Why are we Dumbing down our hobby??
01-12-2005, 11:09 PM
#91
Gordon wasnt saying you in particular. Just alot of guys that cant compete do.
I started racing when I was 16. Didnt know nothing about cars even though my dad was a mechanic. Even doesnt mean anything because I know mechanics that dont know where to start seting up an rc car.
Well anyways I kept on learning year after year. To a point I started being competitive. But I was persistant and learned by reading( studying ). I loved working on them so much that it led to a love with full scale cars and ended up an auto tech like my father. I worked on high end cars Audi, Porshe, mercedez. When I wentto take my first ase exam I said I will wing it because I know. I was wrong! I studied for the next test session and passed. I didnt bitch about it. Funny thing I knew enough from model car racing about suspension alighments it was my first certification.
Now I am 34 and a master tech because I stuck with it and learned thru expieriance by trial and error ( Glad I had understanding bosses).
I paid my dues and well payed for it!
Docters burn the midnight oil to learn what they do , even though they are model cars you still must have self discipline and take your time to learn how to crawl before sprinting. People want to be world champion over night without paying their dues!! It takes years to be good sorry thats the way life is.
I started racing when I was 16. Didnt know nothing about cars even though my dad was a mechanic. Even doesnt mean anything because I know mechanics that dont know where to start seting up an rc car.
Well anyways I kept on learning year after year. To a point I started being competitive. But I was persistant and learned by reading( studying ). I loved working on them so much that it led to a love with full scale cars and ended up an auto tech like my father. I worked on high end cars Audi, Porshe, mercedez. When I wentto take my first ase exam I said I will wing it because I know. I was wrong! I studied for the next test session and passed. I didnt bitch about it. Funny thing I knew enough from model car racing about suspension alighments it was my first certification.
Now I am 34 and a master tech because I stuck with it and learned thru expieriance by trial and error ( Glad I had understanding bosses).
I paid my dues and well payed for it!
Docters burn the midnight oil to learn what they do , even though they are model cars you still must have self discipline and take your time to learn how to crawl before sprinting. People want to be world champion over night without paying their dues!! It takes years to be good sorry thats the way life is.
Last edited by speedxl; 01-12-2005 at 11:18 PM.
01-12-2005, 11:10 PM
#92
My heros at my club are the one who kick ass every week with crap equipment. old crap TC3, old crap tires with cord showing, old crap trasmitter with dials on it. Old crap peice of plywood for a set-up board. He goes out, TQs and wins, just about every time. He proving that you can do it on a shoestring. If you know what your doing.
01-12-2005, 11:23 PM
#93
Alot of the "hardcore" racing types here seem to forget one thing...TIME
I'm all for brushless racing because honestly...to tune, maintain and otherwise RUN modified motors, you must invest a WHOLE HELL OF ALOT OF TIME and MONEY.
I WORK for a living, I have 2 jobs AND attend my University. I too have been in the hobby for years, since 1985 actually, however I simply don't have enough TIME to "compete" with those who DON'T have a spouse or a life, etc.
I'm all for:
1. Building your own car
2. Learning chassis setup
3. practicing ALOT
I'm NOT for:
1. Motor lathes
2. Rebuilding every 2 runs
3. Foam tires
4. Tire Lathes
So in the end, I'd like to see a national "standard" emerge in the future. Where brushless motors and rubber tires are mandatory. As it would level the playing field and allow the HOBBYISTS to keep up with the FANATICS.
I'm all for brushless racing because honestly...to tune, maintain and otherwise RUN modified motors, you must invest a WHOLE HELL OF ALOT OF TIME and MONEY.
I WORK for a living, I have 2 jobs AND attend my University. I too have been in the hobby for years, since 1985 actually, however I simply don't have enough TIME to "compete" with those who DON'T have a spouse or a life, etc.
I'm all for:
1. Building your own car
2. Learning chassis setup
3. practicing ALOT
I'm NOT for:
1. Motor lathes
2. Rebuilding every 2 runs
3. Foam tires
4. Tire Lathes
So in the end, I'd like to see a national "standard" emerge in the future. Where brushless motors and rubber tires are mandatory. As it would level the playing field and allow the HOBBYISTS to keep up with the FANATICS.
01-12-2005, 11:35 PM
#94
Cleggy bud, I have a proplem with repetetive pointless work. I remember in grade school doing long division and thinking after about 3 of them, "OK, I get it, why do I have to do a hundred more long division problems".
