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Old 01-02-2013, 09:33 PM   #3586
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In the rear the shocks are in the furthest in hole on the tower and in the front they are in the center hole, I am running 5mm front ride height and 5.5mm rear ride height but to be honest I have yet to check the droop lol. As for tire prep I am running half in the front and all the rear tire with my additive.
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Old 01-02-2013, 10:01 PM   #3587
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marv View Post
Kevin, what do you do to compensate for the camber gain:
Adjust in the opposite direction?
Install stiffer springs to eliminate/reduce chassis roll?
Do nothing?

As per http://www.rctech.net/forum/11621077-post3570.html

Just changing the camber that little +1° in front and +1/2° in rear moved the wear from the outside edge to the inside edge... ????

Is this just the nature of the beast?


The car runs and handles great with either setting.


Thanks
marv,

Are you running the upper links in the C, D, or E positions? Changing the inner upper link position from C to E and resetting the Camber to your chosen setting will pull a lot of Camber gain out and will also slightly change the roll center of the car. On my XRAY T2R Pro, I installed the L link sets front and rear and added 4.9mm to the length of my upper links. This greatly improved the handling of the car (now handles more like a T3 than a T2). Now if I can just learn to stay off the boards maybe I can win a race.
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Old 01-02-2013, 10:06 PM   #3588
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for the guys discussing camber and camber gain, also keep in mind that more caster gives you more camber when you steer.. if you have zero degree caster blocks, you get no extra camber when you steer, but if you have six degree blocks, then you add camber when you steer.
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Old 01-02-2013, 11:19 PM   #3589
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marv View Post
Kevin, what do you do to compensate for the camber gain:
Adjust in the opposite direction?
Install stiffer springs to eliminate/reduce chassis roll?
Do nothing?

As per http://www.rctech.net/forum/11621077-post3570.html

Just changing the camber that little +1° in front and +1/2° in rear moved the wear from the outside edge to the inside edge... ????

Is this just the nature of the beast?


The car runs and handles great with either setting.


Thanks
Your camber gain is a result of your tie rod location on the inner part of the car and the outer part of the car. Generally the more inclined(meaning the outer location is higher then the inner location) your going to have camber gain as the suspension is compressed. As you can see in the picture below.



What you can do to change this depends on what adjustments your car allows you to make. If you have too much camber gain you can raise and or shorten(move the mounting location towards the outside of the chassis) your inner camber link location. Doing this will help with making adjustments to your camber gain.

General rule of thumb more camber gain ='s more traction at that end of the car with in reason.

Stiffer springs is only going to slow the rate at which the camber gain is applied its always going to be the same static amount no matter what springs you have on there as you are not changing the camber link.

Yeah sometimes a change in camber as its associated with camber gain will lead to you not wearing out the inside of your tires so much.

If you like the way your car is working then there really isnt any need to change anything unless you have a test day then you can try other settings so you can see what the changes do.
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Old 01-02-2013, 11:35 PM   #3590
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin K View Post
Stiffer springs is only going to slow the rate at which the camber gain is applied its always going to be the same static amount no matter what springs you have on there as you are not changing the camber link.
Stated differently:

The numerical, calculated "camber gain rate" (X degrees of camber gain per Y distance of suspension compression) is not affected by springs (heck, you could measure this value with no shocks even on the car); HOWEVER the stiffer spring will reduce total amount of roll that actually occurs in the corner. This will reduce the amount of suspension compression, which will in turn reduce the amount of actual camber gained. If you could freeze time and run out to the track and measure the car, you'd see it's rolled less and has gained less camber.
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Old 01-02-2013, 11:46 PM   #3591
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Does anyone sale pre-glued or ready to run VTA tires? I can't glue tires to save my life. I can however glue my fingers to the tires, or to each other, but I can't glue a tire to a rim.

Thanks,

Jim
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Old 01-03-2013, 12:26 AM   #3592
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Frahm View Post
Does anyone sale pre-glued or ready to run VTA tires? I can't glue tires to save my life. I can however glue my fingers to the tires, or to each other, but I can't glue a tire to a rim.

