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Old 12-16-2011, 04:36 PM   #991
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Why does everyone say to run 50mm ecs in the rear ?
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Old 12-16-2011, 06:37 PM   #992
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Default higher front roll center

this question can be for the rear of the car too, but what is the diff/feel if you just change the outer pivot, instead of the inner? Meaning, what if i change the outer pivot to 1.5mm on the C hub from 1mm instead of changing the inner link (clamp) from 1mm to nothing?
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Old 12-16-2011, 06:51 PM   #993
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Why does everyone say to run 50mm ecs in the rear ?
Because if you're running the car narrow in the rear (very few spacers between the lower roll center arm holders and the cross braces) and if you run more than -2* camber the axle will bind in the outdrive during the up/down travel of the rear suspension. Thats for 50mm dog bones.

I think the only people that run any ECS in the rear is probably because they don't have normal dog bone/axle asssemblies but wanted to try the shorter option. ECS in the back will work but its not normal.
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Old 12-16-2011, 08:30 PM   #994
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Because if you're running the car narrow in the rear (very few spacers between the lower roll center arm holders and the cross braces) and if you run more than -2* camber the axle will bind in the outdrive during the up/down travel of the rear suspension. Thats for 50mm dog bones.

I think the only people that run any ECS in the rear is probably because they don't have normal dog bone/axle asssemblies but wanted to try the shorter option. ECS in the back will work but its not normal.
Not ECS sorry. I meant to say rear axle shafts.
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Old 12-16-2011, 08:42 PM   #995
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Originally Posted by entitymugenmtx View Post
Not ECS sorry. I meant to say rear axle shafts.

Figured as much but wanted to make sure.

The easiest way to see if what you're running has a bind issue, is to get the car off the ground and disconnect your lower shock mounts, then as you rotate one wheel move the arm up and down, you will be able to feel the bind if you have any. Take note that normal articulation won't be the full travel that you'll be able to do with the shock off, but it will give you a good indicator of any bind problems.

You can almost get away with 52's if you trim the pin cushions slightly about .5mm but you'll still be limited to the amount of negative camber you can run. if you go that route just do the above test to make sure its bind free.
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Old 12-16-2011, 08:45 PM   #996
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Thank you for all your help.
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Old 12-16-2011, 08:58 PM   #997
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Originally Posted by Bigz84 View Post
this question can be for the rear of the car too, but what is the diff/feel if you just change the outer pivot, instead of the inner? Meaning, what if i change the outer pivot to 1.5mm on the C hub from 1mm instead of changing the inner link (clamp) from 1mm to nothing?
Besides the obvious that your changing the angle of the upper link in relation to the lower arm, you're also making the link longer which tends to take some of the side bite out of the car. This is changing the speed of the camber change as the car rolls thru the corners.
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Old 12-17-2011, 09:44 PM   #998
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I had some major problems with traction rolling in last night's club race (carpet). Both cars (blinky & 13.5 boosted) got progressively worse as the grip came up. I made all of the usual adjustments, laid the front shocks down, played with roll center, decreased camber, changed the body and so on. I didn't want to change too much cause the cars had been soo good on this layout but, last night by the main both were pretty much undriveable. I was running kit setup for shocks (CST350 oil).

I'm now thinking that under-damping was causing the cars to reach max roll too early (traction roll was happening mid corner). I've gone to CST 450 front and 425 rear to give it a try. Anyone had a similar experience...and how'd you fix it?
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Old 12-17-2011, 11:14 PM   #999
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I had some major problems with traction rolling in last night's club race (carpet). Both cars (blinky & 13.5 boosted) got progressively worse as the grip came up. I made all of the usual adjustments, laid the front shocks down, played with roll center, decreased camber, changed the body and so on. I didn't want to change too much cause the cars had been soo good on this layout but, last night by the main both were pretty much undriveable. I was running kit setup for shocks (CST350 oil).

I'm now thinking that under-damping was causing the cars to reach max roll too early (traction roll was happening mid corner). I've gone to CST 450 front and 425 rear to give it a try. Anyone had a similar experience...and how'd you fix it?
Same deal here Jim, Ryan ended up going to 40wt oil in the front, fixed it up pretty good. We're having some questions about the validity of the soft/lite setups as the traction is coming up, roll being the biggest issue.
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Old 12-17-2011, 11:26 PM   #1000
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Thanks Gary, sounds like I'm going in the right direction.
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Old 12-18-2011, 05:05 AM   #1001
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Originally Posted by Johnny Wishbone View Post
Same deal here Jim, Ryan ended up going to 40wt oil in the front, fixed it up pretty good. We're having some questions about the validity of the soft/lite setups as the traction is coming up, roll being the biggest issue.
In Poland at last two finals when grip is great , some people use even 650 oil in modified !

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Old 12-18-2011, 08:01 AM   #1002
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In Poland at last two finals when grip is great , some people use even 650 oil in modified !
Good to know, thanks.
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Old 12-18-2011, 03:33 PM   #1003
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Received my kit yesterday, can't wait to build it

Just one quick question- did you receive stickers with T3'12 on them and do your certificates say "Xray T3 2012" or just T3?
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Old 12-18-2011, 06:33 PM   #1004
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I have never paid any attention to the certificates, unless I can get a discount on parts

My tc 2012 kit came in about a month ago and my cert. only indicates a t3, and not that of 2012.
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Old 12-18-2011, 07:26 PM   #1005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcar951 View Post
I had some major problems with traction rolling in last night's club race (carpet). Both cars (blinky & 13.5 boosted) got progressively worse as the grip came up. I made all of the usual adjustments, laid the front shocks down, played with roll center, decreased camber, changed the body and so on. I didn't want to change too much cause the cars had been soo good on this layout but, last night by the main both were pretty much undriveable. I was running kit setup for shocks (CST350 oil).

I'm now thinking that under-damping was causing the cars to reach max roll too early (traction roll was happening mid corner). I've gone to CST 450 front and 425 rear to give it a try. Anyone had a similar experience...and how'd you fix it?
I think 'how to cure it' depends on how the grip roll is occuring.
I recall in the past that I have gone softer on springs which cured it. Other times heavier oil, but sometimes that makes things worse.

Also raise the front wishbone roll centre's

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