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Old 05-14-2013, 04:43 PM   #4636
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Originally Posted by g12314 View Post
Nope, pretty much run the same amount in all the classes (VTA, USGT, 17.5) and across the 415, TA05, 416 platforms I use to run the various classes.

Of course, always adjusting to the track conditions in any of them (little more / little less).

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Old 05-14-2013, 04:51 PM   #4637
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Not bashing anyone I am just saying that when you see these cars run up against already known fast drivers and they lap the track and even the fast guys are like wtf.
I have seen my fair share of the "wtf" motors, and I have torn every one of them down at my track. I call them the "1%'s",were 5 deg of timing can add 5000 rpm's, eventually they blow up and they very seldom win, at least here that is.
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Old 05-15-2013, 02:39 AM   #4638
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I have seen my fair share of the "wtf" movies, and I have torn every one of them down at my track. I call them the "1%'s",were 5 deg of timing can add 5000 rpm's, eventually they blow up and they very seldom win, at least here that is.
everyone say its set up I say something smell like fish. car seem like either 21.5 or 17.5 with throttle turned down to 80%. Nobody whats to let the cat out the bag huh I understand. I figure someone would pu some better insight on this then to say its set up which will have some impact but notso much that you are like wtf is that.
There has to be something they are doing to the motors
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Old 05-15-2013, 04:25 AM   #4639
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everyone say its set up I say something smell like fish. car seem like either 21.5 or 17.5 with throttle turned down to 80%. Nobody whats to let the cat out the bag huh I understand. I figure someone would pu some better insight on this then to say its set up which will have some impact but notso much that you are like wtf is that.
There has to be something they are doing to the motors
How much faster is this persons lap times? At my local track the 21.5 USGT cars are about .5 to .8 faster then VTA cars. So is this person just really fast on the straight or are they putting 3 or 4 tenths on the field on a hot lap? At the USVTA scale Nationals during the hot lap TQ runs I ran a lap that was .2 faster then 2nd place and even more back to the rest of the field. My car was far from the fastest on the straight but the setup was darn near perfect. So yeah your setup will play a huge role.
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Old 05-15-2013, 08:31 AM   #4640
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If you are running Zippy or Gens Ace batts and the other guy is running Reedy, OHP or other top level VTA legal batts that is worth 1-2ths.

If the other guy is charging so his batts so they are at 4.22v when they hit the track and your are at 4.18v. That is worth time.

If you are running an old chassis and the other guys is running a new chassis that is worth time. I perfect TC4 will never be as fast as a perfect Xray T3/T4, Yokomo BD7, AE TC6.1, etc...

If you have dean connectors, a tangle of wires, slow servos, stuff mounted high on your chassis, tight belts, bad bearings, binding hinge pins, body rub on your tires and any other maint or setup problems these are worth huge time.

If your car is not steering and you have to use full lock everywhere you are scrubbing corner speed and loosing a lot of time.

The smoother your setup is and the better the corner speed the more gear/timing you can run without running into a heat issue. Fans on motors and your speedos help a lot...lets you carry more gear.

I am building a sedan for VTA racing in our state series and at club races. I am going to prep it and set it up just like a full tilt 17.5 sedan. The only difference will be a Novak Ballistic 25.5 and a HW Just Stock Speedo.

If your VTA is not this clean and tidy you are losing time (not mine just a nice clean car)
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Old 05-15-2013, 09:27 AM   #4641
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@BT - don't look at straightway top speed. That's, honestly, meaningless. Also, don't look at top end on the throttle end point - they could have the expo set so that the last few points of the end point is also meaningless. Everything you've talked about is arbitrary.

Look at what Adrian said - every single thing he said adds up.

When I started, with an HPI Pro3, I couldn't figure out why I was slower. I was "driving the same lines" with the "same motor" etc. etc. etc. Thankfully I started pitting with some veterans and started learning about MAINTENANCE. My times started dropping dramatically.

Soon I started looking at my car - what about it was holding me back. Well, it was a Pro3 - great for bashing, but not competitive with what was out back then. Got a TC3 and upgraded shocks and such and jumped an entire main.

THEN I learned to set it up properly - tweaking it, getting it to turn equally left/right, getting it to grip properly without gripping too much and shedding speed.

Notice I haven't even spoken about motors or electronics? That's because I used what those around me were using, with basic set ups - no significant changes ever. Better servo, but no significant changes otherwise. I got better.


IF they are cheating, ask for your track to tech them. Get your peers to insist upon it.

Don't be disappointed if they are not cheating.