Thanks,

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Welcome to the only problem with VTA racing !!!
Wish HPI would make premounts for VTA.....
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Old 01-03-2013, 05:20 AM   #3593
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I bought a set of new pre-glued VTA tires off ebay last year that came from one of the HPI RTR 69 Camaro cars. The gluing was flawless. Sidewalls glued too. I keep them for a display set they are so perfect. I assumed that you could buy them pre-glued from the HPI RTR parts list? Maybe not?

http://www.hpiracing.com/kitinfo/106130/
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Old 01-03-2013, 05:31 AM   #3594
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Well, I guess not. This is a link to the manual/parts and they only show the X-Patterns as coming pre-mounted.

http://www.hpiracing.com/graphics/in...130/106130.pdf

Apparently, the only way to get the Vintage pre-mounts is to buy the RTR package. They are missing a sales opportunity for sure. Strange.
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Old 01-03-2013, 05:46 AM   #3595
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GP40X View Post
marv,

Are you running the upper links in the C, D, or E positions? Changing the inner upper link position from C to E and resetting the Camber to your chosen setting will pull a lot of Camber gain out and will also slightly change the roll center of the car. On my XRAY T2R Pro, I installed the L link sets front and rear and added 4.9mm to the length of my upper links. This greatly improved the handling of the car (now handles more like a T3 than a T2). Now if I can just learn to stay off the boards maybe I can win a race.
Position C front & rear
Outer most hole on the rear hubs

Everything GREEN or with a RED check mark = OEM/What I'm running currently

Front = C
Rear = C2




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Old 01-03-2013, 06:04 AM   #3596
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GP40X View Post
marv,
Are you running the upper links in the C, D, or E positions? Changing the inner upper link position from C to E and resetting the Camber to your chosen setting will pull a lot of Camber gain out and will also slightly change the roll center of the car. On my XRAY T2R Pro, I installed the L link sets front and rear and added 4.9mm to the length of my upper links. This greatly improved the handling of the car (now handles more like a T3 than a T2). Now if I can just learn to stay off the boards maybe I can win a race.
Quote:
Originally Posted by slashdriver View Post
Stated differently:
The numerical, calculated "camber gain rate" (X degrees of camber gain per Y distance of suspension compression) is not affected by springs (heck, you could measure this value with no shocks even on the car); HOWEVER the stiffer spring will reduce total amount of roll that actually occurs in the corner. This will reduce the amount of suspension compression, which will in turn reduce the amount of actual camber gained. If you could freeze time and run out to the track and measure the car, you'd see it's rolled less and has gained less camber.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin K View Post
Your camber gain is a result of your tie rod location on the inner part of the car and the outer part of the car. Generally the more inclined(meaning the outer location is higher then the inner location) your going to have camber gain as the suspension is compressed. As you can see in the picture below.



What you can do to change this depends on what adjustments your car allows you to make. If you have too much camber gain you can raise and or shorten(move the mounting location towards the outside of the chassis) your inner camber link location. Doing this will help with making adjustments to your camber gain.

General rule of thumb more camber gain ='s more traction at that end of the car with in reason.

Stiffer springs is only going to slow the rate at which the camber gain is applied its always going to be the same static amount no matter what springs you have on there as you are not changing the camber link.

Yeah sometimes a change in camber as its associated with camber gain will lead to you not wearing out the inside of your tires so much.

If you like the way your car is working then there really isnt any need to change anything unless you have a test day then you can try other settings so you can see what the changes do.
Thanks!

It's starting to make sense now.

Please define tie rod?

I see this:
Ackerman (center link) rod
Toe adjustment (TIE) rods
Camber links / one for each wheel

My left my bell crank has two holes for the toe (tie) adjustment rod = 1 inner & 1 outer - as does my servo saver/right bell crank

Each front axle hub has 2 holes, 1 inner & 1 outer (for the toe - tie - rods)

Am I on the same page yet?

Once I get my shocks rebuilt & back on I'll be able to do a hands-on self demo.

Thanks much guys!!!



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Old 01-03-2013, 09:05 AM   #3597
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Shocks are on -

Yes, I see the 'gain' in the front & rear as I push down on the towers.

Got it!

THANKS!!!

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Old 01-03-2013, 09:55 AM   #3598
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Three View Post
Welcome to the only problem with VTA racing !!!
Wish HPI would make premounts for VTA.....

Is there anyone in here that wants to make some extra money and is good at gluing up tires? I'd be willing to pay someone to do it.

Jim
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Old 01-03-2013, 09:59 AM   #3599
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I'm lucky to get my own tires glued well or I'd offer. I bet there's someone at your local track that would be willing to help.

Speaking of tires/wheels, did you guys see this guy trying to get Vintage steel looking wheels made? I applaud him for his efforts. Wonder if he will get it off the ground? He's looking for pledges so that he can put them into production.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/...scale-steelies

Of course they'd have to be USVTA approved, but for scale buffs, they sure are cool!
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Old 01-03-2013, 10:05 AM   #3600
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Those are cool. Need little chrome hubcaps that we can knock off when we hit the walls. It'll be like a car chase from "Bullitt" or a Dirty Harry movie!
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