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Old 09-06-2012, 02:48 PM   #1771
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Originally Posted by FauxMako View Post
You can always run ROAR-spec VTA instead of USVTA. Then all your local racers can choose based on their current possessions and/or future plans of racing at USVTA or ROAR-spec VTA events. You get the best of both worlds if you believe allowing blinky ESCs in is a benefit.
+1 you can run ROAR spec, but if you do that you should let the newbies know that they will have to comply with the National rule set if they want to go to Non ROAR AKA USVTA races. There is a $5 charge for whining about the National rule set and a $10 charge for whining about the $5 charge.
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Old 09-06-2012, 04:10 PM   #1772
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here is a point my wife made...if she buys all the legal esc/motor combo for USVTA...say a GTB2 and Ballastic 25.5...what will she need to run GT or TC...hummm...a $35 stator...lol

The point thats forgotten is that the USVTA esc list are legal for other classes too...it makes more sense to get the USVTA legal stuff and as your driving gets better, buy a stator and move up.

I think all of the esc/motor change is more about brand loyalty... and thats cool too...but the motor rule is solid...we can add esc's , but if a company isnt willing to get onboard, we cant make them
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Old 09-06-2012, 05:04 PM   #1773
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here is a point my wife made...if she buys all the legal esc/motor combo for USVTA...say a GTB2 and Ballastic 25.5...what will she need to run GT or TC...hummm...a $35 stator...lol

The point thats forgotten is that the USVTA esc list are legal for other classes too...it makes more sense to get the USVTA legal stuff and as your driving gets better, buy a stator and move up.

I think all of the esc/motor change is more about brand loyalty... and thats cool too...but the motor rule is solid...we can add esc's , but if a company isnt willing to get onboard, we cant make them
This is exactly why I like VTA. I'm in the category "Newbies" who have never raced 1/10 scale 4WD on-road before. I like the fact VTA is slower and much more spec than some other classes. It gives me the ability to learn about driving and setup before having to learn which motor/tire/battery/esc etc etc etc is better this week. When I am ready to step up to USGT it will only around $100 with stator, tires, wheels, and body vs the cost of a new motor and esc added into that.
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Old 09-06-2012, 05:31 PM   #1774
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My my my. How quickly the revolving door rotates. I have read the esc battery body etc etc arguments and have participated in my fair share of them. I see the points of both sides of the argument and both sides have some really valid points but VTA does a wonderful job of bringing in new racers with its current rule set. Since VTA has such a strong following then maybe it works as it is. More options may be nice but it could be overwhelming to rookies looking to get started. Yes I have spent time on the other side of this argument as well. I used to ask all of the motor and esc questions too. I have argued on the side of more motor options and larger batteries and have come to the conclusion that vta shoud be run as is. If you really want motor and esc options then I have four letters for ya.................USGT .
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Old 09-06-2012, 08:36 PM   #1775
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True, but you also need to remember that one of the approved ESCs (which will go nameless) also had a very limited update that provided a slight timing and boost adjustment to it. I sold my personal ESC with this feature for a very nice price to someone who wanted to use it to cheat. I ran it in Open so it didn't benefit me either way. I also understand that there were some issues with the original blinky profiles. That was over 3 years ago. At all the races that have adopted blinky has anyone ever really seen or heard of a "cheater" profile or something that looked blinky that wasn't? I really think the proof is in the pudding from the On-Road Paved Nats. The perceived advantage of the ROAR Blinky ESCs and Uber high capacity Batteries and C-Ratings just doesn't exist.

For me I am looking at it from someone who is trying to help get a local track off the ground. They love the idea of USVTA. So do I. But I cannot think of one good reason that I have seen with my own eyes in a variety of applications where blinky isn't blinky in the last several years. If it is all about the one case at Vegas, so be it, but after some time can you not make amends?
Gary if this is a big issue, run the ROAR rules, which are vta rules, but any 25.5, any blinky esc, no mah limit and no driver required.

The USVTA rules work, they have worked, and we will continue forward with what we have.

I have been looking at the esc issue, but I don't think that allowing programmable escs with timing software available is a good thing. I have been looking at the new LRP and the HW Justock. They are supposed to have updateable non timing software. Myron has been testing them, and I want to evaluate them as well. It would be good to have more choices, but I don't want to introduce any sense of insecurity.

I know some of you will ask what the difference is between these escs and blinky mode escs? That is a question I have been considering as well. It's also why there has been a lot of evaluation, which will continue.
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Old 09-06-2012, 08:48 PM   #1776
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You guys are tired of people bringing up the esc thing again , well its a two way street with your if it ain't broke don,t fix it bs. I guarantee if roar esc rules where adopted more racers would join this class. Same goes with the battery mah rule, if their is no performance advantage then whats the problem with allowing say 6500mah's? When changing from one class to another it sucks to have to buy new equipment ( i dont understand how all the if it ain't broke guys dont see this), it would benefit allot of racers and vta to allow equipment people already have.
Again, the ROAR version is right for you.

In the end, this whole thing is 100% free. You pay no membership fee, and I will not be by to inspect your car. The only thing I have ever asked is if you want to say "USVTA" on a class, just follow our rules. If you have "vintage" or "VTA" and you run blinky escs, or no pack limit, that doesn't hurt anybody's feelings. There's a group of guys running any 17.5, any 1 cell pack, any esc up in Minnesota. They seem to have a pretty good turn out all the time, and they are WAAAY off of what the USVTA rules are, but it works for them. God bless 'em.

