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Old 10-24-2012, 06:01 PM   #2281
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just to remind you USVTA racers that race VTA and want to come to a USVTA event, that the Hotshot crew in Georgia is hosting the ....

***2012 G.O.R.C. Presented By HotShotRC***


Hello everyone, we at Hot Shot RC are proud to present the 2012 Georgia On Road Championship, G.O.R.C., Saturday November 3rd!

We already have several sponsors lined up including, BOCA Bearings, Solaris Tires, & SXT Traction Compounds.

Classes will include USVTA, USGT, F1 21.5, TC 17.5 Sportman, 1/12 13.5 Spec.

We will be post registration on RCSignup soon, as well as the race schedule & rules, plus more details on the event.
Please feel free to post any questions for the event here on this thread.
So everyone, lets get those race cars together and ready to race!


***2012 G.O.R.C. Presented By HotShotRC***
Why do all the good VTA races have to be sooooo far from Florida
Man is my wife gonna want to kill me again lol
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Old 10-24-2012, 06:11 PM   #2282
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its going to be a good show....alot of good competition in all classes...but VTA will be the tightest class with alot of top guys going for the championship

This is your chance to race against me as well...come on its ATL...plenty to do
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Old 10-24-2012, 06:32 PM   #2283
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Originally Posted by DLS II View Post
A RWD car can be built-unfortunately not legal. See post # 788. Don
Yep, that's a nice car, and exactly the type of thing I'm talking about. It's a lot like a Dual Sport. And it obviously has no real advantage over a 4WD.
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Old 10-24-2012, 07:31 PM   #2284
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Originally Posted by DARKSIDE View Post
its going to be a good show....alot of good competition in all classes...but VTA will be the tightest class with alot of top guys going for the championship

This is your chance to race against me as well...come on its ATL...plenty to do
Ohhh man is this going to cost me big time
I'm braking the news to the wife tomorrow over dinner boys wish me luck
Roflmao
Might have to get a bottle of GOOD wine for this one
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Old 10-24-2012, 07:49 PM   #2285
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Patron makes a nice white wine that could help in persuasion
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Old 10-24-2012, 08:14 PM   #2286
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Originally Posted by 303slowdown View Post
I thought the only thing that could be done to the tires was sand the mold seem, not sand the tire or soak the tires over night in bags. Doesnt all the "breaking in tricks" go against the spirit of the class? Maybe im taking that rule to seriously ..
Yes you are. Our track only allows Black Can Paragon Ground Effects. Soaking the tires in a bag overnight helps to get the mold release off and soften the rubber comparable to a set of tires that have about 8 to 10 runs on them. This just accelerates the break in process some to get the tires more consistent sooner.
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Old 10-24-2012, 08:19 PM   #2287
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Originally Posted by rcpaintinpete View Post
Ohhh man is this going to cost me big time
I'm braking the news to the wife tomorrow over dinner boys wish me luck
Roflmao
Might have to get a bottle of GOOD wine for this one
You got this one peter! Play it smooth.lol
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Old 10-24-2012, 08:20 PM   #2288
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A few final thoughts about tires...

I posted (and others) some tire prep techniques in case people were not aware of them. All of my tips are inexpensive and the supplies can be purchased at any Walmart for less $10. Also items like sand paper and adhesive removers (Goo Gone) can also be used on other projects around the house.

I will acknowledge some may feel using chemicals to clean tires before racing may go against the "spirit" of the class. As far as how I use sand paper, I am basically just "cleaning" the tire. I will try to post a before/after picture of this process the next time I mount a new tire. Again some might feel this is against the "spirit" of the rules, which is understandable.

However, one tip I posted is free and can be used by anyone. Find a patch of rough concrete sidewalk or concrete pavement and do a short-burnout to scuff the tires. At one indoor carpet track I race at (that allows Paragon), if you don't scuff the tires you will basically be driving a drift car until the tires break-in (which could take several rounds even applying Paragon liberally). We use the sidewalk scuff (on new tires) to ensure that everyone is able to have a driveable car and have a good day at the track. Again this is on a carpet track. This step wouldn't be necessary on prepared pavement tracks as those are normally abrasive enough on their own to remove the glaze/shine from new tires after a few laps (and is basically the same as scuffing tires on a concrete patch).

