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Old 08-26-2013, 07:27 PM   #5056
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Originally Posted by wwddww34 View Post
I understand that Novak was the only motor mfgr. that took USVTA seriously enough to make a 25.5 motor. Over the last 3 years USVTA has grown significantly and has caught the attention of several other motor makers and now they are kicking themselves for not getting in at the ground level.
shouldnt they be given a chance ? other brands are allowed in USGT
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Old 08-26-2013, 07:37 PM   #5057
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Novak is the motor because there should not be a motor of the week situation for this class. They have worked with us to keep the motors as even as possible when they have been updated, and they also have had motor trade ins in the past when we switched winds. Few other brands would have done this to assist us when it was time for a change.

USGT is a different, faster class. The rules are a little less restrictive because it is the next notch on the ladder.
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Old 08-26-2013, 08:03 PM   #5058
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What Rob said!

If I could rant for a minute, racing isn't UPWARD! sports. We DO keep score, not everyone wins, and there is a difference in talent/resources/time/effort involved. Yes, winning is great. Yes, winning is the ultimate goal. There can only be one winner. Turn your frustration into motivation. If you fall short, keep trying! If you are short on time/money/talent, learn to enjoy the process. :-)
Rant off.

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Old 08-27-2013, 11:56 AM   #5059
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The question of 1 motor manufacturer comes up in this thread from time to time. Rob's (robk) post above explains the reason.

The VTA motor rule is unique in another sense exactly because it isn't a motor of the moment class. I bet if we took a poll, many USVTA racers have been running the same Novak 25.5 motor for several years. I bet some of the best racers are winning with 'old' motors. And while some people might not like Novak products, the Novak 25.5 motors have proven to be very reliable for USVTA.

Here is another way to look at the motor rule. Since you don't have to spend money buying new motors to stay competitive, this class is actually cheaper in the long run.

----------

I would also like to point out that for a spec series, we really only have 2 things that everyone must run
1. Novak 25.5 motors (3 different choices - SS, Ballistic, Boss)
2. HPI vintage wheels with HPI D compound vintage tread tires.

Other than the above, there are plenty of options in each area of the rules.
- 20 bodies from 6 manufacturers
- 16 speed controls from 4 manufacturers
- A hard cased 2-cell lipo battery with a 5000 mah max limit (multiple manufacturers)
- Any 4wd touring car chassis

Because there are so many options, you can spend as much or as little as you want in VTA and still be competitive. There is no best chassis, body, speed control, or battery in VTA (just personal preference). Any combination of the above can win in VTA.

The only exception is that some chassis require modifications to work well in VTA, ie gearing on a Tamiya TT-01 or fitting a full length lipo in the JRXS-R or HPI Pro-3
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Last edited by IndyRC_Racer; 08-27-2013 at 01:50 PM.
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Old 08-27-2013, 12:10 PM   #5060
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Originally Posted by IndyRC_Racer View Post
The question of 1 motor manufacturer comes up in this thread from time to time. Rob's (robk) post above explains the reason.

The VTA motor rule is unique in another sense exactly because it isn't a motor of the moment class. I bet if we took a poll, many USVTA racers have been running the same Novak 25.5 motor for several years. I bet some of the best racers are winning with 'old' motors. And while some people might not like Novak products, the Novak 25.5 motors have proven to be very reliable for USVTA.

Here is another way to look at the motor rule. Since you don't have to spend money buying new motors to stay competitive, this class is actually cheaper in the long run.

----------

I would also like to point out that for a spec series, we really only have 2 things that everyone must run
1. Novak 25.5 motors (3 different choices - SS, Ballistic, Boss)
2. HPI vintage wheels with HPI D compound vintage tread tires.

Other than the above, there are plenty of options in each area of the rules.
- 20 bodies from 6 manufacturers
- 16 speed controls from 4 manufacturers
- A hard cased 2-cell lipo battery with a 5000 mah max limit (multiple manufacturers)
- Any 4wd touring car chassis

Because there are so many options, you can spend as much or as little as you want in VTA and still be competitive. There is no best chassis, body, speed control, or battery in VTA (just personal preference). Any combination of the above can win in VTA.

The only exception is that some chassis require modifications to work well in VTA, ie gearing on a Tamiya TT-01 or fitting a full length lipo in the JRXS-R or HPI Pro-3
perfect Brian
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Old 08-27-2013, 12:43 PM   #5061
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But there are also variations in the Novak motors. If you find one that runs well, better take care of it cause you might not get so lucky with the next one.

I'd say the "fast" guys probably buy more than one motor, so there goes the "savings" aspect.

But these are simply my opinions and are only valid based on my experiences.
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Old 08-27-2013, 12:49 PM   #5062
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I bought a Novak Club ESC and the SS motor that came in a combo kit. Put it in a Spec-R S1 ($129).

Brian won with it in a fairly stout 15 car field at our local track.

It ain't the motor...
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Old 08-27-2013, 01:09 PM   #5063
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Nobody talks about tires, we all run the same tire and that is SPEC racing.
Motor rule is a different story, it aint spec if you have 3 choices but only from 1 brand.
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Old 08-27-2013, 01:46 PM   #5064
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There will always be some variance in electric motors. The question is whether the variances in the different Novak 25.5 motors makes that big of a difference on the track. In my experience, not really. Any differences can be compensated for by adjusting timing or gearing (or both).

