R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 08-15-2012, 06:22 PM   #3496
Tech Elite
 
artwork's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Thornton, CO
Posts: 3,059
Trader Rating: 56 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RCknight View Post
As a rule of thumb, I always though a car that flexes more will feel lazy? Are people racing on carpet? My car always felt lazy without using the center chassis post behind the steering.
A car that flexes more will roll deeper through corners. Sometimes that makes the car feel lazy because the car is slow to react back to center. The thinner chassis and top deck in my opinion tends to be better in the faster classes, but in the slower classes the thick chassis and top deck tend to be a little faster for me. That is because the car needs less traction and tends to carry lot more corner speed. The X-ray generates speed in a very different way then other chassis I have run (which is a lot of them). The X-ray naturally rolls more then most of the other chassis on the market and as such tends to feel a bit more stuck then other cars. The key in my testing is not just finding the right setup, but also the right chassis combination to meet the speed of the class and your driving style. Getting around the track is the easy part...but going fast is the challenge. People will tell you that the X-ray is the greatest car on the market and to a certain degree I agree, but it is a lot harder to make it faster then other top level cars. But when you do find the right combination, on the right surface, at the right level of grip it is a hard car to beat.

Some cars can be faster the easier you drive them and others are faster the harder you drive them. I tend to feel like I have to be very aggressive with the X-ray to turn faster laps, but it is easier to do them. Other cars do not require such an aggressive driving style to make them fast. It is just different!

Sorry for the tangent, I find that the thinner chassis and top deck produces too much traction and as such makes the car feel stuck in he mud in the slower classes on carpet. I have to make crazy setup changes to make the car fast which makes the car harder to drive to go faster. This may work for Alex or Paul, but does not work for me. I look for a car that rotates naturally and does not have to be whipped around corners. I tend to whip the X-ray more then I would like...but I am able to go fast with it in this way.
__________________
Xray | Hudy | Sanwa | R1 Wurks | Avid | Protoform | Proline | 2mm Designs
artwork is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2012, 06:30 PM   #3497
Tech Fanatic
 
elee32's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: lambertville, nj
Posts: 785
Trader Rating: 18 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kinga View Post
Kit top deck
6mm front 5mm rear droop ORH
350 cst oil
1.5mm spacer under front outer camber link, inner camber link no spacers in the outer bulkhead
kit front swaybar, 1.1 mm rear sway bar
2mm bump steer spacers
spool front diff
kit lower pin roll center holders(middle dot)
seems like a lot of droop, unless I am understanding it wrong. I usually run 1.5 to 2.5 mm ORH. The lazy feeling could be from this (I think, but I am rarely correct)
__________________
Eric Lee, sponsored by shipping and handling..
elee32 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2012, 07:07 PM   #3498
Tech Elite
 
RCknight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,270
Trader Rating: 5 (100%+)
Default

double post deleted

Last edited by RCknight; 08-15-2012 at 07:20 PM.
RCknight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2012, 07:19 PM   #3499
Tech Elite
 
RCknight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,270
Trader Rating: 5 (100%+)
Default

Yes thank you for that well explained post. This would explain why I'm always looking to stiffen up my car in VTA. That is why I posted earlier my concern as most of the cars seem to be developed more for asphalt racing these days. I understand why, but I just hope Xray dev team will give us some chassis stiffening options. Maybe a 417 would better suite me, but I love Xray quality and precision too much. I've just been waiting for the design options I want.

Quote:
Originally Posted by artwork View Post
A car that flexes more will roll deeper through corners. Sometimes that makes the car feel lazy because the car is slow to react back to center. The thinner chassis and top deck in my opinion tends to be better in the faster classes, but in the slower classes the thick chassis and top deck tend to be a little faster for me. That is because the car needs less traction and tends to carry lot more corner speed. The X-ray generates speed in a very different way then other chassis I have run (which is a lot of them). The X-ray naturally rolls more then most of the other chassis on the market and as such tends to feel a bit more stuck then other cars. The key in my testing is not just finding the right setup, but also the right chassis combination to meet the speed of the class and your driving style. Getting around the track is the easy part...but going fast is the challenge. People will tell you that the X-ray is the greatest car on the market and to a certain degree I agree, but it is a lot harder to make it faster then other top level cars. But when you do find the right combination, on the right surface, at the right level of grip it is a hard car to beat.

