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Old 09-04-2014, 09:26 AM   #7786
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Here's the problem with the two classes of VTA...

If you're good enough to win Sportsman, you're good enough to be racing with the fast guys AND you should WANT to race against the best.

If you're driving around having fun in Sportsman, you could be driving around having fun in a single class system.

This was a fix to a problem that didn't exist...
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Old 09-04-2014, 09:33 AM   #7787
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I had a different response typed up, but decided to ask this question instead.

Why do sponsored drivers run USVTA?

I don't think we can call it an entry level class anymore. It is a nationally recognized TC spec class. It could be that USVTA may be the only way to get the chance to run an on-road / TC class at some tracks.
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Old 09-04-2014, 09:42 AM   #7788
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Around here it is because it has the largest field, it is the most competitive, closest racing with different winners every week and..., it is the most fun.

Other than that, I have no idea...
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Old 09-04-2014, 09:49 AM   #7789
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I think that sums it up nicely.
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Old 09-04-2014, 10:02 AM   #7790
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthRacer View Post
I don't think we can call it an entry level class anymore. It is a nationally recognized TC spec class. It could be that USVTA may be the only way to get the chance to run an on-road / TC class at some tracks.
USVTA should never have been considered an 'entry level' class - the class was designed for those racers that like running close door-to-door racing, where anyone (with driving skill) can win at any time. so to that reason, sure sponsored guys can run in the class - I don't have an issue with it. what I do have an issue with is when the sponsored guys want the class changed to meet their own (or sponsors) needs/wants, ie changing motor so the XX brand that they're sponsored with can be used..

If I was a sponsored driver (was a few years ago), I'd want to run a class that is closely matched and offers door-to-door racing, or a race with 1st thru 9th place are all on the same lap and/or within seconds of each other. to me, being able to lap the entire field (multiple times) gets boring

people around me call VTA an entry level class, and I always get in their face about that face... this class has never been entry level and I hope the competition only gets better - nothing makes racing more fun, for both the drivers and spectators, then seeing leads swap back and forth or the leading getting passed at the 8:05 mark (of an 8 min main) for the win - that happened to me last summer and as much as it sucked, it was the best racing I was ever involved in
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Old 09-04-2014, 10:12 AM   #7791
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"Sponsored" is an interesting term in the world of RC cars. I find it amusing that someone that is "sponsored" often pays for their equipment, and often at a price near what an unsponsored driver would pay. But there are a few drivers who actually get free stuff. They usually deserve it, both for their skills in driving, and in sharing information with potential users of their sponsor's equipment. Even these guys probably spend more money racing RC cars than I do!

At many times in my "career" of RC racing, there have been as many sponsored drivers qualified behind me as ahead of me, so I see no need for concern about any unfair advantage that being sponsored may bring (and it's much less of an advantage today than it used to be).

I am honored whenever a fast guy wants to be on the same track with me. The more, the merrier. I can occasionally pick up a new line through a corner from him, or more likely just get a good reference point for how fast I should be going (not that I'll ever get there, but it's good to know).

At most of the tracks where I race, VTA is a bigger class than TC. In some cases TC is non-existent. Most sponsored, fast guys prefer to run TC, but if TC isn't run-- or they simply want to run VTA-- then I see no reason to turn them away, and certainly no reason to put them in a different "class" of VTA. That's why there are mains from A to Z.
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Old 09-04-2014, 10:31 AM   #7792
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I come from a home track that has one driver who greatly out paces the other racers. He has run US Vintage Trans Am before just because it was a closer match, as opposed to lapping the field. Also because there weren't many even running TC.
I'm often the back marker. Saying,"Dangit is that you again?" When the leader comes up behind me.

You guys cleared it up pretty well, in that US Vintage Trans Am is not an entry level class, but a close spec class. I think the misconception of that comes from the fact that the slower speeds of US Vintage Trans Am make it more forgiving on the gear. So if there is no class for a noob to run then US Vintage Trans Am is still a better place for him than 17.5 TC. he still probably will not win, but at least he won't need a baggy to carry his car off the track.
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Old 09-04-2014, 10:32 AM   #7793
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I come from a home track that has one driver who greatly out paces the other racers. He has run US Vintage Trans Am before just because it was a closer match, as opposed to lapping the field. Also because there weren't many even running TC.
I'm often the back marker. Saying,"Dangit is that you again?" When the leader comes up behind me.

