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Old 06-07-2014, 08:01 PM   #7471
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The biggest issue that people fail to grasp is there are no ROAR rules for how to make a 25.5 motor. Period!! So its not like all the other spec motor classes where there are baseline rules to follow that ROAR has published. Because there are no ROAR rules for 25.5 motors there is no way to even tell what is going on inside any 25.5 motor. Hence the reason that the class is still Novak only as they are all made the same way with the same specs...yes some motors are faster than others thats part of any variance but its still the same core motor. Asking for a change to the motor rules without there being any standard 25.5 motor rules is clearly putting the cart before the horse.

Sometimes we need to step out of our house to see whats going on around us.
Hey i took your advice. I stepped. Outside and saw eveyone converting to roar.
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Old 06-07-2014, 08:01 PM   #7472
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The validity of the argument being made is not one of "do the older motors perform as well as the newer ones?". They clearly do. I believe the point being made is it is not a one motor class, it is a one manufacturer class. That manufacturer discontinued and created a new motor with little to no warning, and the class was forced to adapt in order to keep going.

If it were a one motor class, then the BOSS or Ballistic would be the only motor allowed. As it sits there aretechnically 3 motors allowed, but all are/were made by Novak. I understand why the new motors were allowed. If you stated only discontinued motors are allowed, it puts new racers at a huge disadvantage having to track down used motors, while at the same time driving the price of those motors through the roof. If you only allow the new motors, then it puts a strain on existing racers to replace their equipment. Either scenario puts undue pressure on the class that could easily cause a collapse. But it is not a one motor class, so why does everyone still call it that?
^This.

Like i said, either make it a fully stock class (handout or ONE esc and ONE motor) or just open it.

Every time Novak puts anything out for VTA, it seems like its instant approved cuz its Novak.

No vented end bells allowed? Not for Novak. It's just contradictory.
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Old 06-07-2014, 09:03 PM   #7473
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Just to be clear, I am not pushing for or advocating a motor rule change. I was just stating that I understand the current motor rules and trying to explain my understanding of them in order to help others. I just dont understand calling it a "one motor class" as the way the rules are currently written.

As for keeping this class affordable, the weight rule helps to even out having newer chassis over older ones, as do the bodies and tires. But with having only one manufacturer of motor, the Novak is the highest priced 25.5 out there. Hell its even pricier than the new Vulcan motors. And the tires are more expensive than TC or USGT tires. Yes they MAY last longer than TC but definately not longer than the USGT rides, and supply get a little dicey from time to time.

Not advocating any rule changes here either, but pointing out that this class is not as affordable as people are led to believe when getting into it. Especially if they are the type that likes to get things new. There are some out there that just dont like used, and you cant base the affordabilty of something based on a fluctuating used market.
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Old 06-07-2014, 09:31 PM   #7474
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Hey i took your advice. I stepped. Outside and saw eveyone converting to roar.
Living in Florida is bad for your health
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Old 06-07-2014, 09:51 PM   #7475
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Originally Posted by theproffesor View Post
Just to be clear, I am not pushing for or advocating a motor rule change. I was just stating that I understand the current motor rules and trying to explain my understanding of them in order to help others. I just dont understand calling it a "one motor class" as the way the rules are currently written.

As for keeping this class affordable, the weight rule helps to even out having newer chassis over older ones, as do the bodies and tires. But with having only one manufacturer of motor, the Novak is the highest priced 25.5 out there. Hell its even pricier than the new Vulcan motors. And the tires are more expensive than TC or USGT tires. Yes they MAY last longer than TC but definately not longer than the USGT rides, and supply get a little dicey from time to time.

Not advocating any rule changes here either, but pointing out that this class is not as affordable as people are led to believe when getting into it. Especially if they are the type that likes to get things new. There are some out there that just dont like used, and you cant base the affordabilty of something based on a fluctuating used market.
I fully understand what you are saying.

One thing that we all have to take into account is that we as racers are going to spend what we can depending on our own personal budget. RC Racing or any hobby for that matter does have its cost up front to get going. After that you determin your budget and limits on things. If you want to race around on bald tires and a cracked body then thats really your choice or if you want to have the best of the best so be it.

So is the class affordable that depends on your budget what one person sees as being affordable someone else might see as being expensive. It comes down to the fact that "affordable" is a relative term to the person using it.