Ah, yea taking a cell off was quite an undertaking. It took like two seconds. And that was simply an attempt the keep the whiners quite so I could race a stock brushless with 27T. Which, by the way, has never been a problem because most want to run open.
Most of the effort I have put into my stock brushless is to properly balance the unusual weight of the system. The other day Cesar came up to and commented on how much better my car handled the infield section that Stans. Work that is doing something different and new I like. Changing the oil in my car does nothing for me. However I understand some people like hot dirty sticky oil running down their arms.
I have very strong feelings about pointless work as I see it, and work that it needed, the neccesary evil. I can put up with the neccesary evil. It's the uneccesary work that bothers me.
If I decide all I want to do is drive the car and I can pay somebody else to take care of the rest, is that so bad? What am I supposed to do if all I want to do is to drive/race against YOU.
Ah, yea taking a cell off was quite an undertaking. It took like two seconds. And that was simply an attempt the keep the whiners quite so I could race a stock brushless with 27T. Which, by the way, has never been a problem because most want to run open.
Most of the effort I have put into my stock brushless is to properly balance the unusual weight of the system. The other day Cesar came up to and commented on how much better my car handled the infield section that Stans. Work that is doing something different and new I like. Changing the oil in my car does nothing for me. However I understand some people like hot dirty sticky oil running down their arms.
I have very strong feelings about pointless work as I see it, and work that it needed, the neccesary evil. I can put up with the neccesary evil. It's the uneccesary work that bothers me.
If I decide all I want to do is drive the car and I can pay somebody else to take care of the rest, is that so bad? What am I supposed to do if all I want to do is to drive/race against YOU.
01-12-2005, 11:36 PM
#95
Tech Regular
iTrader: (3)
Soviet: And that would make it fair how? The more you put in the more you get out, thats life. That's "racing". You don't think top real race car drivers make it to the top without doing all the same things?
Also I don't see how brushless and rubber tires would "fix" anything. If everyone has the same ESC and motor that means batteries count, if everyones running rubber tires the guys who can afford (or have them given to them) can throw 'em out every run and still be faster.
Maybe the best choice for you is to not TRY and compete with the top guys, find guys that are in comparable situations with you and have fun with them. Some of my most fun and memorable races are where I'm duking it out for 9th and 10th spot instead of first and second (not that I'm a big time racer or anything, I'm talking club level).
For an example, I want to someday soon get into full size car road racing. For the reasons you listed (time, money) I KNOW that theres no way I'm going to be running a Formula One team. I'm not pessimistic, just realistic.
Not to flame, but maybe people need to remember that even though these are toy cars, expecting to put a couple of weekends a month and being able to compete with the factory guys who can do it 24/7 just isn't going to happen.
Also I don't see how brushless and rubber tires would "fix" anything. If everyone has the same ESC and motor that means batteries count, if everyones running rubber tires the guys who can afford (or have them given to them) can throw 'em out every run and still be faster.
Maybe the best choice for you is to not TRY and compete with the top guys, find guys that are in comparable situations with you and have fun with them. Some of my most fun and memorable races are where I'm duking it out for 9th and 10th spot instead of first and second (not that I'm a big time racer or anything, I'm talking club level).
For an example, I want to someday soon get into full size car road racing. For the reasons you listed (time, money) I KNOW that theres no way I'm going to be running a Formula One team. I'm not pessimistic, just realistic.
Not to flame, but maybe people need to remember that even though these are toy cars, expecting to put a couple of weekends a month and being able to compete with the factory guys who can do it 24/7 just isn't going to happen.
01-12-2005, 11:42 PM
#96
Tech Rookie
I know I am new to the hobby and I have not finished reading all that has been posted in this thread. I do have some thoughts. R/C cars is just my latest hobby. I was really big into paintball and watched that sport grow. One of the things that helped paintball become so big was that it was easy to get started. R/C cars are not so easy. This is something that kept me out for a long time. People take up hobbies to have fun and not have to put in more effort then they do at there normal job. While some get bitten by the bug and take it to the next level, most do not. Most just want to play around and have FUN. That is where I am at right now. I want to play. This will more then likely change because I can already tell that I am bitten by the bug.
