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Old 01-11-2012, 05:18 AM   #1201
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Can you reccomend me a few ratios for boosted 10,5T Pro Stock racing? I'm looking to buy a few pinions, I'm racing at a large fast track and at a tight technical one
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Old 01-11-2012, 05:24 AM   #1202
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Can you reccomend me a few ratios for boosted 10,5T Pro Stock racing? I'm looking to buy a few pinions, I'm racing at a large fast track and at a tight technical one
depends on the motor, but anywhere between 7-9 will be a good starting point.
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Old 01-11-2012, 06:53 AM   #1203
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hello guys..i need help..
been asking paul lemiux in the xray website but there's argument between ppl there..and makes me even lost..my question quite simple..is droop=downstop?t3 12 manual n setup sheet doesnt mention about how to adjust droop..what is droop and what so importan about it?
If you race an Xray do yourself a favour and use the downstop settings. If you are not very experienced go for 5 rear and 6 front or a little less if you can handle it (4,6 and 5,6). If the tires overheat, go for a little more. More is a higher downstop number but less droop. To measure this you will need the HUDY blocks and downstop gauge but guys at your local track can most likely help you with this. Donīt use other manufacturers tools for this because the numbers will most likely not match.

Droop is measured by setting your ride height correctly. Lets say your front is 5mm at rest then you fully extend the suspension and measure the ride height again. If it reads 7.5 mm then your droop is 2.5mm. This is all very well explained in the Xray setup book.

If it sounds confusing just forget about droop and set your downstops and go be fast

- Emil

PS I am assuming you race rubber...
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Old 01-11-2012, 07:10 AM   #1204
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Originally Posted by kakaroctt View Post
hello guys..i need help..
been asking paul lemiux in the xray website but there's argument between ppl there..and makes me even lost..my question quite simple..is droop=downstop?t3 12 manual n setup sheet doesnt mention about how to adjust droop..what is droop and what so importan about it?
They are related but not exactly the same thing. Downstop measures are using a gauge with the tires off the car/chassis in the air. They are the setscrews in the a-arms.

Droop is basically the downstop setting but with the tires on and the car on the ground. Droop is how much the arms can raise before the tires lift off the ground. Given the same downstop setting, you'd have two different droop settings if you changed the ride height while leaving the downstop the same.
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Old 01-11-2012, 08:56 AM   #1205
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thanks a lot guys..
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Originally Posted by pchroma24 View Post
According to Martin Crisp's definition, droop is simply the vertical distance the chassis travels from the point it is sitting at rest to the point the wheel lifts off the ground, usually measured with a ride height gauge. Typically around 2mm is a good starting point. It controls weight transfer by limiting the amount the chassis rolls when transitioning through a corner. It is adjusted by the grub screws located towards the inside of the arms. Small adjustments go a long way here... I cannot answer with absolute certainty if downstop=droop but I (imo) view them the same.... I do hope this is helpful...

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Originally Posted by Emil View Post
If you race an Xray do yourself a favour and use the downstop settings. If you are not very experienced go for 5 rear and 6 front or a little less if you can handle it (4,6 and 5,6). If the tires overheat, go for a little more. More is a higher downstop number but less droop. To measure this you will need the HUDY blocks and downstop gauge but guys at your local track can most likely help you with this. Donīt use other manufacturers tools for this because the numbers will most likely not match.

Droop is measured by setting your ride height correctly. Lets say your front is 5mm at rest then you fully extend the suspension and measure the ride height again. If it reads 7.5 mm then your droop is 2.5mm. This is all very well explained in the Xray setup book.

If it sounds confusing just forget about droop and set your downstops and go be fast

- Emil

PS I am assuming you race rubber...
Quote:
Originally Posted by M-Technic View Post
They are related but not exactly the same thing. Downstop measures are using a gauge with the tires off the car/chassis in the air. They are the setscrews in the a-arms.