Maybe we take this stuff too seriously, but I have seen so many things get screwed up because of the gradual slide on the rules or changes nobody saw coming (1/10 monster/stadium trucks in the 90's, 1/8 monster truck, WGT, RCGT, foam tire sedans, etc. etc.). Better to be too cautious than to watch everything disappear in 6 months.
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Old 09-06-2012, 10:07 PM   #1777
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If you guys think about it any esc can be programed , and that's been proven with the gtb .
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Old 09-07-2012, 04:33 AM   #1778
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If you guys think about it any esc can be programed , and that's been proven with the gtb .
I saw all that and whoever programmed it is an idiot if that is true. i don't know how you can be smart enough to get into the code on a circuit board, but you can't see the opportunity to exploit the timing advance. In fact why would you be trying to get into the esc unless you want a performance advantage? Were they looking for more drag brakes?



The other thing is that it's really suspicious if someone is going mach 2 with a gtb. That's kind of the point of the rules.
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Old 09-07-2012, 06:49 AM   #1779
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There's a group of guys running any 17.5, any 1 cell pack, any esc up in Minnesota. They seem to have a pretty good turn out all the time, and they are WAAAY off of what the USVTA rules are, but it works for them. God bless 'em.
LSRCC in Duluth~ Thats us up here~ out 17.5 1s vta has been our biggest class the last 2 years, and down in the cities they run 21.5 2s...

That being said, /topic change
belt drive versus shaft drive /debate on
pros? cons?
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Old 09-07-2012, 07:50 AM   #1780
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In the end, this whole thing is 100% free. You pay no membership fee, and I will not be by to inspect your car. The only thing I have ever asked is if you want to say "USVTA" on a class, just follow our rules.
Rob, you must have nerves of steel or a whole lot of Maalox in your medicine cabinet to put up with the endless barrage of criticism from other racers (and "would-be" racers) regarding USVTA rules. I, for one, see the wisdom of the rules, and particularly appreciate the efforts-- and money, I'm sure!-- that you and your small group of helpers put forth to make all of this happen. Thank you!

I support the rule to allow only non-updateable ESCs. Yes, any ESC can be re-programmed to circumvent the rules, but it's far easier to do so when the update can be done by re-flashing the memory via an existing interface. If the ESC is non-updateable, then any efforts to cheat, if desired, are more effectively expended in other ways.

As you stated, local, club-level racing may always "fudge" the rules as necessary to increase participation, fun, or whatever. But I think that when racers go to a big event, the USVTA rules do an excellent job of keeping the playing field level.

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ROAR has a REAL spec for zero timing now...
The ROAR rules could still use a bit of clarification. I would add a requirement that the motor drive must change states within 10uS of a change in sensor state. (That's the recommendation I made to Big Chuck for the BRL series.) I'm not sure what criteria Rob and company might use, but 10uS should give plenty of time for the ESC's microprocessor to respond to an interrupt or poll the sensor input and make the appropriate response.
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Old 09-07-2012, 08:13 AM   #1781
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Being a relative newcomer to USVTA, I want to thank you RobK for your time and efforts.

I really enjoy VTA racing and was pulled in by the cars. They look cool and are fun to drive. I don't need the headaches of trying to figure out a zillion parameters to tune my motor and ESC. Get a set on the list and go. It works! There's plenty of other things to get my head around on the chassis without the motor & ESC in the equation...

Like others have said, for anything else, go USGT. I have that too now. More cool cars and the possibility of going faster.
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Old 09-07-2012, 08:26 AM   #1782
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I am just putting together a VTA car. I appreciate that the list of components is limited. Knowing I will have the right motor is helpful. I understand that seasoned racers may feel limited, but knowing that I have the same equipment as everybody else helps my peace of mind about being competitive. Yes, I will need lots of practice to really become competitive, but I have a great starting point. I'm planning on running my first race on 9/16 at my local track (Speedworld Raceway) and I'm excited.
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Old 09-07-2012, 08:37 AM   #1783
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well I want to thank Robk too...just for putting up with me...lol

You do a great job even when pressured by others for this and that...stand your ground and make really good decisions for the class...good enough that 65+ ppl signup for this class for the S. Nats....and over 100 all together...

thank you and hope you got your package

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Old 09-07-2012, 10:09 AM   #1784
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Default Traxxas 4tec .... Ok as a trainer for USVTA ?

Repost here in order to hit more specific readers:

I didn't find any info on this in searching the forums...

I have two old Traxxas electric 4tecs that we used to use for promotional public racing at BMW trade shows that we sponsored (our sponsored event, for the attendees, was RC racing).

I am thinking that I could use one of these as a "trainer" for learning to drive and all that ..... prior to purchasing a competitive chassis.

Does anyone know if the USVTA spec hardware will work on these chassis? I guess the only questionable issue would be the spec wheels. Motor and ESC are non-issue, of course.

Other thoughts?

Here's an article from the BMW club magazine, after our first event, back in '94. We were using the Tamiya 4wd M3 back then .... until they were just fully worn out.

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Old 09-07-2012, 10:27 AM   #1785
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... Does anyone know if the USVTA spec hardware will work on these chassis? I guess the only questionable issue would be the spec wheels. Motor and ESC are non-issue, of course.
Yes the USVTA spec wheels will fit on a Traxxas 4-Tec. I have tried using a 4-Tec in VTA races. It was on par with the HPI Sprint 2. Don't expect a very high performance from the 4-Tec.
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