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Old 10-10-2011, 11:17 AM   #16
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I think VTA has greater potential of becoming on road "slash" class.
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Old 10-10-2011, 11:36 AM   #17
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I think VTA and F1 can be equally successful. VTA has a great formula and is appealing for many reasons. Cost and scale looks among them. I think F1 could do just as well. But probably not on the scale of the slash. Slash was just the perfect storm.
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Old 10-10-2011, 11:37 AM   #18
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we already have our on road "slash " class ...

as well as vta , tc and monster truck on road...
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Old 10-10-2011, 11:37 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Misiek View Post
I think VTA has greater potential of becoming on road "slash" class.
I think you're right. It would be nice if companies or stores helped new people out though with fully race legal cars(RTR or Kit/combo). HPI almost got it.

I'd love to see the big RC companies make their online stores like Dell/AlienWare or some 1:1 car companies, where you build your RC. It would be cool if you could see if it's legal for various classes offered around the world. Then have pro built to specs for a fee or DIY kit. Should have new racer in a box packages with all the tools, fluids, charger, instructions and setup guide, etc., included. It's easily doable by several companies and hobby stores.

While I'm dreaming, lets have a database of all active RC tracks worldwide and their gps co-ordinates, preferably with all the class restrictions and hours of operation.
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Old 10-10-2011, 11:52 AM   #20
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Like what others have said...like the Slash class there needs to be a race ready RTR in either VTA or F1 before it would catch on like Slash. Personally I think F1 is the better choice because it less expensive to build a competitive chassis.
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Old 10-10-2011, 11:59 AM   #21
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The other issue with F1, I don't mean to sound like an F1 basher(I'm not really), is they they are harder to handle and like someone else said, they are not really basher friendly. For F1, or any pan based cars, you need a prepared surface to run on. They just are not something you can throw down in the street and enjoy because they will be skipping off rocks and cracks in the street. I know we are not talking about bashers, but the Slash brought a lot of people to racing because they are a run anywhere type of vehicle.
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Old 10-10-2011, 12:53 PM   #22
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In our club we have a "Slash" type class we call it mini, mini brings all kinds of new drivers out and lets them race on a budget. F1 seems to have become the next step up in our club and now we have a regular group of 10 F1 drivers and almost all started in mini, and still race mini.
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Old 10-10-2011, 01:30 PM   #23
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The one nice thing about F1 is if you have a box stock kit with a silver can and you follow the basic instructions to build, you can be racing in no time. I see the biggest problem as parts support for the Tamiya F1s. The same goes for Mini. Break the wrong part and wait for 2 weeks. Minis seem to break way more than the F1 kits, probably because the skill level of the average F1 racer is much higher. As an alternative the 3 Racing F109 is extremely durable and very quick. Good drivers don't smack the walls unless they get put there. Good thing Lewis Hamilton doesn't drive RC cars at your local track.

The previous post about some sort of model selection system where skill level, racing conditions and desired level of competition would be great for new hobbyists with an eye towards racing. At the bottom rung of that ladder system I still see VTA, RGGT and 21.5 No Timing TC. If you want the best controlled learning class out there, I'd direct a new racer to any of those 3 and I would direct them at the 3Racing Sakura Zero S if they were looking at a new "learning" chassis. At $105.00 you can't go wrong and good parts cost. You can even afford to stock up a few parts at that price. And it can be upgraded all the way to the top of the line Zero.
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Old 10-10-2011, 03:07 PM   #24
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TC is/was on-road's Slash class. Things were slightly different because TC hit before RTR was popular and it worked because people still actually were willing to build and work on things.

Many may think that TCs started off this way but the reality is that they began as re-invented 4wd off-road buggies (similar to how a Slash was converted from something else). As re-invented buggies they had shorter suspension arms to allow for more scale appearance but they maintained more off-road like suspension travel which allowed them to run in parking lots and other not so desirable surfaces with not much problem.

Parking lot racing was born. Races were held in view of the public view and the TC class grew and grew until it was the most popular R/C racing category in the world. As it grew the cars became less and less realistic, tracks were purpose built and the cars became harder to drive. While TC still exists it is not nearly as popular as it once was.

