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Old 09-05-2012, 05:43 PM   #1741
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Thanks Myron!

I had it out once up at Harbor two weeks ago, right after I put the NOVAK CLUB COMBO in it.

That's the "good side" you're looking at.

I need a LOT more practice.
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Old 09-05-2012, 05:48 PM   #1742
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Originally Posted by bigb11 View Post
with tekin and trinity coming out with 25.5's. will these motors be allowed to be used.
new motors from Trinity and Tekin?...what would the USVTA benefit to adding these motors?...other than sticking with what works and have worked for years?

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
ect ect ect...fill in the blank
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Old 09-05-2012, 05:51 PM   #1743
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Originally Posted by Marv View Post
Thanks Myron!

I had it out once up at Harbor two weeks ago, right after I put the NOVAK CLUB COMBO in it.

That's the "good side" you're looking at.

I need a LOT more practice.
great place to learn and get a real idea how to hang with the big boys of VTA. Alot of fast and loyal USVTA racers there, and very helpful as well. Get you some track time and swing on down Sept 21-23rd for the USVTA Southern Nats...you will love it..and Im sure you will have plenty of track time by then
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Old 09-05-2012, 07:08 PM   #1744
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Default 17.5 vs kv

Is there a legal kv to replace a 17.5 motor?
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Old 09-05-2012, 09:57 PM   #1745
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Some motors (i.e. Trinity D3 25.5) have improved cooling built into the motor can. This allows drivers to run with a much larger pinion gear, giving them higher top end speeds, and the motor would not heat up over 150 F.
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Old 09-05-2012, 10:07 PM   #1746
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DARKSIDE View Post
new motors from Trinity and Tekin?...what would the USVTA benefit to adding these motors?...other than sticking with what works and have worked for years?

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
ect ect ect...fill in the blank
Darkside, you have to admit that the motor selection for USVTA is 100% biased toward Novak. The ESC list is 77% Novak products. It makes a guy wonder if USVTA is getting paid by Novak in one way or another.
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Old 09-05-2012, 11:25 PM   #1747
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Darkside, you have to admit that the motor selection for USVTA is 100% biased toward Novak. The ESC list is 77% Novak products. It makes a guy wonder if USVTA is getting paid by Novak in one way or another.
In order to do what VTA has done, a motor vendor/supplier had to be chosen. Novak is the most available in distribution channels, hobby shops, online, etc.; and was the logical choice.

It's no different than the tires - HPI isn't paying anyone, it was just the logical choice to use their tires as they were the most appropriate of what was available.

Race VTA long enough and you'll understand the beauty of what has been done.
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Old 09-06-2012, 06:55 AM   #1748
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slashdriver View Post
In order to do what VTA has done, a motor vendor/supplier had to be chosen. Novak is the most available in distribution channels, hobby shops, online, etc.; and was the logical choice.

It's no different than the tires - HPI isn't paying anyone, it was just the logical choice to use their tires as they were the most appropriate of what was available.

Race VTA long enough and you'll understand the beauty of what has been done.
Its completely different, we all run the same spec tire, no other choice allowed which is great, but with motors you have a choice as long as it comes with a Novak sticker its OK ... If the rules allowed only one spec motor then it would be great, but if the rules allow different motors then why limit it to one manufacturer.
One of the legal motors is available only in a combo with esc

When we used 21.5 motors in USVTA, the rules allowed one spec motor

Last edited by Rojna; 09-06-2012 at 07:43 AM.
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Old 09-06-2012, 07:40 AM   #1749
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jmo...these other motors should be given the same considerations as the esc's that are submitted for "testing" when it's proven there are no unfair advantages..they should be allowed.
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Old 09-06-2012, 08:19 AM   #1750
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG JIM WOODMAN View Post
Is there a legal kv to replace a 17.5 motor?
are you asking as far as VTA?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wwddww34 View Post
Some motors (i.e. Trinity D3 25.5) have improved cooling built into the motor can. This allows drivers to run with a much larger pinion gear, giving them higher top end speeds, and the motor would not heat up over 150 F.
good point...thanks for the info

Quote:
Originally Posted by rcsuicide View Post
Darkside, you have to admit that the motor selection for USVTA is 100% biased toward Novak. The ESC list is 77% Novak products. It makes a guy wonder if USVTA is getting paid by Novak in one way or another.
No pay check as far as I know....but as far as Novak being part of the USVTA rules...the USVTA was important enough to Novak that they stepped up to produce products for the USVTA class when other companys said no thank you. Novak took a chance and made specific things for the class while other companys said it was a fade,basher class, and not real racing.

