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Old 09-10-2012, 04:32 PM   #3691
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Most people I have known just use a little sand paper.
Tried that, but not happy with them.
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Old 09-10-2012, 04:35 PM   #3692
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Tried that, but not happy with them.
gotcha. well good luck on the hunt.
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Old 09-10-2012, 04:37 PM   #3693
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gotcha. well good luck on the hunt.
What made you retire the T3 2012 for a Hotbodies TCXX ??
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Old 09-10-2012, 04:47 PM   #3694
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What made you retire the T3 2012 for a Hotbodies TCXX ??
That idea is still being tossed around. I am going to setup both cars and see how they handle. If the better handling car is the 2012.....so be it. I couldn't get the car to do what I wanted to. I had spent more money than I want to admit trying different things and after 4 months of getting the car really good I got my rear end kicked by other makes. I want to try something else. I will still be rocking my X12's and I will be trying to get the remaining 2012 better until then. Even then I will be trying to get the 2012 better. But.....anyway you look at it the 13/T4 is around the corner.
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Old 09-11-2012, 04:55 AM   #3695
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Hi guys need some info I,ve got a t3 12 cant seem to get max throw on a right turn with savox servo and 4pk end point max out to 120% with 1.5 mm before touching c-hub,other side 97% Ive had two t3 12 and had a short break with other brand. can't rember having this problem before I don't think I had a savox servo in the t3 12 but that should not matter as the control sets end points its like the control ran out of end point adjustment????
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Old 09-11-2012, 06:35 AM   #3696
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Try a longer servo horn?
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Old 09-11-2012, 06:37 AM   #3697
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Hi guys need some info I,ve got a t3 12 cant seem to get max throw on a right turn with savox servo and 4pk end point max out to 120% with 1.5 mm before touching c-hub,other side 97% Ive had two t3 12 and had a short break with other brand. can't rember having this problem before I don't think I had a savox servo in the t3 12 but that should not matter as the control sets end points its like the control ran out of end point adjustment????
Put the servo saver in different positions... it will make a large difference in the throw from side to side.
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Old 09-11-2012, 09:50 AM   #3698
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It seems like this is comes up from time to time. I know is was talked about in the '11 thread a bit as well.

I followed the direction and example of others and had the servo horn mounted straight up and down with the servo trims and centered. I had to use sub trim to get it stright up and down due to the servo splines.

I then adjusted the endpoints to get to max mechanical throw and raced. Something always seemd a bit off. The car would behave a bit different one way than it did the other.

I started to look into this and found that while I had the same deflection in both directions (max throw), the end points in my radio were more than 30 points away from each other. I don't know a bunch about radios but if there is more throw one way than the other, that seems to me that the car would steer one way differently than the other.

I looked online and found a great techique to use to get your endpoints the same and even travel left to right. Since doing this, my cars drive much better. Basically, for me, the relationship of the draglink and the horn need to be 90 degrees, not the horn and the chasis. That way the arc that the horn travels is perfectly symetrical from left to right.

It is complecated but not too much so. PM me and I can send you the procedure I use.
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Old 09-11-2012, 09:53 AM   #3699
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Originally Posted by Mera'din View Post
It seems like this is comes up from time to time. I know is was talked about in the '11 thread a bit as well.

I followed the direction and example of others and had the servo horn mounted straight up and down with the servo trims and centered. I had to use sub trim to get it stright up and down due to the servo splines.

I then adjusted the endpoints to get to max mechanical throw and raced. Something always seemd a bit off. The car would behave a bit different one way than it did the other.

I started to look into this and found that while I had the same deflection in both directions (max throw), the end points in my radio were more than 30 points away from each other. I don't know a bunch about radios but if there is more throw one way than the other, that seems to me that the car would steer one way differently than the other.

I looked online and found a great techique to use to get your endpoints the same and even travel left to right. Since doing this, my cars drive much better. Basically, for me, the relationship of the draglink and the horn need to be 90 degrees, not the horn and the chasis. That way the arc that the horn travels is perfectly symetrical from left to right.

It is complecated but not too much so. PM me and I can send you the procedure I use.
That's what I ended up doing as well. I had about 60 ticks of subtrim to get the servo saver vertical per the manual, and then about a 30% difference between the L and R EPA's.