Are there people who buy multiple Novak 25.5 motors looking for the best one, I don't doubt it. But my experience is that this is very much the exception in USVTA and I have yet to experience it where I race locally or even at big events. The fast guys are just better through the corners.

I've been to several of the biggest VTA races, and my car is always about the same speed as the guys finishing on the podium. Often my car is faster at the end of the straight, such as last year's Southern Nationals. The reason I didn't do better was my car just didn't get out of the corners as well. It wasn't the motor. It was the setup.

To be fair, I have used 3 different Novak 25.5 motors since the switch. The first one was converted from a 17.5. The second one was for a spare car. And the 3rd one was actually a replacement stator for the 1st motor that I dropped on a cement floor (doh). On all 3 motors I was just as fast on the straights as the guys on the podium (sometimes I am on the podium too).

I will close this post by saying this. I'm sure there are better cars, motors, batteries, and drivers running USVTA than me. But I have never felt that it has given them any advantage that I couldn't overcome by working on my setup or driving. I have never felt that I needed to buy an advantage to be competitive. This is why I enjoy running this class.
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Old 08-27-2013, 03:43 PM   #5065
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Originally Posted by IndyRC_Racer View Post
There will always be some variance in electric motors. The question is whether the variances in the different Novak 25.5 motors makes that big of a difference on the track. In my experience, not really. Any differences can be compensated for by adjusting timing or gearing (or both).

Are there people who buy multiple Novak 25.5 motors looking for the best one, I don't doubt it. But my experience is that this is very much the exception in USVTA and I have yet to experience it where I race locally or even at big events. The fast guys are just better through the corners.

I've been to several of the biggest VTA races, and my car is always about the same speed as the guys finishing on the podium. Often my car is faster at the end of the straight, such as last year's Southern Nationals. The reason I didn't do better was my car just didn't get out of the corners as well. It wasn't the motor. It was the setup.

To be fair, I have used 3 different Novak 25.5 motors since the switch. The first one was converted from a 17.5. The second one was for a spare car. And the 3rd one was actually a replacement stator for the 1st motor that I dropped on a cement floor (doh). On all 3 motors I was just as fast on the straights as the guys on the podium (sometimes I am on the podium too).

I will close this post by saying this. I'm sure there are better cars, motors, batteries, and drivers running USVTA than me. But I have never felt that it has given them any advantage that I couldn't overcome by working on my setup or driving. I have never felt that I needed to buy an advantage to be competitive. This is why I enjoy running this class.
Great observation

.....and in my opinion, Brian is in the top 12-15 of "regular" USVTA participants from the WI,IL,IN, and OH areas. If there is anyone whose advice should be strongly taken into consideration, it would be his as well as a few others.
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Old 08-27-2013, 04:13 PM   #5066
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I own 3 novak 25.5, all same lap time.
I have driven 18-20 different peoples cars each with a different novak motor, once I have them change their setup, same lap time as my car, within .2

I think the bodies have more difference than the motors I have seen

we did have one guy running an epoxy stator and the old high spec rotors, 1300+, they used to sell it was still only .3 faster on single fastest lap, than my car and I still won the race as I ran the whole race with max .2 variance per lap
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Old 08-27-2013, 05:52 PM   #5067
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Nobody talks about tires, we all run the same tire and that is SPEC racing.
Motor rule is a different story, it aint spec if you have 3 choices but only from 1 brand.
Sorry, i usually don't respond, but I had to add my 2

I can tell you first hand that it isn't the motor that makes you go fast. Back in April at the Scale National race, I had two different chassis that I used at practice for VTA. I used the same 5000 mah battery in both cars. Only difference is what is noted and slight set up changes.

#1 - TC3
25.5 SS
3.7 FDR
GTB

#2 - Tamiya TA05
Ballistic 25.5
3.85 FDR
Edge

The "fast" guys were turning 9.5-9.9 second laps. I ran both cars at practice, one right after the other. Even with two different set ups on the cars, I was only able to consistently turn 10.2-10.5 laps. I know i have to work on my set up.

It's not the motor, it's the set up and driver.

At least I know that in VTA, with the "SPEC" type racing, everyone is on the same playing field at the starting gate. There are no PED's in VTA, just practice and set up.

How many times did i say Set Up???
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Old 08-27-2013, 06:00 PM   #5068
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setup...
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Old 08-27-2013, 06:01 PM   #5069
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How many times did i say Set Up???
Six.

I need to work on this as well. Plus do exercises to promote better muscle memory for consistency. VRC anyone?
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Old 08-27-2013, 06:11 PM   #5070
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Sorry, i usually don't respond, but I had to add my 2
I can tell you first hand that it isn't the motor that makes you go fast ...
My point was that I remember a time when we all ran the same motor in vta just like we run the same tires, true SPEC racing. Now we have 3 to choose from, the rules are being changed to accommodate new motors from NOVAK. There was a time when vented endbells were legal, then they became illegal and now legal again ... all in what ?? 1 year If novak is working so closely with USVTA then why design a new motor for USVTA that does not comply with current rules

So its no wonder people are questioning why only novak, would be a lot better if we all ran the same motor, or open it up to all roar 25.5's, its been proven many times that there is no advatage to other brand motors or blinky esc's, a USVTA legal car always wins.

Thats my $0.02
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