Do I think that running 4 cell is dumbing down? No, I just think it makes it easy for people to get involved. The more people that are involved the better it is. Lets go back to paintball. How many full R/C races have you seen on TV? I have watched many paintball tournaments. I know people that play paintball for a living and get paid good money. Most of the pros I have read about in R/C have other jobs. The more people involved the more money manufactures make and the more money they are able to give back.
Now I know this is from a newbie, but I think there are a lot of guys just like me.
Let the flams begain.
Do I think that running 4 cell is dumbing down? No, I just think it makes it easy for people to get involved. The more people that are involved the better it is. Lets go back to paintball. How many full R/C races have you seen on TV? I have watched many paintball tournaments. I know people that play paintball for a living and get paid good money. Most of the pros I have read about in R/C have other jobs. The more people involved the more money manufactures make and the more money they are able to give back.
Now I know this is from a newbie, but I think there are a lot of guys just like me.
Let the flams begain.
01-12-2005, 11:43 PM
#97
Dumbing down the hobby??
4 cell racing---- no, now setting up the chassis and choosing the right line will be more important than ever.... not to mention getting all the available HP the motor can offer.....
Brushless motors---- even though I hate them with a passion....no, it will just allow for a "new age" of motor tuners....
RTR cars---- I really don't care for them either, but I realize that they are an important part f the hobby and the guys that stick with them will eventaully learn the gratification you get by building your own kit...
Nitro RTR cars---- you yet your mama's sweet @$$!!!! When I started in RC Nitro racecars where the pinnicle, if you where gonna race them you had better know what your doing.... now adays any kid picks up an ez-start and fires the POS up and 2 minutes later the dumb@$$ thinks he's an expert....trust me I have met a ton of nitro "experts".... Make them use pullcords if the motor isn't tuned right the thing will never start and they will either learn how to tune it or give up.... the last thing I need to see is another stinking nitro car being ran by one of these turds..... Now I do love to watch a good race between a bunch of REAL nitro experts!!!!
Think of this for a few moments.... back in the late 50's or earily 60's Ford ran superchargers on their flathead in Nascar.... and they dominated, so Nascar outlawed them.... has Ford won races since??? are the cars any slower now??? Restrictor plate racing... are the cars slower... a little, but the guys that tae the time to really understand the car, motor, and chassis excell at these races.
Now take 2 cells away, are you gonna be any slower than the guys who don't set up their chassis, tune their motors, practice like it's a religion, or care for their equiptment...... not at all....
What it will allow is those guys at the track who have the same dedication as yourself, but lack one major part of the equasion......$$$$$$ You know the guy I would bet that most of us know at least one.... he'll be in the A for a week or 2 and then all of a sudden he falls back to B main status, the after a while he's back, and then he falls off.... Maybe he can't afford to race constantly enough, or maybe last month he got a little overtime so he has a few extra bucks to get some of those major consumables that can and will slow you down.... but once they are bought the cash is gone and once they are used up he falls off agian until he gets a little more of the green stuff..... that's the guy you should be afraid of... or maybe you know him and are affraid... Just kidding.....lol
4 cell racing---- no, now setting up the chassis and choosing the right line will be more important than ever.... not to mention getting all the available HP the motor can offer.....
Brushless motors---- even though I hate them with a passion....no, it will just allow for a "new age" of motor tuners....
RTR cars---- I really don't care for them either, but I realize that they are an important part f the hobby and the guys that stick with them will eventaully learn the gratification you get by building your own kit...
Nitro RTR cars---- you yet your mama's sweet @$$!!!! When I started in RC Nitro racecars where the pinnicle, if you where gonna race them you had better know what your doing.... now adays any kid picks up an ez-start and fires the POS up and 2 minutes later the dumb@$$ thinks he's an expert....trust me I have met a ton of nitro "experts".... Make them use pullcords if the motor isn't tuned right the thing will never start and they will either learn how to tune it or give up.... the last thing I need to see is another stinking nitro car being ran by one of these turds..... Now I do love to watch a good race between a bunch of REAL nitro experts!!!!
Think of this for a few moments.... back in the late 50's or earily 60's Ford ran superchargers on their flathead in Nascar.... and they dominated, so Nascar outlawed them.... has Ford won races since??? are the cars any slower now??? Restrictor plate racing... are the cars slower... a little, but the guys that tae the time to really understand the car, motor, and chassis excell at these races.
Now take 2 cells away, are you gonna be any slower than the guys who don't set up their chassis, tune their motors, practice like it's a religion, or care for their equiptment...... not at all....