----------

I do have one more mounting tip which is similar to what Darkside does. When I mount the tires to the wheels I make sure the tire is seated properly into the channel in the wheel. I do this by rolling the tire on a hard surface (table) with my hands until I feel the tire is fully seated and even around the entire wheel. While performing this step, I also make sure the foam is seated evenly inside the tire.
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Old 10-24-2012, 08:34 PM   #2289
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Originally Posted by IndyRC_Racer View Post

I do have one more mounting tip which is similar to what Darkside does. When I mount the tires to the wheels I make sure the tire is seated properly into the channel in the wheel. I do this by rolling the tire on a hard surface (table) with my hands until I feel the tire is fully seated and even around the entire wheel. While performing this step, I also make sure the foam is seated evenly inside the tire.
I do that same thing as well. I also put rubber bands on the tires before I glue them and leave them on a few min after done gluing to make sure the bead is firmly in the channel while glue sets up. Not sure it does much with these but something I learned with 1/8th scale buggy.
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Old 10-24-2012, 09:23 PM   #2290
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Originally Posted by rcpaintinpete View Post
Ohhh man is this going to cost me big time
I'm braking the news to the wife tomorrow over dinner boys wish me luck
Roflmao
Might have to get a bottle of GOOD wine for this one
nothing wrong with a little begging and pleading...on bended knee always works...and the credit card...lol
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Old 10-25-2012, 05:37 AM   #2291
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Radio Active, it is a DS. I made the chassis of 3mm G10. The rear end was flipped 180 degrees. It runs good on a surface with reasonable traction. Don
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Old 10-25-2012, 08:50 AM   #2292
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IndyRC_Racer View Post
Here is a brief history of the USVTA class (as I've experienced it- feel free to correct)

Originally VTA started out as a class where racers could use an old 4wd TC chassis that was no longer competitive in the current classes. Some of these racers also raced 1/12 scale classes, so they wanted to use their existing equipment (4-cell NiCad/NiHM batteries & brushed motors). They discovered that the 4-cell/27turn brushed motor combo & 4-cell/17t brushless combo was a good speed for door to door racing with the HPI bodies and VTA tires. At this point speed controls were open and all was good.

However, as the class was starting to grow the end was near for the 4-cell "round" NiCad/NiHM batteries and 2-cell Lipo/21.5 motors were introduced to VTA. Initial testing on some tracks proved that all 3 battery/motor combos were competitive. Eventually as more people improved their VTA setups and discovered how to best gear the 21.5 motor, it was apparent the lipo/21.5 combo was a bit faster but still good for side by side racing . Eventually the 4-cell/27t & 17.5 options were phased out. At this point there were no boosted speed controls or motors with massive timing adjustments so all was good.

Next we enter the speed control "wars". When LRP introduced the SPX, it had a profile that increased boost at full throttle. Even on small tracks the LRP appeared to have an overdrive gear - and did have an advantage. Then Tekin introduced their RS speed control with computer adjustable timing and free firmware updates. We now had a situation where racers with fixed timing speed controls were at a disadvantage. The other result was speeds of cars on a long straight were significantly different - which created poor racing. All was not good.

We now enter the era of lipo/21.5 open speed controls but limited profiles. Initially this was a good fix. The people with more advanced speed controls were required to use profiles/settings that were equal to the older/fixed timing speed controls. Unfortunately since most tracks assume racers will honor the rules without tech and some racers are not honorable, there was cheating going on. Additionally, at large events tech in VTA became difficult as volunteers were required to know how to determine if different brands of speed controls were in the legal mode (This was before the current ROAR "blinky" rules). A class that should have been simple was getting overly complicated. All was not good.

Now we enter the current era of VTA. USVTA outlawed the speed controls that were giving racers an advantage. They also switched to the Novak 25.5 motor (no other 25.5 was available at this time) which slowed the class down to a speed that was more in line with the original intent of the class. The racing on the track was better and most racers were please with the results of the changes. All was good again.

----------

The end result is that USVTA has evolved into a class were any TC chassis built in the past 10 years can be competitive. We are running the same tires/bodies since the class started (no control tires needed for big races). 5000 Mah limit means previous year's batteries are still competitive with the latest/greatest. Single motor manufacturer eliminates the need to buy additional equipment to be competitive.