Droop is basically the downstop setting but with the tires on and the car on the ground. Droop is how much the arms can raise before the tires lift off the ground. Given the same downstop setting, you'd have two different droop settings if you changed the ride height while leaving the downstop the same.
can i ask a few more question?
when i set the downstop at f6,r5,i can't set the droop at 2mm when i trying to adjust ride height i desired which is 6mm......the droop level keep moving...set the droop,cant set the ride height....plus the spring move freely about 2mm(is this normal?)
i almost slam my car to the wall...
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Old 01-11-2012, 09:32 AM   #1206
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thanks a lot guys..







can i ask a few more question?
when i set the downstop at f6,r5,i can't set the droop at 2mm when i trying to adjust ride height i desired which is 6mm......the droop level keep moving...set the droop,cant set the ride height....plus the spring move freely about 2mm(is this normal?)
i almost slam my car to the wall...
Page four of the xray setup book details the order of setup, pages 6-11 break each component down as to how to correctly adjust...

1 measure downstops with shock / tires off f6/r5 at the end of the arms.
2 then set desired ride height typically 5mm to start with car fully assembled, race ready
3 then check droop ... Should be approx 2mm over ride height (orh), fine tune adjust from here...

Assuming a rubber tire setup, Downstop is measured at the end of the arms whereas droop is measured at the chassis. Both measurements are referencing essentially the same thing just at different points. ie: using your ride height gauge, the chassis at rest would read 6mm (your desired ride height), then, lift the chassis by the front shock tower till the front tire is just leaving the ground, at this point, remeasure your ride height... you should get approx 8mm.... the difference in the (2) measurements (8mm - 6mm) is your droop = 2mm repeat for the rear of the car...

Your using the same screws to make both adjustments

Im sure some of the others can clarify better.... Hope it helps...
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Last edited by pchroma24; 01-11-2012 at 09:53 AM.
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Old 01-11-2012, 09:48 AM   #1207
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kakaroctt, are you trying to set the ride height using the droop screws instead of pre-load on the shocks(spinning the collars down)?
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Old 01-11-2012, 11:27 AM   #1208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pchroma24 View Post
Page four of the xray setup book details the order of setup, pages 6-11 break each component down as to how to correctly adjust...

1 measure downstops with shock / tires off f6/r5 at the end of the arms.
2 then set desired ride height typically 5mm to start with car fully assembled, race ready
3 then check droop ... Should be approx 2mm over ride height (orh), fine tune adjust from here...

Assuming a rubber tire setup, Downstop is measured at the end of the arms whereas droop is measured at the chassis. Both measurements are referencing essentially the same thing just at different points. ie: using your ride height gauge, the chassis at rest would read 6mm (your desired ride height), then, lift the chassis by the front shock tower till the front tire is just leaving the ground, at this point, remeasure your ride height... you should get approx 8mm.... the difference in the (2) measurements (8mm - 6mm) is your droop = 2mm repeat for the rear of the car...

Your using the same screws to make both adjustments

Im sure some of the others can clarify better.... Hope it helps...
owh...that sequence makes me more clear on how to set...tq pchroma..
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Old 01-11-2012, 11:29 AM   #1209
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Donīt use other manufacturers tools for this because the numbers will most likely not match.
I am using the dynamite gauges and this has got me thinking about the values. I wonder how these compare as I have just been using the 5 and 6 that the setup sheet suggests.

What droop values do these numbers give you? 2mm of drrop seems to come up a bit but wouldn't it be different front and rear is using 6 and 5 as your downstops values?
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Old 01-11-2012, 11:36 AM   #1210
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kakaroctt, are you trying to set the ride height using the droop screws instead of pre-load on the shocks(spinning the collars down)?
i'm using the shock collar to set ride height...but it seems going no where...even when shock spring been compress with the collar...is it imposible to get ride height a litle higher than 5mm when we set downstop at 5mm?(front or rear)reason i want higher ride hight is our track is a litle bumpy...
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Old 01-11-2012, 11:36 AM   #1211
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Originally Posted by Mera'din View Post
I am using the dynamite gauges and this has got me thinking about the values. I wonder how these compare as I have just been using the 5 and 6 that the setup sheet suggests.

What droop values do these numbers give you? 2mm of drrop seems to come up a bit but wouldn't it be different front and rear is using 6 and 5 as your downstops values?
Droop depends on the ride height so if you used the same ride height front and rear, and set your downstops to 6/5, then you'd droops would be different.
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Old 01-11-2012, 11:47 AM   #1212
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Originally Posted by Mera'din View Post
I am using the dynamite gauges and this has got me thinking about the values. I wonder how these compare as I have just been using the 5 and 6 that the setup sheet suggests.

