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Old 09-04-2014, 04:18 PM   #7801
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The Southern Nats is Myrons race and he decided to have a Sportsman class. There is no provision for a sportsman class in the rules. I don't think there is a need to split classes.
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There's no need to split classes. Besides, you always need drivers to fill the B-main, C-main, D-main, etc.?
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Old 09-04-2014, 09:59 PM   #7802
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The Southern Nats is Myrons race and he decided to have a Sportsman class. There is no provision for a sportsman class in the rules. I don't think there is a need to split classes.
I agree. At least as far as the National set of rules is concerned. In most cases it would unnecessarily dilute the field of racers and put an unnecessary burden on the tracks that conduct the races. But at the Southern Nationals it has been done this way for several years and is only now an issue. I am surprised by the number of concerns we are getting over this very small detail. In reality if a racer wants his two points for national rankings instead of a very lovely sportsman VTA trophy then by all means sign up for the pro class. I promise it's ok. The class was set aside so that slower guys could take home some hardware. Not to discourage anyone from running the regular class. I appreciate Myron's and RobK's positions on this. There's no need to change rules or get upset over this. It was done for the slower guys. It's not there to cut anyone out of anything.

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Being an extreamly competative class doesnt also mean it cant be an entry level class. Those terms are not mutually exclusive. But with the given rule set, how can it not be an entry level class? But with that in mind I will be willing to bet every one of the amain drivers at the southern nats will have a car that is less than 2 years old
I'm sorry man. I'm not following this. To me entry-level means inexperienced driver+inexperienced at set up + inexperienced at gearing and tire prep= @$$ handed to driver in USVTA. I'm not denying that at many tracks VTA may be the best place to cut your teeth, but I still wouldn't call it an entry level class, as if that were it's purpose. I wasn't there when it all began, but I don't remember anything about it being a class for noobs. The only thing about USVTA that does lend it to the entry level driver is that the slower speeds are more forgiving.
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+1
There's no need to split classes. Besides, you always need drivers to fill the B-main, C-main, D-main, etc.?
I personally am not ashamed of an e main finish, but for a very casual racer like myself it's a neat class. Now that points are being accumulated nationally, I doubt that Myron will do it this way again. I bet the trophies are paid for and probably already on hand. I'm sure no one is forced to run sportsman that doesn't want to.
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Old 09-05-2014, 04:04 AM   #7803
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I am saying entry level due to the way the rules are set up.

Speed is a factor, but it not just because of the drivers ability to handle it. Due to slower speeds, the set-up window is larger. Now it takes time to get good at getting that perfect set-up, but a nube can quickly get a set-up that works.

Weight is another rule that points to beginner. It has been asked why the weight remains at 1550g. The resounding answer given is to allow NEW drivers the ability to buy inexpensive chassis (the TC4 is the preferred model), and still be, or at least appear to be, competative. The rule, at this point anyway, seems to be designed to attract those new drivers to USVTA over other classes. In no other class, in the hands of a new driver, would these cheap kits be competative.

Battery capacity and ESC's are another reason. This one simply has to due with cost, and how lower cost appeals to the new racer. Now I know the ESC rules have changed, but that is a recent change. The original list was made up of some the cheapest ESC's on the market.

The set it and forget it aspect of the one motor rule also appeals to new racers. No chasing the hottest motor. Just buy the one and go.

But even though the rules are set-up to appeal to that new driver, it doesnt mean a good driver cant work within those rules to creat a highly competative car and class.
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Old 09-05-2014, 05:45 AM   #7804
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Be careful , we'll see what happens at the race this year, but I don't think that held true last year. I believe EA for one was running a car older than 2yrs old. Some of the best cars that I've seen in VTA are the older Xrays. But in general, you may be right on the overall preference of a newer chassis.

We have a solid following at my home track and the top 2 qualifiers at our last race were both old Xrays (008 and/or 009).
I'll take that bet... I run an Xray T209 and have for years, I have ran it exclusively in VTA for the last 5 years . I've never been sponsored but I qualified and finished 3rd in VTA A-MAin at Snowbirds a few years ago. I've won many regional races with it, and consistently qualify in the A-Main no matter where I go. I believe Myron and EA can vouch that if I show up at your VTA race you will have to deal with the T209 in the A-Main.

It doesn't bother me to race with EA in VTA or another sponsored driver. They only make me better. My problem is I only race in the winter and take summers off completely so it takes a few races to get back in the rhythm....
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Old 09-05-2014, 07:17 PM   #7805
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I think its time to dump the novak motors!
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Old 09-05-2014, 07:42 PM   #7806
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nope...
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Old 09-05-2014, 07:55 PM   #7807
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I recently ran the Roar Nats in Kissimee last month and purchased the new D4 motor, I found that my Novak Boss ran a lot cooler and was just as fast than the D4 25.5. Now others that ran the d4 say it noticeabley faster, but I prefer the novak for now.
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Old 09-05-2014, 07:56 PM   #7808
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I don't completely agree with dumping Novak motors though I would like to see other motors become legal. Reedy and I believe trinity make 25.5 motors and many would agree are better quality motors than Novak
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Old 09-05-2014, 08:00 PM   #7809
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Guys have to quit looking at motors as being "NOVAK" motors, and instead get it in your head that it's the
USVTA "Spec" Motor by NOVAK.