What it will allow is those guys at the track who have the same dedication as yourself, but lack one major part of the equasion......$$$$$$ You know the guy I would bet that most of us know at least one.... he'll be in the A for a week or 2 and then all of a sudden he falls back to B main status, the after a while he's back, and then he falls off.... Maybe he can't afford to race constantly enough, or maybe last month he got a little overtime so he has a few extra bucks to get some of those major consumables that can and will slow you down.... but once they are bought the cash is gone and once they are used up he falls off agian until he gets a little more of the green stuff..... that's the guy you should be afraid of... or maybe you know him and are affraid... Just kidding.....lol
01-12-2005, 11:45 PM
#98
Bro...I'm talking about the local hotshoes with a TRAILER and several dynos / lathes, etc.
Maybe I'm just pissed or jealous, but I'm REALLY sick of the snotty, uber rich types dominating my local track.
I mean...I have the following:
BMI TC3
TC4
Several stock / mod motors
6 sets of good GP3300s
KO Mars
LRP v7.1
Novak GTX
6 sets of TakeOff rubbers, various compounds.
LRP Pulsar charger
etc, etc.
I'm ALWAYS middle A-main. I can NEVER get higher simply because usually the top 3 or four guys simply have DOMINANT gear.
Oh...forget it...I'm whining.
I suppose I'm simply saying that I'd like a good chance of winning every now and then without having to sandbag down to novice / spec classes.
I can drive...I can tune...I simply don't have the TIME or crazy $$$ some do.
Maybe I'm just pissed or jealous, but I'm REALLY sick of the snotty, uber rich types dominating my local track.
I mean...I have the following:
BMI TC3
TC4
Several stock / mod motors
6 sets of good GP3300s
KO Mars
LRP v7.1
Novak GTX
6 sets of TakeOff rubbers, various compounds.
LRP Pulsar charger
etc, etc.
I'm ALWAYS middle A-main. I can NEVER get higher simply because usually the top 3 or four guys simply have DOMINANT gear.
Oh...forget it...I'm whining.
I suppose I'm simply saying that I'd like a good chance of winning every now and then without having to sandbag down to novice / spec classes.
I can drive...I can tune...I simply don't have the TIME or crazy $$$ some do.
01-12-2005, 11:45 PM
#99
More power, less traction, tighter track, short enough race so batteries are not an issue fixes the competion at the top levels. Newb wouldn't be able to drive them.
A true Ready To RACE (not run) could be a good solution to the newb. It's got to be easy enough for the newb to not get discouraged quickly with set-up problems, turning comms problems, new tires every week, ect....
I'm assuming that the guy who buys a RTR, for the most part, just wants to race. He may with time realize that to get to the top there is more work invovled, but dont' scare 'em off straight away.
A true Ready To RACE (not run) could be a good solution to the newb. It's got to be easy enough for the newb to not get discouraged quickly with set-up problems, turning comms problems, new tires every week, ect....
I'm assuming that the guy who buys a RTR, for the most part, just wants to race. He may with time realize that to get to the top there is more work invovled, but dont' scare 'em off straight away.
01-12-2005, 11:50 PM
#100
Originally posted by psbarger
Soviet: And that would make it fair how? The more you put in the more you get out, thats life. That's "racing". You don't think top real race car drivers make it to the top without doing all the same things?
Also I don't see how brushless and rubber tires would "fix" anything. If everyone has the same ESC and motor that means batteries count, if everyones running rubber tires the guys who can afford (or have them given to them) can throw 'em out every run and still be faster.
Maybe the best choice for you is to not TRY and compete with the top guys, find guys that are in comparable situations with you and have fun with them. Some of my most fun and memorable races are where I'm duking it out for 9th and 10th spot instead of first and second (not that I'm a big time racer or anything, I'm talking club level).
For an example, I want to someday soon get into full size car road racing. For the reasons you listed (time, money) I KNOW that theres no way I'm going to be running a Formula One team. I'm not pessimistic, just realistic.
Not to flame, but maybe people need to remember that even though these are toy cars, expecting to put a couple of weekends a month and being able to compete with the factory guys who can do it 24/7 just isn't going to happen.
Soviet: And that would make it fair how? The more you put in the more you get out, thats life. That's "racing". You don't think top real race car drivers make it to the top without doing all the same things?
