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Old 06-12-2014, 07:14 PM   #7591
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ah you remembered. what were you doing in court. you need to get down to valkaria for some great vta racing.
I will man, I will... hmu if any racing is going on before July.
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Old 06-12-2014, 07:30 PM   #7592
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Originally Posted by Rodney Racer View Post
The ROAR specs are for the motor dimensions, there is no wire size spec'd for the 25.5 motor, so that parameter is wide open for whoever/whatever each manufacturer decides to make, sounds like D3.5 all over again. The easiest way to police it is to have one manufacturers motor, which hopefully doesn't decide to change their build partways thru a run of product. NOVAK being the first to comply with the 25.5 motor has given them the "rights" to that privilege. Remember they where the ones to build the 25.5 when no one else was interested.
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Old 06-12-2014, 08:57 PM   #7593
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Sounds like a bunch of bench racing going on in hear !!! Slackers especially from the select Florida boys are any of you doing any racing any time soon or are we just gonna listen to how fast you once were I know I'm dying to get back on the track ASAP any racing for Father's Day or what ???
Then maybe you ought to hold a race again before mid-August!
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Old 06-12-2014, 09:58 PM   #7594
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Then maybe you ought to hold a race again before mid-August!


So what do we have coming up before FTR July 5-6? and does anyone know if that weekend is Novak/1550 or roar?

You getting the new evo MI5 ?
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Old 06-13-2014, 02:55 AM   #7595
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NOVAK being the first to comply with the 25.5 motor has given them the "rights" to that privilege. Remember they where the ones to build the 25.5 when no one else was interested
NOVAK didn't really "Comply" with the 25.5 motor, they BUILT the 25.5 (I believe I had the first 2 for testing for 2c Oval Racing) way back when the VTA was still running 4 cell / brushed.

Someplace I still have one of those prototypes - traded the other off to a guy w/ a crawler - (they were both DIFFERENT - Novak was trying something different in each one) and I'm not sure how they compared to what went into production.

(They also built us some of THE FIRST 17.5's and 21.5's prior to that) -- those were really fun days testing the NEW MOTORS (that other Motor Mfg's said there would NEVER be a market for - ) and truth be told NOVAK thought we were CRAZY asking for a "SLOWER" motor -
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Old 06-13-2014, 08:13 AM   #7596
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I've tried running cars without them thinking it would add traction. But for the asphalt tracks I run at putting them on the car made things better... car stayed more level so the contact patch across both tires was better. Of course I could see going to really thick bars and the result going back to a lack of traction.

One thing about VTA is that is has forced me to try things . In the past when I ran TC I just ran it right out of the box and focused on tires and saucing. Maybe it's the lack of traction or downforce, but I find that in this class I have to change things to stay reasonably competitive. Sometimes I get it right and creep into the top 3, other days I just try to to stay out of peoples way I figure any day when I can keep Scotty behind me for at least 2 or 3 laps is pretty good.
I agree. I love tuning TCs after I started racing USVTA. I can see what the handling difference was after the change and I am always willing to try something different to see if it improves the feel of the car. Tuning off-road is somewhat of a guessing game for me but on-road setup knowledge has translated into better off-road setup ability.
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Old 06-13-2014, 08:38 AM   #7597
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NOVAK didn't really "Comply" with the 25.5 motor, they BUILT the 25.5 (I believe I had the first 2 for testing for 2c Oval Racing) way back when the VTA was still running 4 cell / brushed.

Someplace I still have one of those prototypes - traded the other off to a guy w/ a crawler - (they were both DIFFERENT - Novak was trying something different in each one) and I'm not sure how they compared to what went into production.

(They also built us some of THE FIRST 17.5's and 21.5's prior to that) -- those were really fun days testing the NEW MOTORS (that other Motor Mfg's said there would NEVER be a market for - ) and truth be told NOVAK thought we were CRAZY asking for a "SLOWER" motor -
A lot of people thought we were crazy too wanting to go from 6C to 4C in oval.
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Old 06-13-2014, 08:39 AM   #7598
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can you get off your butt and get my fancy pit towel front texas roadhouse. yes the florida boys are racing this weekend. lol. we need the wheeltime.
Parking lot racing @ Quaker Steak & Lube, cant wait
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Old 06-13-2014, 09:00 AM   #7599
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There is no confusion on ROAR's part. You would be amazed at the number of manufacturers that state their products are ROAR approved when they simply are not.