Running Pan Cars - really, not much to cheat with there, and we DID tech each other, weight, motors, etc. - MarkA used to lap the field inside half a race and then comment on the race between 2-3. EVERY TIME.
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Old 05-15-2013, 09:29 AM   #4642
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I totally agree with what everyone is saying about prep, laptimes, setup, driving, etc., etc. Those are all pretty much ALWAYS way more important that outright top speed. But I've been where bigtee is coming from.

I've seen a VTA car that was SIGNIFICANTLY faster down the straight than every other car....even those of accomplished racers who know what they're doing. 10'-15' on the straight each lap is tough to compete with. Since that day I've been on a search (so have others in our club) to find out what could possibly make a USVTA legal 25.5 go that fast. We've all come up empty. Red stators, ceramic bearings, timing/gearing combinations....nothing's done it. In fact, one local racer even had Novak build a custom 25.5 using all optimized components just for the sake of curiosity. It still wasn't much faster than a stock motor, if at all. I'm not accusing anyone, but when one car has that much straightaway speed over all others in a spec class, it raises eyebrows. And it should. Are these merely 1% motors?
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Old 05-15-2013, 09:44 AM   #4643
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Man, I guess I am lucky at my local VTA track we run usvta rules but also a breakout time with it. It completely negates the "he is faster than me in the straight" argument. And make fo.some real close and fun racing.

On a different note,does anyone but me find it weird that HPI hasn't jumped in this with a chassis to run. I mean they already have the market cornered on bodies and tires, why not a car too? I run a Pro4 and its awesome for this class. Inexspesive, durable,and easy to maintain. Maybe they should bring i back like Associated did with the T4. Of course they would have to use fiberglass or composit instead if carbon fiber for a chassis, but that cound be an upgrade.
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Old 05-15-2013, 10:56 AM   #4644
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ceramic revolution bearings take off the rubber seal, clean out the grease, put A drop of syn-lube, leave the rubber seal off and run the open side on the inside of the hubs and the metal shield on the outsides, run the open side towards the diff and shield on outside

gets me 10ft on the straight every time, I only run this way for big races, club I run full shields

On the novak ballistic motors the timing stickers are not in all the same place, find a timing endbell with the sticker the most advanced.....

I also run one degree of rear toe per side in the hubs only and drive super smooth
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Old 05-15-2013, 11:50 AM   #4645
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I have never been able to drive a sedan in anger with less than 2.5deg rear toe...usually 3deg per side. Running 1deg per side is usually not worth it.
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Old 05-15-2013, 12:08 PM   #4646
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I have never been able to drive a sedan in anger with less than 2.5deg rear toe...usually 3deg per side. Running 1deg per side is usually not worth it.
I always run 0 degrees, and it works pretty well for me in VTA.
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Old 05-15-2013, 12:14 PM   #4647
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On the novak ballistic motors the timing stickers are not in all the same place, find a timing endbell with the sticker the most advanced.....
I believe this type of thing is the root of the problem that most are talking about. Yes racing is pricey, but this is over the top. Buying several motors, or even looking at dozens (where can you even do this, most hobby shops only have 2-3 on hand at any given time) at a time is cheating the spirit of USVTA. This class was meant to be a relatively inexpensive and fair class to race.

I enjoy the class at my local track because we all just have fun. I dont have to worry about tires or motor choice, just some suspention tuning. But I guess that some people just feel that money is no object when it comes to winning.
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Old 05-15-2013, 12:36 PM   #4648
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I believe this type of thing is the root of the problem that most are talking about. Yes racing is pricey, but this is over the top. Buying several motors, or even looking at dozens (where can you even do this, most hobby shops only have 2-3 on hand at any given time) at a time is cheating the spirit of USVTA. This class was meant to be a relatively inexpensive and fair class to race.

I enjoy the class at my local track because we all just have fun. I dont have to worry about tires or motor choice, just some suspention tuning. But I guess that some people just feel that money is no object when it comes to winning.
I agree, and I do not do this.
BUT I race against team drivers who have boxes of motors, and I know of one other guy who did buy alot of timing bells to find THE one..

Personally I think the timing should be carved into the metal not a sticker some loser will move
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Old 05-15-2013, 12:42 PM   #4649
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The timing is really not that big a deal. I have seen guys run less timing/more gear and be just as fast.
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Old 05-15-2013, 12:57 PM   #4650
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The timing is really not that big a deal. I have seen guys run less timing/more gear and be just as fast.
I agree. I've tried mild gearing/cranked timing and tall gearing/reduced timing and the difference is minimal and typically dictated by motor temps.

JayL, you really noticed that big a difference with the ceramic bearings (in the chassis) over standard bearings? I was debating this for my TC6, but most of what I read said it was more for longevity than outright speed. Your thoughts?
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