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Old 09-07-2014, 10:19 PM   #7831
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Be careful , we'll see what happens at the race this year, but I don't think that held true last year. I believe EA for one was running a car older than 2yrs old. Some of the best cars that I've seen in VTA are the older Xrays. But in general, you may be right on the overall preference of a newer chassis.

We have a solid following at my home track and the top 2 qualifiers at our last race were both old Xrays (008 and/or 009).
Yep, I think EA was running Dirla's T2R and I was one step lower with the plastic bulkheaded RGT lol.
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Old 09-07-2014, 10:38 PM   #7832
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On the 21.5 motor issue - this is in part why we have an "OUTLAW" VTA Class in So. Cal (that doesn't get raced very often..but when we all get together, it's a KICK in the Pants!

We run 21.5 and the speed it produces is perfect for the size of the track we run it on.

There are other tracks out here that are doing just fine w/ "REAL" USVTA rules packages, and don't seem to have any issues (myself, I just like the Outlaw "GROUP" of racers!)

we run scale spec up in washington. 21.5 in the summer outdoors. once a year at one particular track they run a 13.5 vta class. vintage only and tons of power. they call it big block vta. still have not gotten to run it.
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Old 09-07-2014, 11:42 PM   #7833
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I think you just got a true a--hole on the phone, I have had no issues with novak, even got a call from bob novak about replacing an impact esc under warranty when it was out of warranty. good customer service is hard to come by these days.
After getting my M.B.A, motor back from Novak (warranty repair) stating that there was nothing wrong with it (even got a call from Bob too) the only thing that fixed the extreme cogging problem (motor wouldn't start my car without a push) was replacing the sensor board, which according to Novak was in perfect working order. Now that motor is one of the best 25.5 motors I have - but not because of the help I got from Novak.
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Old 09-08-2014, 12:11 AM   #7834
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Not to keep beating this dead horse but there are NO set rules for 25.5 motors at this time. That is the biggest hurdle you come to first. 21.5 is established and has ROAR rules and a process for things being approved....25.5 does not. Its hard to say any 25.5 when I can just take a 21.5 and put a 25.5 sticker and call it a 25.5 and there isnt anything you can do about it. All I would have to say is show me the rules to stop this from happening???



You do have a point with Loyalty.
Kevin you are right about the 25.5 specs; however, I got an email from ROAR a few months ago and they have 25.5 specs ready to go. I just don't know the latest status on that if/when they have been published. I assume and I support that without ROAR approved 25.5 motors, there will not be an open motor rule in USVTA. However, once there is a 25.5 ROAR approved motor list, I hope that USVTA consider an open motor rule.
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Old 09-08-2014, 07:08 AM   #7835
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ROAR has their own VTA rules. They are free to create rules for their version of the VTA class that best suit the racers who attend their events. Individual tracks are free to adopt ROAR VTA rules if their racers would prefer to run non-Novak 25.5 motors.

ROAR VTA rules should be sufficient for racers who don't like Novak or who want to use their motor dyno or Trinity Motolyser to find the "best" 25.5 motor available.

In the meantime, I will continue to enjoy racing using USVTA rules since they work extremely well at my local track.

----------

Here is something I find funny in this whole discussion. We as racers happily accept manufacturer specific spec rubber tires (in specific classes and/or at specific events) as a means to create a level playing field. Yet the idea of a manufacturer specific spec motor is unacceptable to many individuals.
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Old 09-08-2014, 07:52 AM   #7836
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I'm fine with running USVTA, the new esc rules are an improvement to the class and a lot more people I feel are willing to jump in because of it. If you win with your Novak esc, great. Lots of people have and I'm sure it will stay that way. The guys that can run with $50 esc's are happy now too.