Some cars can be faster the easier you drive them and others are faster the harder you drive them. I tend to feel like I have to be very aggressive with the X-ray to turn faster laps, but it is easier to do them. Other cars do not require such an aggressive driving style to make them fast. It is just different!

Sorry for the tangent, I find that the thinner chassis and top deck produces too much traction and as such makes the car feel stuck in he mud in the slower classes on carpet. I have to make crazy setup changes to make the car fast which makes the car harder to drive to go faster. This may work for Alex or Paul, but does not work for me. I look for a car that rotates naturally and does not have to be whipped around corners. I tend to whip the X-ray more then I would like...but I am able to go fast with it in this way.
RCknight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2012, 08:36 PM   #3500
Tech Elite
 
bvoltz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Bedtime with Teddi
Posts: 3,635
Trader Rating: 44 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skiddins View Post
Springs control 'how much' and oil controls 'how fast'

Thicker front oil and/or stiffer front spring will improve the steering reaction when entering a corner but will compromise mid corner etc.

What surface/tyres are you using?
It might be easier for us to post a setup that we might use in the same circumtances, especially as we don't know what you're using now.

Skiddins
Spec Tire - Solaris - S-TSHGM3W HARD GR (Medium)
Asphalt - Treated with VHT

Just trying to understand....
__________________
Wheeling an Xray T4 and T4 14 using a Ko Propo, powered by EA motors and Speed Passion Speedo, paid for by my wife.

Digi3Dworks - 3D printing for the medical Field.
bvoltz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2012, 08:47 PM   #3501
Tech Addict
 
kinga's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 594
Trader Rating: 15 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by elee32 View Post
seems like a lot of droop, unless I am understanding it wrong. I usually run 1.5 to 2.5 mm ORH. The lazy feeling could be from this (I think, but I am rarely correct)
On outdoor bumpy asphalt 5mm droop is the minimum I can run. Most people at the club run between 3-6 mm of droop ORH.
kinga is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2012, 03:05 AM   #3502
Tech Elite
 
Skiddins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Windsor, UK
Posts: 4,580
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bvoltz View Post
Spec Tire - Solaris - S-TSHGM3W HARD GR (Medium)
Asphalt - Treated with VHT

Just trying to understand....
When I run stiffer rear springs I get better steering and possibly rear grip, but that really depends on how much grip there is already, remember you have to get the balance between the front and rear.

I have gone faster since dropping my shock oil to 400cSt all round with 3hole 1.1mm pistons (alloy shocks).
On asphalt I use HPI silver springs front and rear. They're slightly softer than the kit 2.8's
__________________
Xray T4'17, T4'14 (Wet Car)
Xray X12 2017
Xray X1'16
wlrc.co.uk (West London Racing Centre)
RCDisco.co.uk
Skiddins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2012, 06:21 AM   #3503
Tech Elite
 
M-Technic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Palm Beach, FL
Posts: 2,562
Trader Rating: 15 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bvoltz View Post
What will a heavier shock oil do? This is the one part the of setup I just can not seem to get into my head... Springs and Oil .....
Heavier springs and oil can help, as well as standing the shocks up (closer to vertical). It really depends on the traction and the type of corners at your track.
__________________
RCAmerica | Xray | Hudy | Radiopost | Speed Passion USA | Trinity | P3 Graphics
M-Technic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2012, 06:41 AM   #3504
Tech Master
 
pcar951's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Cow Town
Posts: 1,684
Trader Rating: 19 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skiddins View Post
Springs control 'how much' and oil controls 'how fast'


Skiddins
Well said...that sums it up nicely.
__________________
Jim Chapman
PM Hobbycraft | RCAmerica | Xray | Hudy | Reds Racing
pcar951 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2012, 06:57 AM   #3505
Tech Elite
 
bvoltz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Bedtime with Teddi
Posts: 3,635
Trader Rating: 44 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skiddins View Post
When I run stiffer rear springs I get better steering and possibly rear grip, but that really depends on how much grip there is already, remember you have to get the balance between the front and rear.

