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Old 02-24-2014, 05:42 AM   #6241
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I had a ball at SUMMIT RC RACEWAY this weekend, They have a great facility and everything went well. It was a GREAT TIME and I am looking forward to next year. Thanks to Hardesty and the crew because everything went SMOOTH!!!!!!
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Old 02-24-2014, 05:52 AM   #6242
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talking about the boss vta motors i bought one in october and it always seemed doggy compared to other motors. recently i had a friend put it on dyne and i could not get it over 1.5 amp draw and less then 14,000 rpm. i had to twist past sticker to get it to come to life. so i guess what I'm saying is that lil sticker off just like 1/8 inch and ur motor can't really be tuned. not really much anyone can do I'm just throwing my 2 cents in there….
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Old 02-24-2014, 06:02 AM   #6243
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Originally Posted by nf_ekt View Post
I wish they would machine the timing marks in, or find a better solution than having a decal that is easy to misplace...
I don't know what it cost to do that, but it does seem like the best solution.
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Old 02-24-2014, 07:21 AM   #6244
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And with this being part of the USVTA rules:
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Only physical motor timing advance is allowed, however Ballistic motors must not be advanced beyond the last line of the timing range sticker.
Well, Novak had better be getting those stickers in the right dang spot! Unfortunately, it's obvious that they aren't. Not to mention....wouldn't it be easy for someone to relocate their sticker if they were looking to cheat and crank in more timing?

To use a sticker for the timing marks....for this class....when you're already charging a premium for the motor..... It's simply not a good idea.

I really think Novak needs to do something about this.
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Old 02-24-2014, 07:27 AM   #6245
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Best thing would be having your motor tuned on a dyno, then lock it down and leave it alone after that I guess. I've never been a fan of the sticker when every other manufacturer's motors are etched into the body. Seems cheap
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Old 02-24-2014, 07:40 AM   #6246
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With the SS motors we used to line up a screw on the housing to the endbell and that was zero and every .5 mm was roughly a degree. What is that unwritten zero point on the Ballistic/Boss cans?
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Old 02-24-2014, 07:51 AM   #6247
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Would tuning it on a dyno tell you what you had for timing? Also not many people have access to a brushess dyno. In any case a sticker is just a sad joke. Put a friggin mark on it. Whether its etched in or machined in, the sticker should go.

The rules of the class are set up to elimiate the "motor war" issue. And keep things simple and inexpensive. But i believe dynoing motors kinda makes it worse. You have a special group of people who can afford to buy multiples of the same motor, and test test test until they get one that is better than the rest, then sell the scrap to make some $$$ back. Now before I get reamed, most of the time you can, and people do, just take it out of the package, slap it in a chassis, and go win with it. It is just despariging when you see one novak motor pull on onther on a straight-away.
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Old 02-24-2014, 08:16 AM   #6248
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Would tuning it on a dyno tell you what you had for timing? Also not many people have access to a brushess dyno. In any case a sticker is just a sad joke. Put a friggin mark on it. Whether its etched in or machined in, the sticker should go.

The rules of the class are set up to elimiate the "motor war" issue. And keep things simple and inexpensive. But i believe dynoing motors kinda makes it worse. You have a special group of people who can afford to buy multiples of the same motor, and test test test until they get one that is better than the rest, then sell the scrap to make some $$$ back. Now before I get reamed, most of the time you can, and people do, just take it out of the package, slap it in a chassis, and go win with it. It is just despariging when you see one novak motor pull on onther on a straight-away.
This is why we went with a RPM limit at our track. Previously we had a FDR limit but some cars were a full second faster than others. We have a very small track and imposed some pretty strict speed limits to keep things safe, slower, and still competitive.

We now use handheld non-contact laser RPM meters (from Amazon, $17) to make sure that no car's unloaded RPM is faster than others. We have a 2550 upper limit which we tech before you can put your car on the track.

We are very pleased with the results. The racing is very close and competitive. You really have to setup and drive your car well. There has been a different A-main winner almost every week.

When we first tach'd the cars my car turned close to 400 more rpm than my brothers car and we both had the same FDR and we at max timing per the sticker.

I agree, the sticker seems pretty rubbish.
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Old 02-24-2014, 08:18 AM   #6249
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I race VTA at a very large track- if you don't have the top end, you are going to be walked away from. Yes, I understand corner speed / setup mean a lot, but that is not the entire picture. Set up or no set up, when you have a really long straight and some cars are simply faster, there isn't much you can do. There seems to be an unspoken agreement amongst those racing to ignore the label , because those of us that have raced the class for some time have seen (just like in a previous post) that the decal does not appear to be dead-on with every motor.... so the stringent timing rules have gone out the window.

Ok, so I get it that machining precise marks into the end bell could raise costs (these motors already cost enough), but how hard would it be to etch one solid line into the end bell, and use that as a starting spot for the timing decal? Just make it a line that goes from top to bottom, so it is clear and not something that could be covered up / altered, and line the edge of the decal up to that? I would think that for the guy who is paid to put these things on, it would make life a lot easier. And at least we would have some degree of precision. Ideally they they need to machine all the marks in but short of that, what I'm describing is the best compromise I can think of. But just slapping a decal on there and saying "yup, that's it, that's your timing adjustment Bud " .... not so good. Never been to one of the bigger races, but at the club level this just leave all kinds of room to alter the decal position. That's my .02
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Old 02-24-2014, 08:22 AM   #6250
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meradin View Post
We now use handheld non-contact laser RPM meters (from Amazon, $17) to make sure that no car's unloaded RPM is faster than others. We have a 2550 upper limit which we tech before you can put your car on the track.


When we first tach'd the cars my car turned close to 400 more rpm than my brothers car and we both had the same FDR and we at max timing per the sticker.

I agree, the sticker seems pretty rubbish.
Question- Is this a good idea ? (I'm not flaming you, and I could be wrong so I'm asking), but are you saying you free-rev the motors to test them? Could this damage a motor? I like where you are going with this, just not too sure about the method used.
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Old 02-24-2014, 08:25 AM   #6251
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Question- Is this a good idea ? (I'm not flaming you, and I could be wrong so I'm asking), but are you saying you free-rev the motors to test them? Could this damage a motor? I like where you are going with this, just not too sure about the method used.
There checking wheel rpm/speed, not the rpm of a unloaded motor.
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Old 02-24-2014, 08:26 AM   #6252
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Originally Posted by nf_ekt View Post
Question- Is this a good idea ? (I'm not flaming you, and I could be wrong so I'm asking), but are you saying you free-rev the motors to test them? Could this damage a motor? I like where you are going with this, just not too sure about the method used.
If I remember correctly, they are measuring it at the wheel. So it is not really a free rev of the motor per say.
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Old 02-24-2014, 08:33 AM   #6253
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There checking wheel rpm/speed, not the rpm of a unloaded motor.
I see, thanks for clarifying.

Anyways, I still think the decal situation needs to be improved. I've been a supporter of USVT vs. ROAR VTA rules, but it's kind of hard to argue with the guys that want ROAR rules when they can simply point to this flaw with the Novak motor. I like the idea of total spec racing, but with this cost-saving approach I think it's missing the mark, no pun intended.
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Old 02-24-2014, 08:34 AM   #6254
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there is a way to tell f the sticker has been removed...or moved around
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Old 02-24-2014, 08:35 AM   #6255
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nf_ekt View Post
Question- Is this a good idea ? (I'm not flaming you, and I could be wrong so I'm asking), but are you saying you free-rev the motors to test them? Could this damage a motor? I like where you are going with this, just not too sure about the method used.
Free-revving a 25.5 won't cause any damage.
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