The only thing I wish Roar and Usvta would come together on is the weight. That's it. I don't feel that bigger packs or other 25.5 motors make a massive difference, it's still about driving. But when one car is 100g lighter, that makes a difference. Both classes could run together no problem if there was a uniform weight. Just my .02... a handshake at say, 1500g, and it would be a done deal.
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Old 09-08-2014, 09:08 AM   #7837
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I think a reasonable way to find out if people are having to put a lot of ballast on their cars to make USVTA weight is to track it at a big event...such as the Southern Nationals.

Someone could compile a spreadsheet with as little info as total weight of car minus ballast or as much info as weight of individual components (chassis/battery/bodies/etc). Once you had the data you could analyze it to see if any obvious trends develop. You could also use the data to see exactly how many older chassis are still running and how competitively they are doing.

It should be said that the current weight rules aren't affecting the actual racing. Before a change is made that could penalize older/heavier chassis, it would be nice to see real numbers on ballast than just general speculation.
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Old 09-08-2014, 09:22 AM   #7838
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I think a reasonable way to find out if people are having to put a lot of ballast on their cars to make USVTA weight is to track it at a big event...such as the Southern Nationals.

Someone could compile a spreadsheet with as little info as total weight of car minus ballast or as much info as weight of individual components (chassis/battery/bodies/etc). Once you had the data you could analyze it to see if any obvious trends develop. You could also use the data to see exactly how many older chassis are still running and how competitively they are doing.

It should be said that the current weight rules aren't affecting the actual racing. Before a change is made that could penalize older/heavier chassis, it would be nice to see real numbers on ballast than just general speculation.
I'm with you, and certainly not trying to stir the pot here. I just see it as one of those things that would make it a lot easier for both groups to run together. Where I'm at, USVTA has come back in as being popular after the esc rules change. The National points system was a good idea and a lot of us jumped into that too. Problem is, not every race is going to be %100 Usvta. I'd like to be able to enter a club race where Roar rules are the "norm" and not have to put another car together, or spend a lot of time trying to pull weights and re-set the car. I'm guessing I can't be the only guy that feels this way. As time passes the older cars competing will become less and less. The modern cars require a ton of weight to be added. 5000 packs? Novak 25.5? Hey, no problem, both work just fine. I just think there would be less strife between the camps if we raced with the same weight. But again, I'm not here to stir the pot, it's just discussion. I like VTA, I want to see it grow even more as a class.
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Old 09-08-2014, 10:56 AM   #7839
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Its interesting to see how the topic of a conversation progresses over time. On this topic of weight. I have my chassis now balance to within 10g f/r & l/r. I had to add a couple hundred grams to my Dynamics 06 w/ aluminum chassis to make weight with a 5000mah pack. For the forseable future Inront see anything needing to change. Let the ESC rule change settle in for a bit before rocking the boat again. But IF a rules change were to happen, a lighter weight OR increase battery capicity should happen, NOT BOTH. Having a higher Mah batt would make it that much eaier to make weight, and being lighter would place less strain (although its not much as it is) on the electronics. I dont think the rules should change to be more like ROAR, otherwise, why have a seperate sactioning body?

For those advocating open motor, and for those against it due to lack of regulations for 25.5, how about this wrench in the cog, go to open 21.5 like USGT. Heck thats what those crazy Candians do already. Then we could race internationaly and still be different from ROAR. Please discuss and try and try to keep the comment war to a small skirmish, not nuclear.
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Old 09-08-2014, 11:28 AM   #7840
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I'm trying to remember how the saying goes..........something to the effect of "Speed is how hard you hit the wall, momentum is how far you push it".
torque is how for you push it
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Old 09-08-2014, 11:32 AM   #7841
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Originally Posted by IndyRC_Racer View Post
I think a reasonable way to find out if people are having to put a lot of ballast on their cars to make USVTA weight is to track it at a big event...such as the Southern Nationals.

Someone could compile a spreadsheet with as little info as total weight of car minus ballast or as much info as weight of individual components (chassis/battery/bodies/etc). Once you had the data you could analyze it to see if any obvious trends develop. You could also use the data to see exactly how many older chassis are still running and how competitively they are doing.