Then I tried mounting the servo saver 90* from the link, which means it tilts towards the center of the car, and I was able to take out the subtrim and the L and R EPA's are now only 2% apart.

I had to use a shorter turnbuckle to make it work.
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Old 09-11-2012, 10:05 AM   #3700
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mera'din View Post
It seems like this is comes up from time to time. I know is was talked about in the '11 thread a bit as well.

I followed the direction and example of others and had the servo horn mounted straight up and down with the servo trims and centered. I had to use sub trim to get it stright up and down due to the servo splines.

I then adjusted the endpoints to get to max mechanical throw and raced. Something always seemd a bit off. The car would behave a bit different one way than it did the other.

I started to look into this and found that while I had the same deflection in both directions (max throw), the end points in my radio were more than 30 points away from each other. I don't know a bunch about radios but if there is more throw one way than the other, that seems to me that the car would steer one way differently than the other.

I looked online and found a great techique to use to get your endpoints the same and even travel left to right. Since doing this, my cars drive much better. Basically, for me, the relationship of the draglink and the horn need to be 90 degrees, not the horn and the chasis. That way the arc that the horn travels is perfectly symetrical from left to right.

It is complecated but not too much so. PM me and I can send you the procedure I use.
Can you post the link to your procedure?
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Old 09-11-2012, 06:40 PM   #3701
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Here is what I do. After performing the procedure below my steering seemed much more connected and linear from right to left. I have used this on all of my cars and it helped each one. The procedure is tedious but worth it. Many people will tell you that just make the arm 90 degrees to the chassis, I politely disagree. Do this instead...

You just need to adjust the sub-trim and link length to make the end point values equal. If you have a higher endpoint value turning right shorten the link and adjust the sub-trim so the vehicle tracks straight. If you have a higher endpoint value turning left lengthen the link and re adjust subtrim so the vehicle tracks straight. It takes a little time to get right, but it all centers around having the proper angle between the servo saver arm and angle and length of the link connecting to the bellcrank.

You don't want the ball stud on the servo saver directly above the servo output. You need a 90 degree angle between the link and the servo output shaft/ballstud line. On rare occasions I have had to move the servo saver over a spline to get it to adjust without a crazy amount of sub trim. It is tedious but in the end, if done correctly you will have equal end points, the smallest possible sub trim, an angle close to 90 between the link and the output shaft/ball stud line, and even steering response right to left. Having a set of setup stands helps a ton.

Hope this helps! Express was the first to point me in this direction. All credit goes to him.
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Old 09-11-2012, 08:17 PM   #3702
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mera'din View Post
Here is what I do. After performing the procedure below my steering seemed much more connected and linear from right to left. I have used this on all of my cars and it helped each one. The procedure is tedious but worth it. Many people will tell you that just make the arm 90 degrees to the chassis, I politely disagree. Do this instead...

You just need to adjust the sub-trim and link length to make the end point values equal. If you have a higher endpoint value turning right shorten the link and adjust the sub-trim so the vehicle tracks straight. If you have a higher endpoint value turning left lengthen the link and re adjust subtrim so the vehicle tracks straight. It takes a little time to get right, but it all centers around having the proper angle between the servo saver arm and angle and length of the link connecting to the bellcrank.

You don't want the ball stud on the servo saver directly above the servo output. You need a 90 degree angle between the link and the servo output shaft/ballstud line. On rare occasions I have had to move the servo saver over a spline to get it to adjust without a crazy amount of sub trim. It is tedious but in the end, if done correctly you will have equal end points, the smallest possible sub trim, an angle close to 90 between the link and the output shaft/ball stud line, and even steering response right to left. Having a set of setup stands helps a ton.

Hope this helps! Express was the first to point me in this direction. All credit goes to him.
thanks Mera'din for the info as i have 20% difference between L and R on my radio. would it be okay if you could post a pic of the 90 degree angle between the link and the servo output shaft/ballstud line so that we get a visual reference?
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Old 09-11-2012, 08:53 PM   #3703
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mera'din View Post
Here is what I do. After performing the procedure below my steering seemed much more connected and linear from right to left. I have used this on all of my cars and it helped each one. The procedure is tedious but worth it. Many people will tell you that just make the arm 90 degrees to the chassis, I politely disagree. Do this instead...