You guys cleared it up pretty well, in that US Vintage Trans Am is not an entry level class, but a close spec class. I think the misconception of that comes from the fact that the slower speeds of US Vintage Trans Am make it more forgiving on the gear. So if there is no class for a noob to run then US Vintage Trans Am is still a better place for him than 17.5 TC. he still probably will not win, but at least he won't need a baggy to carry his car off the track.
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Old 09-04-2014, 10:34 AM   #7794
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Hmm. The iphone usually doesn't double post.
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Old 09-04-2014, 10:37 AM   #7795
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Being an extreamly competative class doesnt also mean it cant be an entry level class. Those terms are not mutually exclusive. But with the given rule set, how can it not be an entry level class? But with that in mind I will be willing to bet every one of the amain drivers at the southern nats will have a car that is less than 2 years old
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Old 09-04-2014, 12:56 PM   #7796
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Quote:
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I will be willing to bet every one of the amain drivers at the southern nats will have a car that is less than 2 years old
Be careful , we'll see what happens at the race this year, but I don't think that held true last year. I believe EA for one was running a car older than 2yrs old. Some of the best cars that I've seen in VTA are the older Xrays. But in general, you may be right on the overall preference of a newer chassis.

We have a solid following at my home track and the top 2 qualifiers at our last race were both old Xrays (008 and/or 009).
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Old 09-04-2014, 02:20 PM   #7797
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A Losi XXX-S was one of several cars at last year's Southern Nats A-Main that could have won the event. Driver and getting the most out of your setup has always been the most important thing in USVTA.

Personally, I am not the best at setup nor do I put as much effort into prepping/maintaining my VTA cars. However I have been a good enough driver to qualify in the A-main at every national VTA event I've been to running either a TC3 or TC4. Sometimes I wasn't in the A-main, but it wasn't because the pros/sponsored guys were blowing my doors off. The pros just managed all the little things better than me (gearing/setup/driving/tire prep/etc).

I have no problem running USVTA against the best r/c drivers in the world AS LONG AS TECH IS BEING RUN PROPERLY. At any big USVTA event that I've attended with good tech (big events don't always have good tech IMHO), the bulk of the field has been very close overall. My ego might not always like getting beat by the pros. However I've learned to realize that my own car probably has much more potential in it that I have yet to realize.
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Old 09-04-2014, 02:51 PM   #7798
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As far as a need for a PRO vs Sportman VTA class, that really is an issue for local race directors and not national rules.

If local racers are being discouraged racing ANY CLASS, the race director should find out why.
- Is it because the racer isn't a good driver and is causing problems on the track for others? The race director needs to find that racer help to improve their skills (maybe some free practice time at the track).
- Is it because the racer's car/equipment isn't setup well for that specific class? The race directors needs to help the racer find a local racer who can help them with their car.
- Is it because the pro/sponsored driver's are running over the slower guys or being jerks and ruining other's fun? The race director needs to remind the pro's/sponsored guys that they aren't the only people on the track. They should ask that the pros work with the "Joe's" on how to race in traffic and pass/be passed. If someone is a jerk (pro or joe), the racer director should let that person know that their behavior won't be tolerated and that they will be asked to leave.

We can split up USVTA into small subsets, but it will never solve the issues of lack of talent/poor setup/poor sportmanship. Let's allow local race directors deal with these issue.
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Old 09-04-2014, 03:19 PM   #7799
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IndyRC- Both of your posts are very good....especially about local promoters paying attention enough to keep the local racing clean and fair!!!

Nobody should be afraid to race with "so called" team racers. As Indy stated, the local promoters should be keeping an eye on tech and making sure that there is no special equipment being used from Factory racers. If the equipment is all legal, then less experienced racers can learn from more experienced racers. Fair rules enforcement is one of the key elements that makes VTA racing so successful.

By the way, most "so called" team racers are really just getting a discount from a manufacturer, not necessarily a great racer, and this has always been an element in destroying local racing.
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Old 09-04-2014, 03:37 PM   #7800
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The Southern Nats is Myrons race and he decided to have a Sportsman class. There is no provision for a sportsman class in the rules. I don't think there is a need to split classes.
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