Its the same now with contacting esc co. to put out a legal USVTA esc for us to use. Some see the point, while others dont.

But since Novak put out the 1st 25.5 for us to test and use. And a one motor rules was and still is the best option for the class, this is the direction the USVTA went. If somebody else would have taking that same chance, we probably be having this same discussion. Can you imagine Thunder Power(example) making the 25.5 for us. And everybody had to run it?...You would still have other ppl looking for the advantage from the Reedy,Trinity,Tekin, pool of motors....so why change it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by slashdriver View Post
In order to do what VTA has done, a motor vendor/supplier had to be chosen. Novak is the most available in distribution channels, hobby shops, online, etc.; and was the logical choice.

It's no different than the tires - HPI isn't paying anyone, it was just the logical choice to use their tires as they were the most appropriate of what was available.

Race VTA long enough and you'll understand the beauty of what has been done.
pretty much dead on

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rojna View Post
Its completely different, we all run the same spec tire, no other choice allowed which is great, but with motors you have a choice as long as it comes with a Novak sticker its OK ... If the rules allowed only one spec motor then it would be great, but if the rules allow different motors then why limit it to one manufacturer.
One of the legal motors is available only in a combo with esc

When we used 21.5 motors in USVTA, the rules allowed one spec motor
both 25.5's are Novak motors.....and Ive run both, and the reman as well...Im happy with either

and Ive run Ballastic 21.5's and SS 21.5's...in USVTA...not sure when they didnt allow the Ballastic?...We started with the SS, cause thats all Novak made, the Ball, came and most switched over.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hotrodchevy14 View Post
jmo...these other motors should be given the same considerations as the esc's that are submitted for "testing" when it's proven there are no unfair advantages..they should be allowed.
the new possible esc's is being done cause others are finally seeing the USVTA as a on-road growth program. And the USVTA has never been a 1 esc class. But it is and needs to be a 1 motor class.

here is a thought....how often is a new and better motor released?...also, if I open 10 Novak 25.5's and test them...are they the same?...now imagine testing 10 Novaks,10 Tekins,10 Reedys, 10 LRPs,10 Revtechs....and the list goes on....you think its going to be a level playing field?....quick answer, NO

1 motor rule works...It has been this long, why change it.

and not making a bad eye on anything....ROAR allows these open esc and motors for VTA, but it seems racers dont support their events for whatever reason. Ive been told that the ROAR events are higher($$$) but more than that, VTA racers shy away cause they know that with all this open esc/motor, you dont who going to be running what.

But a USVTA event, you know we are all running pretty much the same stuff and if I lose, "I Lost", not my pocket book or my car/esc/motor/tires/body, cause the guy that beat me,just simply drove better on this day

what a post...and nope, Im not proof reading it...going to work...lol

Thanks again to all of the USVTA racers...and I hope this helps...or maybe it wont...cya Battman
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Old 09-06-2012, 08:31 AM   #1751
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I just started purchasing the parts to put together a VTA car. I went with a TC4 "Club Racer" chassis, my LHS ordered me the Novak Edge combo, and I'm thinking about the
'70 Challenger body. My hope is to participate in the Southern Nats next year (after lots of practice at my local track).
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Old 09-06-2012, 08:41 AM   #1752
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Originally Posted by PirateRN View Post
I just started purchasing the parts to put together a VTA car. I went with a TC4 "Club Racer" chassis, my LHS ordered me the Novak Edge combo, and I'm thinking about the
'70 Challenger body. My hope is to participate in the Southern Nats next year (after lots of practice at my local track).
WELCOME!!!!...

