cars work well, and were good drivers. Sure, the new cars make this easier, but the demands on a chassis are not as high as 17.5 or 13.5 even. Some of these cheaper cars are not as good in faster classes. In VTA, you're not loading the car like you do in these other classes, so having graphite chassis or aluminum everything is not critical. In fact on asphalt, a lot of the tub cars are wicked when the traction is less than optimal. You just need to get the car adjusted correctly for the track. Most of the cars out there now have all the things you need to be competitive, unless you are trying to run a TA01 or a YR-4 or something..even then it might be ok if you know what you're doing.
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Old 06-20-2012, 02:34 PM   #1034
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Thanks for the good comments all. Very aware that you'll never stop people from wanting the better gear.
I seem to remember the original description of VTA saying something about "dragging out those older chassis" and now having a place to run them and be competitive.
Just seems that really simple concept is slowly being replaced. Personally I don't even understand why Novak made the timing adjustable on the Ballistic. But then again, there's nothing saying that VTA or ,at least, individual clubs or race programs couldn't make no timing rules. As for chassis, this is more a cost issue than anything else. I hate the idea that there seems to be a changing attitude towards this. Yes, some of us still feel comfortable with a 5 year old used TC5 or a 10 year old TC3....but we're becoming the exception and not the rule.
Hope that helps clarify my point. VTA is a great class and EVERY aspect of it needs to be promoted. Those who run programs should never be in the position or take the stance that a newer driver "needs" a top of the line package to have fun and be competitive.
Anybody remember the last time we saw a post asking "is the Sprint 2 or a Losi XXXS a good car for VTA". We should be seeing them more often.
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Old 06-20-2012, 03:13 PM   #1035
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Originally Posted by Evoracer View Post
Thanks for the good comments all. Very aware that you'll never stop people from wanting the better gear.
I seem to remember the original description of VTA saying something about "dragging out those older chassis" and now having a place to run them and be competitive.
Just seems that really simple concept is slowly being replaced. Personally I don't even understand why Novak made the timing adjustable on the Ballistic. But then again, there's nothing saying that VTA or ,at least, individual clubs or race programs couldn't make no timing rules. As for chassis, this is more a cost issue than anything else. I hate the idea that there seems to be a changing attitude towards this. Yes, some of us still feel comfortable with a 5 year old used TC5 or a 10 year old TC3....but we're becoming the exception and not the rule.
Hope that helps clarify my point. VTA is a great class and EVERY aspect of it needs to be promoted. Those who run programs should never be in the position or take the stance that a newer driver "needs" a top of the line package to have fun and be competitive.
Anybody remember the last time we saw a post asking "is the Sprint 2 or a Losi XXXS a good car for VTA". We should be seeing them more often.
I think part of this is also due to parts availability on older chassis. The losi kit you mentioned is awesome, especially the Type R version of it. But eBay is the only source of (mostly used) parts now. It's been discontinued for a few years now. Even though its a great car and should never have been discontinued, its difficult to want to drive something knowing that a single crash may not only end your day (due to no spares at the track) it may also end your chassis altogether and require a substantial new investment and time to build one and save up the money. As the years tick on, I think it's natural that we'll be hearing less and less from these platforms. It's just not practical to race them.

I just sold my Trinity t-spec on eBay for this very reason. Perfectly great car, especially for VTA. But no parts.

It's great that the TC4 is in production still. Solid platform. Inexpensive. Readily available parts and hop-ups. This really is the direction that new people should be going. They don't need a high end xray or a tc6.1. Nothing wrong with picking something older off eBay, but noobs are gonna crash and that means you'll need parts. VTA with it's lower speed is much more forgiving, but its still a concern.
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