It should be said that the current weight rules aren't affecting the actual racing. Before a change is made that could penalize older/heavier chassis, it would be nice to see real numbers on ballast than just general speculation.
about 140ish grams I have to add to my TCXX for USVTA I will be at the Southern Nats - if anyone ones to verify it

however I might get to 'remove' some of the weight because of the new driver/interior I will be running down there... so maybe if I'm lucky, I'll only have to add 100g after mounting everything up
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Old 09-08-2014, 12:30 PM   #7842
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about 140ish grams I have to add to my TCXX for USVTA I will be at the Southern Nats - if anyone ones to verify it

however I might get to 'remove' some of the weight because of the new driver/interior I will be running down there... so maybe if I'm lucky, I'll only have to add 100g after mounting everything up

Would you email or post you TCXX VTA setup? My email is NVAMAN2298@GMAIL.COM.

I'm using a Cyclone TC for VTA but going to build a TCXX with an arrowmax chassis this winter to see if works any better in VTA - the old TC works pretty good as it is.
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Old 09-08-2014, 12:31 PM   #7843
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I have to add about 130 grams of ballast to my tc4 club racer to make the 1550 with a 5000mah pack. I think the weight should be uniform but stay over or at 1500grams. This keeps the cars close but also makes the handling a little more realistic too.
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Old 09-08-2014, 12:49 PM   #7844
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I have to add about 130 grams of ballast to my tc4 club racer to make the 1550 with a 5000mah pack. I think the weight should be uniform but stay over or at 1500grams. This keeps the cars close but also makes the handling a little more realistic too.
I've run the XXX-S and the TC3, I forgot how much but I did have to add some weight. 1500g would be a good number to work with IMO.

I have two shells at present, an HPI Camaro, and a J-71. The HPI is heavily painted and shoe-gooed, the J71 I went much lighter on the application of both. The difference in weight is 46g. So In a nutshell, if the Usvta rule was 1500g, I could basically switch between shells and have the weight I need for either version, give or take a few grams. It's just an example of finding a way to bridge the gap and not have to put two cars together.
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Old 09-08-2014, 01:17 PM   #7845
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My current TC4 tub chassis weighs 1435 grams without a body. My Gens Ace 5000 50c battery weighs 308 grams. I have a cooling fan on the motor, Hobby Wing speed control, aluminum shocks, plastic diffs,composite bones, and a TC3 carbon drive shaft. I do have a large front bumper to accommodate the Parma Cuda body I'm running.

1550 grams (no ballast) = my TC4 tub w/painted Protoform Javelin (not reinforced) - body weighs 115 grams
1585 grams (no ballast) = my TC4 tub w/painted Parma Cuda - body weighs 150 grams (not reinforced)
1615 grams (no ballast) = my TC4 tub w/painted HPI Cuda (thick lexan & reinforced front/rear goo+drywall tape - body weighs 180 grams

Here is a list of all the painted VTA bodies I have laying around that I've run on my TC4

110 grams - Pegasus Mustang - no reinforcement (green/white)
110 grams - Pegasus Mustang - no reinforcement (red/white/black)
115 grams - Protoform Javelin - no reinforcement (red/black)
130 grams - Pegasus Cuda/Big Fish - some reinforcement front/rear
150 grams - Parma Cuda - no reinforcement (green backed with black)
180 grams - HPI Cuda - excessive reinforcement & thick lexan (blue backed with white)

Here are 2 bodies unpainted/uncut

126 grams - McAllister Firebird
126 grams - McAllister Mustang

----------

I probably could get my car down to 1500 grams with a driver figure, but I would have to go into weight savings mode. The easiest weight savings would be to run a shorty lipo, but I would be giving up some potential performance compared to full sized batteries. I also could pick the lightest body with the fewest coats of paint, but if I wanted to race like that I would run 17.5 TC.

In my individual case I would have to buy new equipment if the weight requirement was lower to not handicap myself vs. the lighter cars.
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