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Old 10-24-2012, 09:29 AM   #2266
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The subject of VTA tire prep has been discussed recently in the thread. I didn't really notice anyone explaining why individuals took the time to "break-in" their new VTA tires.

It has been discussed in previous posts that brand new VTA tires seem to have some type of shine/glaze on the surface of the tread. The speculation has been that this is a result of the molding process - possiblly residue from a mold release chemical or compound. It is not necessary to remove the shine/glaze or "scuff" VTA tires. However, most racers have found that by removing the glaze/shine that the new tires perform more consistently on their first few runs.

There are various ways to remove this thin layer from the tires. The easiest way to scuff the tires is to find a rough concrete sidewalk (or cinder block), place your car on the surface & hold it stationary, and then give the car full throttle. Basically you are performing a burn-out. You only need to scuff the tires until the glaze/shine is gone, which should take less than a minute. At this point you would perform any normal pre-race tire prep that is allowed at your local track.

Other methods that I've used to remove the glaze/shine from VTA tires have included lightly sanding with fine grit paper or using adhesive remover (Goo Gone or Goof Off). I only spend a couple minutes per tire when using these methods. I also don't worry about removing the mold seam. Other racers I've talked with have used citrus based products or Simple Green to perform this process. Just remember to be careful when using any chemical to clean or prep r/c tires.

Again the purpose of VTA tire scuffing is to simply remove the thin layer of glaze/shine that appears to be a side-effect of the molding process. Depending on track surface/grip level this step may not be necessary.

Feel free to add or correct any info I have posted, but I hope this info is helpful.
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Old 10-24-2012, 09:36 AM   #2267
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I just clean mine with soap and water then run normal tire prep for racing work for me every time
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Old 10-24-2012, 10:51 AM   #2268
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Additional VTA tire info

(note: in this post inside refers to the side of the tire closest to the chassis and outside refers to the side of the tire furthest from the chassis)

One of the unique things about HPI Vintage wheels/tires is that they have a a thinner inside sidewall and a larger outside sidewall. One of the results of having different sidewalls is that when first mounted, the tires will have built in negative camber. Or to put it another way the diameter of the outside edge of the tire will be smaller than the diameter of the inside edge of the tire.

Because of the "built-in" camber of new VTA tires, you may need to adjust the settings on your camber links to achieve an optimal tire contact patch with the track surface. If you are using a camber gauge on a car with new VTA tires, you can notice that at zero degrees camber there will still be an air gap between the outside edge of the tire and the surface the car is sitting on (negative camber).

The reason I'm pointing this out is that I've seen racers switch from older/broken-in tires to new tires and have watched the handling on their cars change. I used to believe that this was caused by new tires not being broken in (which to a small degree can be). However, after noticing the difference in static camber of new tires vs. older/broken-in tires it was obvious that the camber change was affecting the handling.

I wanted to post this information in case any new/existing VTA racers have not noticed this before. It would be important to note if you are copying another racer's setup to check if they were running new or older/broken-in tires before using their camber settings. It is also important to note if you are using a setup station to setup the camber on your car.

Even though the HPI Vintage Tires are unique (when compared to typical 1/10 rubber TC tires), there is no reason why they won't perform well. Just remember to keep an eye on your tires and how they are wearing/breaking-in. You may have to adjust your camber settings to get the best performance (and life) out of your VTA tires.

In the end, VTA tires are a great value. For average club racing on carpet, you should be able to get at least 3-4 months of racing on 1 set (racing once a week). At large events I've seen new, used, and somewhere in between tires being run in the A-main heats. Compared to other rubber touring car tires (where you need a new set to be competitive), I'm glad to run a tire in VTA that has great longevity and performance.
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Old 10-24-2012, 12:09 PM   #2269
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The tire thing must differ by track.
We don't allow tire sauce and a brand new set works the same until the tread wears out and starts to look like a slick, at my track

I just mount and run brand new tires without doing anything and still tie my fast lap times
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Old 10-24-2012, 12:15 PM   #2270
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Here is a brief history of the USVTA class (as I've experienced it- feel free to correct)

Originally VTA started out as a class where racers could use an old 4wd TC chassis that was no longer competitive in the current classes. Some of these racers also raced 1/12 scale classes, so they wanted to use their existing equipment (4-cell NiCad/NiHM batteries & brushed motors). They discovered that the 4-cell/27turn brushed motor combo & 4-cell/17t brushless combo was a good speed for door to door racing with the HPI bodies and VTA tires. At this point speed controls were open and all was good.