There is an acticle in RC Driver about the TC4 to VTA spec and some really good tips and setup.

here is some info about the S. Nats in case you decide to come this year
Attached Thumbnails
U.S. Vintage Trans-Am Racing Part 2-2012-usvta-southern-nats-final-flyer-kent-ball.jpg   U.S. Vintage Trans-Am Racing Part 2-2012-usvta-southern-nats-flyer-ew.jpg   U.S. Vintage Trans-Am Racing Part 2-b8bf82fa3d82a5724f8a1a3b1f84d6d9_4127.jpg   U.S. Vintage Trans-Am Racing Part 2-club334.jpg   U.S. Vintage Trans-Am Racing Part 2-club343.jpg  

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Old 09-06-2012, 08:47 AM   #1753
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There are huge differences between judging/testing an ESC and judging/testing a motor. With the correct lab equipment, you can test and prove that an ESC conforms to standard motor phase firing strategy and is thus functionally equivalent to other ESC which implement the same firing strategy.

Motors are a huge can of worms. Rotor weight, dimensions, gauss strength, air gap distance between rotor and stator, stator construction/design, sensor characteristics, ... it really is not possible for different vendors to have "functionally equivalent" motors unless they are stealing each others designs. Once you accept that they truly are different, you realize that testing them becomes an arbitrary rule-making process over "HOW MUCH" different (advantageous) can a motor be and still be permitted. Then, people start buying multiple motors looking for the most advantageous one, the rules have to really expand to cover each of the approved motor configurations, rules officials have to know all the different ways that different brands of motors can "cheat" (identifying non-stock novak rotors is pretty straightforward, but what about all the other vendors??); it's a total mess...

the reason both the Ballistic and the SS are permitted is because they were found to be functionally equivalent. They use the SAME rotor and the SAME bearings. If I had to guess I'd bet that the air gap distance and stator functional design is the same or very close to it as well. The Ballistic did not come out to "improve" upon the SS in terms of power/performance/whatever, instead it came out to be a modular motor design to save racers money via swappable stators and being fully rebuildable.

As soon as you start introducing other motors, you take away one of the assets of VTA - the ability to bolt in a new motor, and then not worry about the motor anymore.

The rules make sense as they are. They are part of what has made VTA successful. Cool bodies are not the only reason VTA has become popular....
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Old 09-06-2012, 09:53 AM   #1754
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slashdriver View Post
There are huge differences between judging/testing an ESC and judging/testing a motor. With the correct lab equipment, you can test and prove that an ESC conforms to standard motor phase firing strategy and is thus functionally equivalent to other ESC which implement the same firing strategy.

Motors are a huge can of worms. Rotor weight, dimensions, gauss strength, air gap distance between rotor and stator, stator construction/design, sensor characteristics, ... it really is not possible for different vendors to have "functionally equivalent" motors unless they are stealing each others designs. Once you accept that they truly are different, you realize that testing them becomes an arbitrary rule-making process over "HOW MUCH" different (advantageous) can a motor be and still be permitted. Then, people start buying multiple motors looking for the most advantageous one, the rules have to really expand to cover each of the approved motor configurations, rules officials have to know all the different ways that different brands of motors can "cheat" (identifying non-stock novak rotors is pretty straightforward, but what about all the other vendors??); it's a total mess...

the reason both the Ballistic and the SS are permitted is because they were found to be functionally equivalent. They use the SAME rotor and the SAME bearings. If I had to guess I'd bet that the air gap distance and stator functional design is the same or very close to it as well. The Ballistic did not come out to "improve" upon the SS in terms of power/performance/whatever, instead it came out to be a modular motor design to save racers money via swappable stators and being fully rebuildable.

As soon as you start introducing other motors, you take away one of the assets of VTA - the ability to bolt in a new motor, and then not worry about the motor anymore.

The rules make sense as they are. They are part of what has made VTA successful. Cool bodies are not the only reason VTA has become popular....
good post...makes alot of sense
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Old 09-06-2012, 09:54 AM   #1755
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slashdriver View Post
... The rules make sense as they are. They are part of what has made VTA successful. Cool bodies are not the only reason VTA has become popular....
+1

The rules work just the way they are. I have heard about classes going extinct because of too many rule changes happening too frequently. Let's learn from that history and just wait and see how successful the USVTA rules can be.
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