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Old 01-19-2005, 12:20 PM   #31
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Danny,
You got mail. 2 of them...
/Anders
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Old 01-19-2005, 12:23 PM   #32
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Default Re: 1.18+ cells -vs- orion's 1.19= cells

Quote:
Originally posted by dawgmeat
what is orion doing different from other company to acheive this voltage of 1.19+ , because their the only company with those high numbers
I didn't mean to start a civil war

Who sell the SMC 1.18+ and Orion 1.19+ cells , I'll buy them both and compare to two
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Old 01-19-2005, 12:38 PM   #33
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Wow, big discussion!!!
Well, lets say it that way, its always a matter of
comparing things.

My experience:
I took a Peak GP 3300 out of the shop, dude, wow,
it was a 450, 1.200 Volts.
Man, if this is right my battery sponsor is a beginner

I've cycled it on my Turbomatcher:
6 A charge, 30A discharge with 0,8 Cutoff.
It was 420-425 with 1.15 to 1.16.

What does that mean??? hmmmm.........
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Old 01-19-2005, 12:45 PM   #34
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Most matchers use a .90 cutoff. You can add .005 to the voltage to make like a .90 cutoff and remove 4-6 seocnds to the runtime.

One thing you guys should know when testing packs on the TM-4 is that if the TM-4 is warm it will change the numbers some. Basically when we match cells the machines and room temp are always warm. So it's best to use 4 cells to warm up the machines before testing for accurate results. Also make sure there is no airflow blowing on the cells this will make a big difference on the numbers.
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Old 01-19-2005, 06:59 PM   #35
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Should I send these in, anyone think these numbers are any good??

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Old 01-19-2005, 08:28 PM   #36
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WOW the numbers are very identical each other including the IR.
No, don't send them to Danny-SMC... Send them to me!!!
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Old 01-19-2005, 08:41 PM   #37
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send one in to smc and see if they are true..... LOl and send the otehr one to me jk
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Old 01-19-2005, 09:28 PM   #38
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NO, ME!

- JB
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Old 01-19-2005, 09:35 PM   #39
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ill play you rock paper scissors for it jk
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Old 01-19-2005, 09:49 PM   #40
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Well, I never see any cells are the same number and discharge sec.

Do runtime and voltage are always opposite of each other??

Typically, high voltage will tends to lead to shorter runtime and vice versa...

Maybe I am wrong, don't know??

Personally, I stop buying Orions(no supply) and GM cells(not suitable to me). I currently use local matcher in my area which is good enough for me and the price is acceptable.
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Old 01-19-2005, 09:53 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally posted by DaNieL_KuO
ill play you rock paper scissors for it jk
let's go

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Old 01-19-2005, 09:58 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally posted by ritchie
reedy comes right out and tells you, REAL TIME, thats for the actual 5 minute race. or the numbers are at 300 seconds. soooo,, a if your talking about 300sec 1.19 battery compared to a 420sec 18 or 17, i would think that the 18 would be better, besides your not good enough to tell the difference anyway. well aleast i know i'm not. the problem is, i think anyway, almost everyone fudges one way or another. just buy one pack from a few different matchers, and then restock with the one you like best. same with motor numbers, builder a dynos at 4.5 volts, builder b dynos at 6 and so on. i think roar or who ever otta make a rule, all motors dynoed at 6 volts. just
so does the last page and half mean i was right for once, lol
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Old 01-19-2005, 11:28 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally posted by gee-dub
i just have one question here....
a few years ago (back in the 20A discharge days), everyone was on the 'bash integy' bandwagon for them using the early cut-offs and full runout times to "inflate" numbers. Now, many of the 'name brand' matchers are doing the exact same things as well as stuff like the variable rate discharge, and it seems to be getting almost unanimous applause from the r/c community. why the change in attitudes? I even remember complaints about trinity using .85 instead of .9 for the cutoff voltage to increase run time (not that it added more than a few seconds and also lowered the avg. voltage...but still).
Good post, got me thinking; I feel it has been lost in the bowls of this thread that matching companies don't necessarily improve cells, moreso they match them with like minded cells. Sounds silly when read out loud, doesn't it? Matchers, actually matching. How original! But gone are the days when cells were perversly altered by the matchers. Nowadays, the performance advantage is found in the methods of matching. (not to say all cells are equal, that's not the point)

The variance in cut-off times, discharge rates, and run-out times is an attempt to accurately reproduce the racing scenario. As an example, the variable discharge rate seems characteristic of on-track conditions, although on-track discharge rates fluctuate much faster than the matcher's discharge rates. The run-out time is also a good idea, as it is the end-o-race voltage that all of us are looking for during that last lap battle. Cut-off times ..... those mod motors eat up every last bit of juice, so we indeed should care about this variable! In my opinion, matchers aren't inflating numbers for NO reason, they are inflating numbers by default of matching to a different procedure than their competitors.

With that said, how are we to tell which matcher most accurately reproduces the race situation? Since variable discharge rates cannot be reproduced, we'll never know how close they compare to batteries matched with linear discharge rates. Not to mention variance in the matching equippment..... It's a big crap shoot.

Basically, it boils down to this. Each matcher has their own method of matching cells together. Since there is no single perfect matching procedure, we cannot compare each matchers procedures to one another. Calling for a standardized matching procedure would only serve to halt the quest for the ultimate matching procedure, as it is unlikely the standardized test would be truely indicative of an on-track discharge. The only test we can be sure of ... is on the track!
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Old 01-20-2005, 01:26 AM   #44
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@Pony klr: We will send you some of those packs, I wish you a lifetime supply of batteries! Send me a PM!

@ TCR: Just use them at the track! This is what Atsushi and Marc used at DHI..... Actually I gave them 442/1.195 for qualifying.
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Old 01-20-2005, 02:35 AM   #45
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when comparing cells 1 thing that cannot be altered with variable discharge current/cut off time/discharge time is:
INTERNAL RESISTANCE

if Orion/Peak can come up with some sub -10mOhm cells then i'd believe the (1.2~V)voltage numbers, otherwise they are just another pack of top of the range cells. No better no less.

Of course, now i'd be expecting someone like Oscar to be saying "we do something special to the cells, we get better performance from this [email protected]# process, etc". But if you really do, and obtain better cells, then why don't you match the cells like everyone else (with constant current) and PROVE it that you're enhancement process really works.

Sorry i had to say this, because I also use Orion cells, i think they are great, but i've had equal from quite a few other matchers. It's just a matter of availability for me.
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