I have gone faster since dropping my shock oil to 400cSt all round with 3hole 1.1mm pistons (alloy shocks).
On asphalt I use HPI silver springs front and rear. They're slightly softer than the kit 2.8's
I'm on 400 oil with 3 hole all the way around. 2.4 rear and 2.6 front..

I think I have some things to try. Many thanks and the understanding of springs is VERY helpful for my mind...
__________________
Wheeling an Xray T4 and T4 14 using a Ko Propo, powered by EA motors and Speed Passion Speedo, paid for by my wife.

Digi3Dworks - 3D printing for the medical Field.
bvoltz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2012, 07:07 AM   #3506
Tech Elite
 
M-Technic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Palm Beach, FL
Posts: 2,562
Trader Rating: 15 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bvoltz View Post
I'm on 400 oil with 3 hole all the way around. 2.4 rear and 2.6 front..

I think I have some things to try. Many thanks and the understanding of springs is VERY helpful for my mind...
That is a VERY soft setup. I take it you run on low traction asphalt?
__________________
RCAmerica | Xray | Hudy | Radiopost | Speed Passion USA | Trinity | P3 Graphics
M-Technic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2012, 07:21 AM   #3507
Tech Elite
 
bvoltz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Bedtime with Teddi
Posts: 3,635
Trader Rating: 44 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by M-Technic View Post
That is a VERY soft setup. I take it you run on low traction asphalt?
The track is sprayed with VHT.. So I would say not really....
__________________
Wheeling an Xray T4 and T4 14 using a Ko Propo, powered by EA motors and Speed Passion Speedo, paid for by my wife.

Digi3Dworks - 3D printing for the medical Field.
bvoltz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2012, 07:29 AM   #3508
Tech Elite
 
bvoltz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Bedtime with Teddi
Posts: 3,635
Trader Rating: 44 (100%+)
Default

So let me ask, what would be the results of the following:

Droop 1mm over ride height (ORH)

Droop 2mm ORH?
__________________
Wheeling an Xray T4 and T4 14 using a Ko Propo, powered by EA motors and Speed Passion Speedo, paid for by my wife.

Digi3Dworks - 3D printing for the medical Field.
bvoltz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2012, 07:42 AM   #3509
Tech Elite
 
M-Technic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Palm Beach, FL
Posts: 2,562
Trader Rating: 15 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bvoltz View Post
The track is sprayed with VHT.. So I would say not really....
Then what made you go with such a soft spring setup? I don't think you've posted what class you are running by the way, that could be helpful.
__________________
RCAmerica | Xray | Hudy | Radiopost | Speed Passion USA | Trinity | P3 Graphics
M-Technic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2012, 07:51 AM   #3510
Tech Elite
 
bvoltz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Bedtime with Teddi
Posts: 3,635
Trader Rating: 44 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by M-Technic View Post
Then what made you go with such a soft spring setup? I don't think you've posted what class you are running by the way, that could be helpful.
Sorry 17.5... So it is time to step up the springs... Until we had VHT the traction was low.
__________________
Wheeling an Xray T4 and T4 14 using a Ko Propo, powered by EA motors and Speed Passion Speedo, paid for by my wife.

Digi3Dworks - 3D printing for the medical Field.
bvoltz is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Xray T3 2011 entitymugenmtx Electric On-Road 4150 05-19-2014 12:53 PM
Xray T3 2011 New in Box olhipster1 R/C Items: For Sale/Trade 19 08-04-2011 05:27 AM
XRAY T3 2012 bila nk keluar? bravolous Malaysian R/C Racers 8 06-16-2011 11:58 PM
Xray T3 nitro rat Australia For Sale/Trade 22 09-19-2010 03:11 PM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 03:26 AM.


Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net