In the end the USVTA rules are just that rules....if you want to follow them and attend races that follow these rules you know what you have to do...just like if you are going to a ROAR race you know you will have to follow ROAR rules. What you need to do locally is another thing if it helps your local program to use any 25.5 motor or any other change then do it. Just know what the National set of rules are when you are going to a race following them.
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Old 06-07-2014, 09:54 PM   #7476
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Living in Florida is bad for your health
No no, it's all good here in the sunshine state Plenty of fresh OJ to be found, we stay off the Kool-aid
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Old 06-07-2014, 09:59 PM   #7477
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No no, it's all good here in the sunshine state Plenty of fresh OJ to be found, we stay off the Kool-aid
Kool-Aid is good!!!

Maybe we will have to "spike" it with something to get you boys in land of sunshine and Fresh OJ to see it the "USVTA" way.....
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Old 06-08-2014, 02:38 AM   #7478
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[QUOTE=Kevin K;13319592]L lets see. Bone chilling blizzards. Icy roads. And no sun for months. And we all remember that oh so long winter of last year. No thanks. Im enjoying racing at valkaria. Sunny breezy. Great group of vta racers. Good times

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Old 06-08-2014, 03:17 AM   #7479
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The biggest issue that people fail to grasp is there are no ROAR rules for how to make a 25.5 motor. Period!!
Bingo!

But ROAR really needs to spec and approve some 25.5 motors soon, since they have required 25.5T motors for VTA since September 14, 2013:

http://www.roarracing.com/downloads/..._Rule_Book.pdf

8.7.10.2 Motor and Battery Rules:
 25.5 turn brushless with 2S 7.4v lipo battery. ROAR Approved Non Timing speed control Level 3, 4 & 5 events shall only use this combo.

To be fair, I presented rules for 25.5 motors (along with other updates) to ROAR for ratification in August of 2013. They just didn't make their way into the rule book when it was changed a month later.

And to be fair to this thread, this post really belongs in a different, "ROAR VTA" thread, as others have previously suggested creating. Who wants to start one?
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Old 06-08-2014, 08:02 AM   #7480
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...but pointing out that this class is not as affordable as people are led to believe when getting into it. Especially if they are the type that likes to get things new. There are some out there that just dont like used, and you cant base the affordabilty of something based on a fluctuating used market.
With a new TC4 it seems affordable. The other costs are fixed really the same for all if you are buying new stuff. Myron and others (not me!) can take TC4's and TC3's to the podium and often do. If they change the weight rule, then the class will get as expensive as other classes because you will have to buy expensive chassis.

I just bought another TC3 last week for $55 used. All it needs is to be taken apart, fully cleaned and inspected, which I enjoy doing, and put back together. Maybe some new parts such as a steering rack and some bearings. Nice to know that its really fully competitive at that point in VTA and bargain priced.
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Old 06-08-2014, 12:43 PM   #7481
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Kool-Aid is good!!!

Maybe we will have to "spike" it with something to get you boys in land of sunshine and Fresh OJ to see it the "USVTA" way.....
Just hold the Gin, and mail us all some discount vouchers for use towards brand-new Novak esc's. Well, actually hold off on that until we know what the big announcement is; if us VTA has made the right choice....
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Old 06-08-2014, 04:04 PM   #7482
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any ideas on dates for this year's Southern Nationals?

Myron?? Dirla?? anyone

me and a couple of guys from PA/NJ are looking to make the trek and need to make sure we got it all planned out correctly
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Old 06-08-2014, 04:17 PM   #7483
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any ideas on dates for this year's Southern Nationals?

Myron?? Dirla?? anyone

me and a couple of guys from PA/NJ are looking to make the trek and need to make sure we got it all planned out correctly
who you bring with you is completely up to you.

me I prefer brunettes and she has to have long legs. I like a girl with long legs.
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Old 06-08-2014, 04:18 PM   #7484
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who you bring with you is completely up to you.

me I prefer brunettes and she has to have long legs. I'm kind of a leg man.
trust me, I'd rather have leggy brunettes as well - add in a nice hiney too

but sadly, all the people I know like that aren't into playing with toy cars for bowling trophies
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Old 06-08-2014, 08:03 PM   #7485
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Hope everyone had a great weekend racing Vintage Trans-Am

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