Also I don't see how brushless and rubber tires would "fix" anything. If everyone has the same ESC and motor that means batteries count, if everyones running rubber tires the guys who can afford (or have them given to them) can throw 'em out every run and still be faster.
Maybe the best choice for you is to not TRY and compete with the top guys, find guys that are in comparable situations with you and have fun with them. Some of my most fun and memorable races are where I'm duking it out for 9th and 10th spot instead of first and second (not that I'm a big time racer or anything, I'm talking club level).
For an example, I want to someday soon get into full size car road racing. For the reasons you listed (time, money) I KNOW that theres no way I'm going to be running a Formula One team. I'm not pessimistic, just realistic.
Not to flame, but maybe people need to remember that even though these are toy cars, expecting to put a couple of weekends a month and being able to compete with the factory guys who can do it 24/7 just isn't going to happen.
Thats my they have T-spec.
Question? Why dont the people that complain about the cost of racing go and buy t-specs or race legends?
Because its like getting caught driving a lime green amc gremlin! It isnt cool and sporty!
01-12-2005, 11:52 PM
#101
Bad-Attitude-- a little off topic, but about paintball... I think that the biggest thrill I could find in it would be hunting an animal that has the same abilities, and capabilities as yourself. I mean hunting an animal that is hunting you.... that's a challenge!! But unlike the other 90% of the males around here where I live I just can't get a thrill out of hunting anything....lol Now chasing something down on a racetrack.... ohh yeah that excites me....
01-12-2005, 11:54 PM
#102
Perhaps we simply need to make the classes based on how much your pit equipment is worth:
1. Rich daddy boy class
2. Doin' alright, but gotta watch the wallet.
3. Maybe I'll get some 1.17 someday.
4. What's a 1.17?
1. Rich daddy boy class
2. Doin' alright, but gotta watch the wallet.
3. Maybe I'll get some 1.17 someday.
4. What's a 1.17?
01-12-2005, 11:56 PM
#103
Join the army dude. Go to exotic counties, meet exotic new people and kill em.
01-13-2005, 12:01 AM
#104
Originally posted by Soviet
Bro...I'm talking about the local hotshoes with a TRAILER and several dynos / lathes, etc.
Maybe I'm just pissed or jealous, but I'm REALLY sick of the snotty, uber rich types dominating my local track.
I mean...I have the following:
BMI TC3
TC4
Several stock / mod motors
6 sets of good GP3300s
KO Mars
LRP v7.1
Novak GTX
6 sets of TakeOff rubbers, various compounds.
LRP Pulsar charger
etc, etc.
I'm ALWAYS middle A-main. I can NEVER get higher simply because usually the top 3 or four guys simply have DOMINANT gear.
Oh...forget it...I'm whining.
I suppose I'm simply saying that I'd like a good chance of winning every now and then without having to sandbag down to novice / spec classes.
I can drive...I can tune...I simply don't have the TIME or crazy $$$ some do.
Bro...I'm talking about the local hotshoes with a TRAILER and several dynos / lathes, etc.
Maybe I'm just pissed or jealous, but I'm REALLY sick of the snotty, uber rich types dominating my local track.
I mean...I have the following:
BMI TC3
TC4
Several stock / mod motors
6 sets of good GP3300s
KO Mars
LRP v7.1
Novak GTX
6 sets of TakeOff rubbers, various compounds.
LRP Pulsar charger
etc, etc.
I'm ALWAYS middle A-main. I can NEVER get higher simply because usually the top 3 or four guys simply have DOMINANT gear.
Oh...forget it...I'm whining.
I suppose I'm simply saying that I'd like a good chance of winning every now and then without having to sandbag down to novice / spec classes.
I can drive...I can tune...I simply don't have the TIME or crazy $$$ some do.
Half the time people over look self discipline to practice and to study what they are doing and understand what they are doing! Practice if you want to be competitive if not accept it as a hobby and the rich trailor guys shouldnt be a bother!
Last edited by speedxl; 01-13-2005 at 12:09 AM.
01-13-2005, 12:07 AM
#105
Tech Fanatic
I understand people's unjust opinion on guys that have a lot of high tech stuff but I have been in this hobby for 14-15 years now have have built up quite an arsenal of high tech stuff over the years and that's what people don't understand.they automatically assume that it takes all this stuff to race and I quickly explain that I've been at this for some time now and it doesn't take all this stuff to race.I just like high tech stuff that's all.I don't buy it all at the same time either, a little at a time.