However, as the class was starting to grow the end was near for the 4-cell "round" NiCad/NiHM batteries and 2-cell Lipo/21.5 motors were introduced to VTA. Initial testing on some tracks proved that all 3 battery/motor combos were competitive. Eventually as more people improved their VTA setups and discovered how to best gear the 21.5 motor, it was apparent the lipo/21.5 combo was a bit faster but still good for side by side racing . Eventually the 4-cell/27t & 17.5 options were phased out. At this point there were no boosted speed controls or motors with massive timing adjustments so all was good.

Next we enter the speed control "wars". When LRP introduced the SPX, it had a profile that increased boost at full throttle. Even on small tracks the LRP appeared to have an overdrive gear - and did have an advantage. Then Tekin introduced their RS speed control with computer adjustable timing and free firmware updates. We now had a situation where racers with fixed timing speed controls were at a disadvantage. The other result was speeds of cars on a long straight were significantly different - which created poor racing. All was not good.

We now enter the era of lipo/21.5 open speed controls but limited profiles. Initially this was a good fix. The people with more advanced speed controls were required to use profiles/settings that were equal to the older/fixed timing speed controls. Unfortunately since most tracks assume racers will honor the rules without tech and some racers are not honorable, there was cheating going on. Additionally, at large events tech in VTA became difficult as volunteers were required to know how to determine if different brands of speed controls were in the legal mode (This was before the current ROAR "blinky" rules). A class that should have been simple was getting overly complicated. All was not good.

Now we enter the current era of VTA. USVTA outlawed the speed controls that were giving racers an advantage. They also switched to the Novak 25.5 motor (no other 25.5 was available at this time) which slowed the class down to a speed that was more in line with the original intent of the class. The racing on the track was better and most racers were please with the results of the changes. All was good again.

----------

The end result is that USVTA has evolved into a class were any TC chassis built in the past 10 years can be competitive. We are running the same tires/bodies since the class started (no control tires needed for big races). 5000 Mah limit means previous year's batteries are still competitive with the latest/greatest. Single motor manufacturer eliminates the need to buy additional equipment to be competitive.

In the end VTA rules may not suit the needs of some racers. However the intent of the rules was to create a specific racing experience that many racers do enjoy. If there are new ways to enhance that experience, the people responsible for the rules have gladly added those options.
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Old 10-24-2012, 12:24 PM   #2271
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayL View Post
The tire thing must differ by track.
We don't allow tire sauce and a brand new set works the same until the tread wears out and starts to look like a slick, at my track

I just mount and run brand new tires without doing anything and still tie my fast lap times
What type of surface are you racing on?

- My experience is that on carpet tracks that have low/medium traction that scuffing the tires will improve the initial performance of the tires. (traction compounds allowed)
- My experience on carpet tracks that have high bite that little to no tire prep is needed. (traction compounds allowed)
- My experience on outdoor asphalt tracks is that broken-in tires (but not bald) tires work better (track prep with soda/traction compounds allowed)