Kindly THANK Novak for making a motor that Nobody else would when it was wanted, and their reward is "Exclusivity"
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Old 09-05-2014, 09:13 PM   #7810
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Originally Posted by jgraham37128 View Post
I'll take that bet... I run an Xray T209 and have for years, I have ran it exclusively in VTA for the last 5 years . I've never been sponsored but I qualified and finished 3rd in VTA A-MAin at Snowbirds a few years ago. I've won many regional races with it, and consistently qualify in the A-Main no matter where I go. I believe Myron and EA can vouch that if I show up at your VTA race you will have to deal with the T209 in the A-Main.

It doesn't bother me to race with EA in VTA or another sponsored driver. They only make me better. My problem is I only race in the winter and take summers off completely so it takes a few races to get back in the rhythm....
I think you misunderstood my post. There are indeed older cars running in A main, but IMO most run newer cars. We"d welcome you at our local track, you"d find it to be a great experience and the VTA competition will be very fun but very tough too. There are former ROAR national, state level, and a snowbird champ that run VTA there. It's tough but fun!
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Old 09-05-2014, 10:03 PM   #7811
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Originally Posted by PROMODVETTE View Post
I think its time to dump the novak motors!
If it hasn't been scrapped yet, I'd rather just dump the 45 degree max timing rule as it is unenforceable (at least at the club level - without expensive equipment) and it would penalize any manufacture (if the motor rule were opened up to any ROAR approved 25.5 motor) who actually put a true zero timing mark on their motor. More to come on that subject after I get more familiar with the Motorlyser.
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Old 09-05-2014, 10:18 PM   #7812
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If it hasn't been scrapped yet, I'd rather just dump the 45 degree max timing rule as it is unenforceable (at least at the club level - without expensive equipment) and it would penalize any manufacture (if the motor rule were opened up to any ROAR approved 25.5 motor) who actually put a true zero timing mark on their motor. More to come on that subject after I get more familiar with the Motorlyser.


I think you will see the max timing rule dropped before you see another motor other than Novak under the USVTA rules. This was in place because of people using the silver SS Novak motors and with the vast majority running back can motors now its really not needed. Once Rob gives his stamp on this we will all know....
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Old 09-05-2014, 10:32 PM   #7813
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Since I returned to on road racing in January, last week was the first race weekend that there were no USVTA cars to have a VTA class. Was it that this weekend we reverted back to USVTA rules? I don't know, but we had about a dozen VTA cars at the open motor rules race. However, there were 10 USGT cars powered by at least 7 different motors and the fastest to slowest best lap times were within about 1 second on a mid 16 second track layout. Having an open motor rule in USGT doesn't seem to have produced a "motor of the week" problem, at least here in Texas, like many here fear will happen in VTA.
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Old 09-05-2014, 10:48 PM   #7814
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Just raced my TC4 tonight in VTA. We had 15 cars

In practice I was a few tenths off the fastest cars. Added a sway bar to the front and got to about a tenth off. In the A-main I had to borrow a newer battery (compared to the 2+ year old battery I normally run) and was basically the same pace as the fastest car in the main. Was challenging for 2nd early in the race (from starting 7th) but made too many mistakes and finished 4th (right behind 3rd).

Oh forgot to mention I'm running a Ballistic motor with closed endbell that I built from parts off the shelf, so I have no idea if it is a good motor or not.

----------

The current USVTA formula works at our track. Typically in our A-mains, most of the cars fast laps are around a tenth of each other. There are many different chassis, bodies, and setups. I personally don't have to run the best equipment to have a chance at podium.

There really isn't a need for different brands of motors because the current spec motor is producing good racing right now. Good setup and driving win more races at our track than anything else.
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Old 09-05-2014, 10:51 PM   #7815
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Originally Posted by Kevin K View Post
I think you will see the max timing rule dropped before you see another motor other than Novak under the USVTA rules. This was in place because of people using the silver SS Novak motors and with the vast majority running back can motors now its really not needed. Once Rob gives his stamp on this we will all know....
You are probably right about that and there are serious and valid reasons the 45 degree rule should be dropped and I see more reasons now that I have the motorlyser. However, the next time Novak unilaterally makes changes to their "spec" motor, I hope that Rob stands up for us and says fine NOVAK, now start competing with everyone else. Loyalty is a great quality, but both parties have to be loyal to each other. IMO when blind loyalty lets you get taken advantage of by the other, then it's time to rethink the way things have been done in the past. Not a sermon - just a thought!
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