You just need to adjust the sub-trim and link length to make the end point values equal. If you have a higher endpoint value turning right shorten the link and adjust the sub-trim so the vehicle tracks straight. If you have a higher endpoint value turning left lengthen the link and re adjust subtrim so the vehicle tracks straight. It takes a little time to get right, but it all centers around having the proper angle between the servo saver arm and angle and length of the link connecting to the bellcrank.

You don't want the ball stud on the servo saver directly above the servo output. You need a 90 degree angle between the link and the servo output shaft/ballstud line. On rare occasions I have had to move the servo saver over a spline to get it to adjust without a crazy amount of sub trim. It is tedious but in the end, if done correctly you will have equal end points, the smallest possible sub trim, an angle close to 90 between the link and the output shaft/ball stud line, and even steering response right to left. Having a set of setup stands helps a ton.

Hope this helps! Express was the first to point me in this direction. All credit goes to him.
Glad it worked for you.
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Old 09-12-2012, 01:39 AM   #3704
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mera'din View Post
Many people will tell you that just make the arm 90 degrees to the chassis, I politely disagree. Do this instead...

......You don't want the ball stud on the servo saver directly above the servo output. You need a 90 degree angle between the link and the servo output shaft/ballstud line. On rare occasions I have had to move the servo saver over a spline to get it to adjust without a crazy amount of sub trim. It is tedious but in the end, if done correctly you will have equal end points, the smallest possible sub trim, an angle close to 90 between the link and the output shaft/ball stud line, and even steering response right to left. Having a set of setup stands helps a ton.
The trouble with having the saver at 90deg to the link, not the chassis, is that when you turn left, the link will raise up as the ackermann plate moves to the right of the chassis. As you turn right the link will drop as the ackermann plate moves left.
If it's 90deg to the chassis, the link will level off in both directions as you approach full lock.
Although you might have similar end points, you could well find that the speed of the steering is different each way near the end of throw. This is the reason a vertical servo saver is recommended.

If you have to use a lot of subtrim to get the servo saver in either position, you need to change the position on the spline, or change the position of the spline adapter in the servo saver.
I kept moving mine around then trying it again, took about 10 changes of position, but eventually, I got the saver 1 click from vertical.

If you have to have a large difference in trims left to right when the saver is vertical there is another problem.
Check the links from the ackermann plate to the steering knuckles are the same length, if there is any difference, that will effect the throw each way.

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Old 09-12-2012, 07:41 AM   #3705
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The trouble with having the saver at 90deg to the link, not the chassis, is that when you turn left, the link will raise up as the ackermann plate moves to the right of the chassis. As you turn right the link will drop as the ackermann plate moves left.
If it's 90deg to the chassis, the link will level off in both directions as you approach full lock.
Although you might have similar end points, you could well find that the speed of the steering is different each way near the end of throw. This is the reason a vertical servo saver is recommended.

If you have to use a lot of subtrim to get the servo saver in either position, you need to change the position on the spline, or change the position of the spline adapter in the servo saver.
I kept moving mine around then trying it again, took about 10 changes of position, but eventually, I got the saver 1 click from vertical.

If you have to have a large difference in trims left to right when the saver is vertical there is another problem.
Check the links from the ackermann plate to the steering knuckles are the same length, if there is any difference, that will effect the throw each way.

Skiddins

As I said before, I get the pro and cons for each way of doing this, and if I didn't make that clear, here goes...

I am not intending to say which way is right or wrong, only that this is what worked for me.

In my head, the 90 degree to the chasis should work out. You use the subtrim to center the horn, and set endpoints for max throw left to right. This should work if and only if both endpoints have the same points of resolution left to right.

Looking at the endpoint values isn't enough and doesn't paint the entire picture of what is happening as the horn travels on it's arc. If your enpoints are -36L and 84R you would think HOLY CRAP my car drives crazy. But if I then added that the subtrim is at 24, you would realize that there are still 60 steps of resolution left to right.

This makes sense in my head and it should work out on the car when setup with a 90 degree relationship to the chasis. If you had -36L and 84R with a subtrim that didn't give you equal steps left to right I would be concerned.

This was where my car was at. I didn't and the car drove...funny and unpredicatable. I followed the steps above and the car drives true..for me. Others may disagree. Try it if you are having difficulty. if your car is dialed, then don't mess with it!
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