What droop values do these numbers give you? 2mm of drrop seems to come up a bit but wouldn't it be different front and rear is using 6 and 5 as your downstops values?

You shouldn't have any problems as long as the "droop blocks" are the same manufacturer as the gauge. The Hudy gauges, for example, use a 10mm droop block and the numbers on the gauge correspond to mm over 10.

Using the Hudy blocks 6 on the Hudy gauge is actually 16mm off the board. If your chassis is sitting flat on a setup board you can just use a ride height gauge and the numbers will correspond.
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Old 01-11-2012, 11:53 AM   #1213
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There are a lot of ways to measure droop or uptravel in a TC. Most of the info you see on the setup sheets from team drivers usually is a measurement of the position of the arm relative to the board assuming the Hudy droop blocks which are 10mm (I think they are 10mm) thick. I do not measure droop this way, but many people do.

I always measure droop or uptravel on the board with shocks and tires installed. I measure the amount of uptravel at static ride height. So here is how I do it...

Car should be race ready without body installed..

Set front of the car to 5mm of ride height with a ride height gauge and back out the droop screws until they are no longer in contact with the chassis.

Adjust the droop screws until the suspension at maximum uptravel is 6.5mm on my ride height gauge.

Here is how you measure this: While holding down the outside right rear tire so that it stays in contact with the setup board you lift the chassis by the shock tower (on the right rear of the car) until the suspension bottoms out on the droop screw. Adjust this (with the droop screw) until the bottom of the chassis reads 6.5mm on your ride height gauge. This will create a 1.5mm uptravel in the car. Remember to do each side of the car before adjusting the other end of the car. Also be careful not to pull up with too much force as you do not want to bend any of the plastics to achieve your desired droop settings.

You can use the droop blocks and gauges if you have the time, but for quick changes my method (not really my method, but you know what I mean) works very well and it super fast once you get it figured out.

My personal feeling is that most measurements should be done as the car would go on the track where possible.
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Old 01-11-2012, 12:03 PM   #1214
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Ultimately what you want is to get the right uptravel over ride height. Usually 2-3mm.
A friend showed me an easy way to set this. Set your ride height to 5mm, for example. Put the car (with the tires on) on 10mm droop blocks and then adjust the droop screws until you have about a 2mm gap under each tire in the back(space between the tire and the setup board) and a 3mm gap under the front tires. That would give 3mm uptravel in the back and 2mm in the front.

It's pretty easy to do the math. 10mm minus your ride height and the gap below the tires will leave you with the amount of uptravel over ride height.
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Old 01-11-2012, 12:07 PM   #1215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by artwork View Post
There are a lot of ways to measure droop or uptravel in a TC. Most of the info you see on the setup sheets from team drivers usually is a measurement of the position of the arm relative to the board assuming the Hudy droop blocks which are 10mm (I think they are 10mm) thick. I do not measure droop this way, but many people do.

I always measure droop or uptravel on the board with shocks and tires installed. I measure the amount of uptravel at static ride height. So here is how I do it...

Car should be race ready without body installed..

Set front of the car to 5mm of ride height with a ride height gauge and back out the droop screws until they are no longer in contact with the chassis.

Adjust the droop screws until the suspension at maximum uptravel is 6.5mm on my ride height gauge.

Here is how you measure this: While holding down the outside right rear tire so that it stays in contact with the setup board you lift the chassis by the shock tower (on the right rear of the car) until the suspension bottoms out on the droop screw. Adjust this (with the droop screw) until the bottom of the chassis reads 6.5mm on your ride height gauge. This will create a 1.5mm uptravel in the car. Remember to do each side of the car before adjusting the other end of the car. Also be careful not to pull up with too much force as you do not want to bend any of the plastics to achieve your desired droop settings.

You can use the droop blocks and gauges if you have the time, but for quick changes my method (not really my method, but you know what I mean) works very well and it super fast once you get it figured out.

My personal feeling is that most measurements should be done as the car would go on the track where possible.
err...this is more likely a setting by a pro driver...impresive..!
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