If I were to race at any track that did not allow traction compound, I would have to adjust my VTA car to have more mechanical grip. However, like you have stated the tires should work fine once you set your car up for your specific track conditions.
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Old 10-24-2012, 03:44 PM   #2272
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I must say that I have never dischargered my Lipo batteries. I was told when I bought them not to Dump them or they would be damaged. So if they can be discharged then what do I need to Do Not DO.
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Old 10-24-2012, 04:31 PM   #2273
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I use the discharge function on my charger. My old one would only discharge at 1amp, took forever! Now I got a new HiTec 400w x2 charger that has up to 5amp discharge. After I get home from a race I set it to discharge to 6v, wait 5 minutes, then start the storage charge at 7-8amp. I will be changing my battery maitenance routine to the way that Eric ( EAMotorsports ) explained earlier in this thread because 1;He knows more than me. and 2;They are his brand batteries
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Old 10-24-2012, 04:50 PM   #2274
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IndyRC_Racer View Post
Here is a brief history of the USVTA class (as I've experienced it- feel free to correct)

Originally VTA started out as a class where racers could use an old 4wd TC chassis that was no longer competitive in the current classes. Some of these racers also raced 1/12 scale classes, so they wanted to use their existing equipment (4-cell NiCad/NiHM batteries & brushed motors). They discovered that the 4-cell/27turn brushed motor combo & 4-cell/17t brushless combo was a good speed for door to door racing with the HPI bodies and VTA tires. At this point speed controls were open and all was good.

However, as the class was starting to grow the end was near for the 4-cell "round" NiCad/NiHM batteries and 2-cell Lipo/21.5 motors were introduced to VTA. Initial testing on some tracks proved that all 3 battery/motor combos were competitive. Eventually as more people improved their VTA setups and discovered how to best gear the 21.5 motor, it was apparent the lipo/21.5 combo was a bit faster but still good for side by side racing . Eventually the 4-cell/27t & 17.5 options were phased out. At this point there were no boosted speed controls or motors with massive timing adjustments so all was good.

Next we enter the speed control "wars". When LRP introduced the SPX, it had a profile that increased boost at full throttle. Even on small tracks the LRP appeared to have an overdrive gear - and did have an advantage. Then Tekin introduced their RS speed control with computer adjustable timing and free firmware updates. We now had a situation where racers with fixed timing speed controls were at a disadvantage. The other result was speeds of cars on a long straight were significantly different - which created poor racing. All was not good.

We now enter the era of lipo/21.5 open speed controls but limited profiles. Initially this was a good fix. The people with more advanced speed controls were required to use profiles/settings that were equal to the older/fixed timing speed controls. Unfortunately since most tracks assume racers will honor the rules without tech and some racers are not honorable, there was cheating going on. Additionally, at large events tech in VTA became difficult as volunteers were required to know how to determine if different brands of speed controls were in the legal mode (This was before the current ROAR "blinky" rules). A class that should have been simple was getting overly complicated. All was not good.

Now we enter the current era of VTA. USVTA outlawed the speed controls that were giving racers an advantage. They also switched to the Novak 25.5 motor (no other 25.5 was available at this time) which slowed the class down to a speed that was more in line with the original intent of the class. The racing on the track was better and most racers were please with the results of the changes. All was good again.

----------

The end result is that USVTA has evolved into a class were any TC chassis built in the past 10 years can be competitive. We are running the same tires/bodies since the class started (no control tires needed for big races). 5000 Mah limit means previous year's batteries are still competitive with the latest/greatest. Single motor manufacturer eliminates the need to buy additional equipment to be competitive.

In the end VTA rules may not suit the needs of some racers. However the intent of the rules was to create a specific racing experience that many racers do enjoy. If there are new ways to enhance that experience, the people responsible for the rules have gladly added those options.
great read Brian..oh dont forget about the 4.2 fdr...lol
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Old 10-24-2012, 04:55 PM   #2275
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Congratulations. You figured me out.
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Sorry had to do just reminds me of Ron white roflmao
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Old 10-24-2012, 04:58 PM   #2276
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I thought the only thing that could be done to the tires was sand the mold seem, not sand the tire or soak the tires over night in bags. Doesnt all the "breaking in tricks" go against the spirit of the class? Maybe im taking that rule to seriously ..
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Old 10-24-2012, 05:21 PM   #2277
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[QUOTE=IndyRC_Racer;11363599]What type of surface are you racing on?