In the end VTA rules may not suit the needs of some racers. However the intent of the rules was to create a specific racing experience that many racers do enjoy. If there are new ways to enhance that experience, the people responsible for the rules have gladly added those options.
Thank you for giving us 'Newbies' some insight on how VTA evolved. After reading this history I have to say that USVTA is currently in its 'Golden Age'.
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Old 10-25-2012, 12:07 PM   #2293
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Congratulations. You figured me out.
Wasn't very hard!!!:
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Old 10-25-2012, 12:59 PM   #2294
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IndyRC_Racer View Post
Here is a brief history of the USVTA class (as I've experienced it- feel free to correct)

Originally VTA started out as a class where racers could use an old 4wd TC chassis that was no longer competitive in the current classes. Some of these racers also raced 1/12 scale classes, so they wanted to use their existing equipment (4-cell NiCad/NiHM batteries & brushed motors). They discovered that the 4-cell/27turn brushed motor combo & 4-cell/17t brushless combo was a good speed for door to door racing with the HPI bodies and VTA tires. At this point speed controls were open and all was good.

However, as the class was starting to grow the end was near for the 4-cell "round" NiCad/NiHM batteries and 2-cell Lipo/21.5 motors were introduced to VTA. Initial testing on some tracks proved that all 3 battery/motor combos were competitive. Eventually as more people improved their VTA setups and discovered how to best gear the 21.5 motor, it was apparent the lipo/21.5 combo was a bit faster but still good for side by side racing . Eventually the 4-cell/27t & 17.5 options were phased out. At this point there were no boosted speed controls or motors with massive timing adjustments so all was good.
Next we enter the speed control "wars". When LRP introduced the SPX, it had a profile that increased boost at full throttle. Even on small tracks the LRP appeared to have an overdrive gear - and did have an advantage. Then Tekin introduced their RS speed control with computer adjustable timing and free firmware updates. We now had a situation where racers with fixed timing speed controls were at a disadvantage. The other result was speeds of cars on a long straight were significantly different - which created poor racing. All was not good.

We now enter the era of lipo/21.5 open speed controls but limited profiles. Initially this was a good fix. The people with more advanced speed controls were required to use profiles/settings that were equal to the older/fixed timing speed controls. Unfortunately since most tracks assume racers will honor the rules without tech and some racers are not honorable, there was cheating going on. Additionally, at large events tech in VTA became difficult as volunteers were required to know how to determine if different brands of speed controls were in the legal mode (This was before the current ROAR "blinky" rules). A class that should have been simple was getting overly complicated. All was not good.

Now we enter the current era of VTA. USVTA outlawed the speed controls that were giving racers an advantage. They also switched to the Novak 25.5 motor (no other 25.5 was available at this time) which slowed the class down to a speed that was more in line with the original intent of the class. The racing on the track was better and most racers were please with the results of the changes. All was good again.

----------

The end result is that USVTA has evolved into a class were any TC chassis built in the past 10 years can be competitive. We are running the same tires/bodies since the class started (no control tires needed for big races). 5000 Mah limit means previous year's batteries are still competitive with the latest/greatest. Single motor manufacturer eliminates the need to buy additional equipment to be competitive.

In the end VTA rules may not suit the needs of some racers. However the intent of the rules was to create a specific racing experience that many racers do enjoy. If there are new ways to enhance that experience, the people responsible for the rules have gladly added those options.
Didn't the 21.5 option come on at the same time as the 4cell/17.5?

I think the switch to 25.5 came with the phasing out of the other power options. That was in 2010 and Robk had not had the reigns from Doug for very long. He alerted us to the rule change almost a year in advance. It was a brave bold move for him and I still commend him for the guts it took and the grief that he got for it. Everything you have stated did happen. Its just the why and when that I am not absolute about.
Thanks for writing this detailed description. I was just too lazy to go that far into detail.
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Old 10-25-2012, 01:30 PM   #2295
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I have found over the years that went I go to events, I spend money and even track my purchases on a little sheet of paper in my wallet. I try to eat cheap and sleep cheap. Then, I get home, look at the credit card bill a month later and find out my wife was out SHOPPING while I was gone to the event and usually has spent far more than I ever thought about...with NO permission!

Morale of the Story. Go to the damn event and enjoy yourself!



(I've been married to the same woman for 28 years, and I approve this message.)
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