VTA and F1 are good classes but they are just versions what already exists (pure race cars). Another on-road version of the Slash will need to be new, realistic, and able to be run on more than a just a prepared on-road track.
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Old 10-10-2011, 03:59 PM   #25
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The on road slash will be a TC. If one manufacture released a RTR TC for under $300 it could take off. It will need to have a scale realistic body also. You will almost never see someone look at the box of a current tc with a roar legal body and say I want that! They look at the cars that come with a Mustang or Corvette or Audi body and want those. My friend just bought a used TC5, the first thing he did was order a Nissan GTR body for it. The slash sold because kids saw the box at the store and wanted what was pictured on the front. They did not care what motor or ESC or tires it had. This is one of the problems with on road. We all get caught up in the rules of racing and try to make everything fit those. New people in this sport could care less about the rules they want a cool looking car that goes fast(or what they think is fast). On road needs a run what you brung class. Newbies it will not matter what motor or ESC they have. Just getting clean laps will be the challenge. Then when they get better at driving start discussing electronics and what class for therm to move into. If we want on road to make a comeback stop discussing rules and dividing things up. Get the cars on the track then go from there. We are in this hobby to drive our cars not map out the circumstances in which to drive our cars.

F1 could be a decent class but the cars can be harder to drive. They have the cool looks to help with impulse purchases. The cars are very durable. If I had crashed my TC like I have my F1 I would have broken a lot more parts. I actually can not think of any parts I have broken on my F1. Parts support is not a problem. Order your parts online and you will have them within a week. We also should not shoot down a class because a LHS does not carry parts. If they are a good shop they could easily stock up on the F1 parts to have them. Just because they do not have them now does not mean they can not have them.

Next time you are around a SCT race pay close attention to the non serious racers there. The only time they are in the pits they are waiting for a battery to charge or replacing a broken part. They are not concerned about what motor the other guy has. If you went up and asked most of them what front camber they were running you would get a blank stare back. As long as they have the same tires as the fast guy at the track they think their setup is good. These are what needs to happen to a a slash type vehicle in on road. As soon as you start mentioning motor turns and ESC blinky or boost or tire diameter you will turn away a majority of potential new drivers.
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Old 10-10-2011, 04:11 PM   #26
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Around here (Western Canada) Tamiya M-chassis is the SC of onroad. We even have a spec brushless combo now like in Australia. Cheap and easy to start, durable, and some of the closest, funnest racing ever.

At our Western Canadian Indoor Championship Series, we expect 60 mini entries. More than any other class.
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Old 10-10-2011, 04:13 PM   #27
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Got to say this.
My 103 is/was 10x more durable than my jrxs.
The cars are tough enough (aside from chunking foam tires).
Big deal is getting the rules package ironed out before
your local track starts up a class and stick to it.

One of the issues we had was the intermingling between the 103s and the 104s.Only the top guys could run out front with a full narrow car and
once they bolted up a 103 front end it was all over with. I think someone on the 1st page said that once you
drive a 103 you won't want to go back to the narrow car...I could not
agree more

Another issue is track surface. They fair much better on a prepped surface...so if your "local track" is a parking lot,they can be a bit of a handful.
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Old 10-10-2011, 04:34 PM   #28
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What if....

a company came out with an F1 that was oversized to allow for more suspension travel and more ground clearance to actually run in a parking lot.

It was larger than a 10th scale, but not quite as large as a Slash. That might be kinda cool (as i look over at my unused SC10 and start thinking crazy thoughts)
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Old 10-10-2011, 04:49 PM   #29
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something built more like a rally car with a street car body is the ticket for a budget onroad class.. it cant be RWD it has to be either FWD or AWD as they are much easier to drive for novices.. i thoroughly enjoyed the video of the short course trucks running onroad.. that looks fun..
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Old 10-10-2011, 06:30 PM   #30
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Despite the fact I'm currently getting an F104 together, I don't think it has a chance at becomming the Shortcourse of onroad, despite the reasons mentioned above with parts availiability, and driveablity, what made short course so popular (particularly spec slash) was for $300, you could compete with someone who spent four times as much, and still win.

With onroad in general (minus VTA), you spend a ton on tires and motors. If you spec F1 to silver can, it still becomes a money game to have the fastest red-dot motor, or your own magial voodoo to make them spin faster. Then you get to choose foam or rubber tire, and if the answer is foam, rollout/gearing changes, tire trueing, and several other variables are thrown in. This is what turned me away from F1 the first time, it's just to much work to focus on when there's only 3 other people in your class.

While spec slash still had the equivilent of the slivercan/red-dot/magical voodoo problems, it was simple, strait forward, and a legal/illegal black and white class (before there were 800 versions of the slash). VTA is the same way, but what made Shortcourse much more popular was the availiability of a legal rtr, VTA doesn't have that, and badly needs it IMO... From there, once they get bit by the bug, they'll eventually turn around and get a kit and be hooked for life.
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