QUOTE]

prepped asphalt
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Old 10-24-2012, 05:38 PM   #2278
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just to remind you USVTA racers that race VTA and want to come to a USVTA event, that the Hotshot crew in Georgia is hosting the ....

***2012 G.O.R.C. Presented By HotShotRC***


Hello everyone, we at Hot Shot RC are proud to present the 2012 Georgia On Road Championship, G.O.R.C., Saturday November 3rd!

We already have several sponsors lined up including, BOCA Bearings, Solaris Tires, & SXT Traction Compounds.

Classes will include USVTA, USGT, F1 21.5, TC 17.5 Sportman, 1/12 13.5 Spec.

We will be post registration on RCSignup soon, as well as the race schedule & rules, plus more details on the event.
Please feel free to post any questions for the event here on this thread.
So everyone, lets get those race cars together and ready to race!


***2012 G.O.R.C. Presented By HotShotRC***
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U.S. Vintage Trans-Am Racing Part 2-gorc_med.jpg  
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Old 10-24-2012, 05:41 PM   #2279
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Back on the subject of batteries.

Charging them at high rates does nothing for performance, and only accelerates wear and tear on the cells. If you want to always play it safe, just charge them at 1C (charge a 5000mah back at 5A, etc.) If that's too slow for you, then fine charge them faster, but only charge it as fast as you need to and stay at or below the mfgr's recommendations.

There is no reason to discharge a lipo down to 3.0v/cell. There is no advantage. You are doing nothing but using more of the finite lifetime of the cells.

Lipos are best stored in a cool place at half charge (about 3.8v per cell). The cells degrade faster if you store them at full charge, and storing them empty you run the risk of a cell falling below 3.0v/cell which is where damage starts.

I always charge at or below 1C, I always balance (I use a charger that isn't even capable of doing an unbalanced charge), I always store my lipos between 30% and 70% charge, and I never store them in a hot place (parked car, garage, etc.) My lipos last forever. I still have three 3.5 year old (bought in April 2009) SMC 4000mah 28c packs that I run in VTA and 17.5 (non-ramped) classes and they show NO difference in power to the latest and greatest. Literally, I will have to get rid of them when the wiring wears out - because the batteries are still good. I can put my VTA car down next to someone else using a 60c 5000mah pack, and in a straight line they are dead even. I have the same top speed, and the same acceleration.

Now, I'm not going to tell you that my old 28c lipos would keep up with a 4.5 in a touring car (I'm sure they won't), but the point is that taking care of them correctly will help them last ages longer than most people keep them.

Besides, I'd rather spend $ on tires, practice laps, and even new cars. I make the lipos last because I don't want to buy new ones!
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Old 10-24-2012, 05:57 PM   #2280
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 303slowdown View Post
I thought the only thing that could be done to the tires was sand the mold seem, not sand the tire or soak the tires over night in bags. Doesnt all the "breaking in tricks" go against the spirit of the class? Maybe im taking that rule to seriously ..
this is true...but nothing that has been posted would not be within the Spirit of the class...

ppl will pick and pick till other ppl see loop holes....

I love this class and I share everything I know and learn about it...its posted here or Nash...

I think ppl take things to far by looking for things wrong and not just being happy with what we have...

so if ppl think its a violation what ppl are posting about tire prep...then okay...

DONT do it guys...here is whats right..
1.remove tires from package
2.mount them on rims
3.glue them
4.race them

now, who can tell the difference?..

new set of tires and open the package
remove the foams and put the tires in the bag
add Reino's Magic Marinade to the tires in the package
fold the top of the package and seal it(staples)
massage the tires and sauce in real good
put them out in the sun for a 1 hour or 2( but make sure you watch them, you dont want them to swell)
then remove the tires from the bag and clean with Reino's cleaner
let them completely dry
finally let them sit like I do for reg club mountextra soft and very ready to turn fast laps off the start
draw back...tires wear really fast
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