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Old 12-17-2012, 03:12 PM   #3331
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Adding glue to the outside sidewalls of the tires is used with EVERY form of RC cars Carpet racing. There are no rules to prevent this or stop this at any ROAR or IFMAR race why is this an issue for some of you VTA guys? This is a fairly common thing done I dont see there being any issue with this what so ever. If you are taking issue with this then there really will never be a set of rules that will make you happy and you are just looking for something to complain about on the internet.
it doesnt matter if its used in every form of racing, is it not altering the tire? simple yes or no answer will suffice
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Old 12-17-2012, 03:45 PM   #3332
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I think it comes down to there being things that sanctioning bodies would rather not see people do, but since it would be impossible to enforce, there is no sense having an unenforceable rule.

For example, you could have a no traction compound rule, but are you then not going to allow people to clean their tires? And if they are allowed to clean them, is there a way to control what they use and when? What is the difference between a compound and cleaning them with an unknown compound?

Same goes for Jonesy's example of sloppy gluing above.
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Old 12-17-2012, 03:55 PM   #3333
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it doesnt matter if its used in every form of racing, is it not altering the tire? simple yes or no answer will suffice
No.. just like traction compound is used to increase grip, ca glue has been used to reduce grip on the sidewalls. Not altering the tire just the amount of grip. It has even been a suggestion for "The Track at Harbor Hobbies" by RobK when we have attended the USVTA nats. If Myron and Kevin are also suggesting it there isn't a need to argue.. it is legal.
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Old 12-17-2012, 04:09 PM   #3334
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No.. just like traction compound is used to increase grip, ca glue has been used to reduce grip on the sidewalls. Not altering the tire just the amount of grip. It has even been a suggestion for "The Track at Harbor Hobbies" by RobK when we have attended the USVTA nats. If Myron and Kevin are also suggesting it there isn't a need to argue.. it is legal.
traction compound is used to "alter" the tire by making it softer. but it says in the rules its allowed per track discretion. and NO OTHER altering, changing or softening of the tire is allowed. Thats straight from the rules, so you can try to twist it however u want but it says what it says, plain and simple
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Old 12-17-2012, 04:23 PM   #3335
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I really appreciate those of you who help when asked.

Now here's the situation for a few of you other guys. Young kid scrapes up enough money to get a VTA car, this the first his car he's ever owned. A few guys at the track give parts, help and time to get him up and going. The car is set up with a basic setup. He runs the car for 2 weeks learning how to drive. As he gets better the car is traction rolling.

So i guess we could try less than $1.00 worth of ca glue to see if that helps him ? Or tell him he needs to buy NEW tires,more parts (sway bars, oil, etc) and maybe just push him right out of the hobby...because were not sure about CA glue being legal ?

I read most of these post and see new or unexperienced guys needing help/advice with a few guys giving advice and others , well i'm not sure what's going on there.

Again thanks Kevin,Myron and others who give advice/suggestions when needed.

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Old 12-17-2012, 04:28 PM   #3336
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hey Robk, did you race this past weekend?...I didnt...I went to a wedding and saw my uncle tie the knot after 60 years of being single...lol..we tried to talk him out of it, but he doesnt want to die alone...BTW...they waiting on your input...tick tock

Hey Eric, April 2013?...SWEEEEET...Novak presents...cool...oh, for the Nationals, I was wondering if I could reserve a pitspot...

Hey Jonesy, I got your text...OMG...thats all I have right now..

The 2013 US VTA+ Southern Nationals in Music City, USA...you can glue your sidewalls...thats official for this event
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Old 12-17-2012, 04:31 PM   #3337
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Of course it's altering the tire. It's one of those "it's something we've always done and has always been legal and isn't written anywhere" type rules.

As someone who is new to racing it's exactly this type of "unwritten rule" that drives me crazy. We're told "use common sense." To me common sense says that putting glue on the outside of the tire is altering the tire and by the written rules is illegal. Since it's not specifically called out and is, at minimum, an alternate way of tuning traction roll out of a chassis I'd consider it to be against the "Spirit of VTA." I just searched the ROAR PDF and putting glue on the outside of tires isn't specifically allowed or prohibited in those rules either. It's a "because we always have allowed it" rule there too.