Here are the specs I presented to ROAR when I was technical director:

ROAR Spec 25.5 motor:

Winding:
The winding must be two strands of parallel wire 25.5 turns, each pole.
Each strand must have a maximum conductor diameter of 0.0256 inch.

Resistance:
The resistance between terminals A to B, A to C, and B to C must be at least 102.1 milliohms at 25C, when measured over a range of 20 to 30 degrees C and multiplied by a correction factor of (1-((T_measured-25)*0.00393)).

None of this made it into the latest rule book. Terminal resistance was a new spec I suggested (for all motors) to permit quick, non-destructive testing. Don't expect it to be added to the rules in the near future.

No 25.5 motors have been approved since there are no rules for them.
Thanks Howard BTW I like the idea of terminal resistance, just thought they were doing it already in TECH inspections (at least they should have been) but perhaps not as a design spec.

I've been dynoing several 25.5 motors and so far there is only one that comes close to the BOSS 25.5 in terms of power, torque, and acceleration at the same or less amp draw. (BTW the D3.5 25.5 isn't the one).
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Old 06-14-2014, 09:10 AM   #7600
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just a few podium pics from our regional race



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U.S. Vintage Trans-Am Racing Part 2-roar-vta-winners.jpg   U.S. Vintage Trans-Am Racing Part 2-usvta-winners.jpg  
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Old 06-14-2014, 09:49 AM   #7601
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Congrats to the winners but two Amains and two TQ's??? Im confused...

As for the motor testing, if the Novak is putting down the number like that, Novak may not want ROAR to make specs for 25.5. They may be out of the paramiters that get set.
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Old 06-14-2014, 10:03 AM   #7602
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Congrats to the winners but two Amains and two TQ's??? Im confused...
As for the motor testing, if the Novak is putting down the number like that, Novak may not want ROAR to make specs for 25.5. They may be out of the paramiters that get set.
ROAR VTA and USVTA

cause we cant just run usvta in florida without some kind of bitching
we just run them both and every one is HAPPY HAPPY HAPPY
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Old 06-14-2014, 10:41 AM   #7603
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So at the same track, on the same day, runs both ROAR VTA and USVTA? You guess must have HUGE turnouts to support that. Im glad to see on-road RC that big.

I know I've mad a stink about USVTA rules in the past, but if my track switch back to them tommorow, I'd race it. I dont know how I would handle being at a track that does both. That also adds anout an hour and a half to the race day doesnt it? Just to race essentially the same class? Oh well, but if is what works for you guys then keep it going and keep having fun
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Old 06-14-2014, 10:42 AM   #7604
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What kind of variances were there in laptimes between the two VTA classes?

How did the Novak motors fair in the open, anything goes, beyond Thunderdome "25.5" ROAR environment?

I think ROAR VTA rules are fine until you get to the motor section. That's where they completely go off the rails!
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Old 06-14-2014, 11:50 AM   #7605
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So at the same track, on the same day, runs both ROAR VTA and USVTA? You guess must have HUGE turnouts to support that. Im glad to see on-road RC that big.

I know I've mad a stink about USVTA rules in the past, but if my track switch back to them tommorow, I'd race it. I dont know how I would handle being at a track that does both. That also adds anout an hour and a half to the race day doesnt it? Just to race essentially the same class? Oh well, but if is what works for you guys then keep it going and keep having fun
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What kind of variances were there in laptimes between the two VTA classes?

How did the Novak motors fair in the open, anything goes, beyond Thunderdome "25.5" ROAR environment?

I think ROAR VTA rules are fine until you get to the motor section. That's where they completely go off the rails!
And the Novak boss won the roar VTA class
And bobby Watson won usvta with a used EBay special

I will see if I can get the qualifying sheets
But you can clearly see the roar VTA was faster .....
We did run a 8 min inverted start USVTA A main
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