I've been RC racing for less than 2 years. I've never been to a ROAR or IFMAR race. Until a few minutes ago I didn't have a clue whether or not other organizations consider this legal or illegal. I'd heard about doing this, but always assumed it was one of those "allowed at club races where it doesn't matter but wouldn't be allowed at a 'real' race" situations. Lots of things happen at club races that aren't legal because it doesn't matter -- someone cuts the post holes wrong and ends up cutting away half of the car to get the wheels to stop rubbing for example -- but that doesn't make them legal either.

When someone asks an intelligent question and gets an answer of "O M G" from one of the major class proponents that makes the class look far worse, IMHO, than the question being asked in the first place.

From a straight up, common sense point of view:
I've got a performance problem, I traction roll.
I make a change, I glue the outside of the tires.
Performance problem solved.
But, to solve the problem, I altered the tire in a way that, using only information written in the rules, *should* be illegal. I altered the tire in a way that has an effect on it's performance -- the sidewall is stiffer and when I do roll onto the sidewall the glue makes that portion of the tire have much less traction. In this case you aren't softening the rubber (illegal and actually written in the rules) you're putting a hard coating over it. I'm sure someone will say that it's not a performance advantage because adding glue to the sidewall doesn't make you car any faster. But we all know that getting through a corner, even at a slightly lower speed, is better than rolling and waiting on a marshall.

Don't say "use common sense" and when we do then say "but that's always been legal." Common sense says putting glue on the outside of the tire does effect performance and should be illegal. If altering the tire is illegal then the rules are fine as written. If there are ways to alter the tire are legal than the specific alterations need to be put in the rules.

These questions are a good thing. They indicate interest in the class. The day there are no new questions in this thread it won't indicate that everyone is satisfied with the rules. It'll indicate that the class is dead and no one cares. If rules stop needing clarification it means no one is pushing the rules. Pushing the rules is part of racing. Rules have to evolve as the class evolves. Give an official answer, update the rules and wait for the next question.
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Old 12-17-2012, 04:36 PM   #3338
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Almost ready woohoo very excited.
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Old 12-17-2012, 04:48 PM   #3339
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my OMG comment was directed to Jonesy...not to the question...as directed...

but anyway...as far as all of the comments about gluing the sidewalls...out of 100 ppl, 50 will say yes, and 50 will say no....I think all of you have a point and it really comes down to how you see it..I would think it would be an issues if it was some secret that nobody knew about...but as stated...several racers know this method, and even use it in other classes...

but to look at it and say thats illegal...FYI...how many of you that race VTA have done this , and how many havent?....

I have and havent...50/50 maybe

next
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Old 12-17-2012, 05:03 PM   #3340
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I've never meet someone who hasn't glued the sidewalls.
I always have, and have never been questioned about it.
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Old 12-17-2012, 05:04 PM   #3341
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Has a date been set for vta nats at the track at harbor hobby yet? I must have missed it
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Old 12-17-2012, 05:31 PM   #3342
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I can honestly say i have never glued my sidewalls. Never really thought about it. It would be a clever way to resolve traction rolling issues though.
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Old 12-17-2012, 05:39 PM   #3343
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Originally Posted by savageboy69 View Post
it doesnt matter if its used in every form of racing, is it not altering the tire? simple yes or no answer will suffice
No your not altering the tire if you think this is altering the tire then using traction compound is also altering the tire. This isnt the case it just something done thats a tuning aid and its not seen as altering the tire. If you race a ROAR carpet nats or a race that enforces all the ROAR rules you will still see people adding CA to the sidewalls in all classes and no one is complaining saying that its altering the tire. Again I really fail to see why this is an issue for VTA?
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Old 12-17-2012, 05:41 PM   #3344
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Has a date been set for vta nats at the track at harbor hobby yet? I must have missed it
Eric is working out the dates but it looks like sometime in April and Novak looks to be headlining this years race. As every year this isnt one you want to miss....
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Old 12-17-2012, 05:56 PM   #3345
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Where is Harbor Hobby?

Nevermind... I googled it. Who woulda thunk it.

Hey, if you're that close to Wisconsin, you're not that far from the World Famous Brat Stop.

Last edited by .crispy; 12-17-2012 at 06:08 PM.
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