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Old 08-06-2012, 09:19 PM   #3406
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Originally Posted by ChampRC View Post
I know this issue has been beaten to a pulp, but I'm getting frustrated and out of solutions...

I've switched right components with left components including rear hubs, arms, suspension holders, 1.50mm washers, switched entire suspension, switched what hudy device used, wheel hexes, I even bought the one piece front rear suspension holder....everything I tried end up with 2 degrees toe on the left and the right will vary from 3.1 to 4 degrees. I've taken everything apart and rebuilt/rescrewed....

Whenever I use a washer on the left to compensate, the right just increases. I put in a washer almost double the size apprx 3mm on the left and finally got 3 degrees, but then the right was at 4 degrees.

I spent half a grand on this car and this issue is making me really question my decision.
In my past experience I notice a great difference in driving with even rear toe than uneven...so I'm not just OCD, this thing drives like garbage with the toe being 1 degree different and I'm not that good of a driver to drive it like this....

I'm not going to claim to be an expert but I'm going to assume you've been through the car 500 times and examined the user manual until you're cross-eyed, so lets not do that again just yet.

Does the top deck fit without having to force it? That could be an indicator of a seriously bent bulkhead, but I'm guessing you've checked that already.

Have you tried measuring the locations of the holes in the chassis plate? If one of the mounting holes were out of place it would move the bulkhead and could produce some strange suspension geometry. Its a longshot, but who knows?

If all else fails - can you post some pictures? Everyone here is just guessing, me included. If you can post a few pics someone might see something out of whack.
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Old 08-07-2012, 12:37 AM   #3407
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Is the issue perhaps the method/tool you are using to measure toe and not the car?
Thats a good shout

If its a set up station, try flipping the gauge over, see if thats the problem.

I use the old fashion way with a steel rule.

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Old 08-07-2012, 01:18 AM   #3408
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Has anyone anodized the aluminum pieces on their t3? Any reason I shouldn't?
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Old 08-07-2012, 06:21 AM   #3409
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The difference in the rear toe in on the rear is common with the design, I have had it wth all of my xray cars, just adjust the amount of shims. 1.75 mm shims on the left suspension mount, 1.5 on the right usually does it. I dont even check it without these shim settings now as I know it will be out.
I have also found the more shims you add to the left to get more toe in you increase the to in on the other side for some reason. You need to make small incremental changes to get it right
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Old 08-07-2012, 07:23 AM   #3410
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I have also found the more shims you add to the left to get more toe in you increase the to in on the other side for some reason. You need to make small incremental changes to get it right
I can't figure out how this is happening. I'm almost certain its the way you're measuring toe - relative to each other - rather than an absolute change in toe on the opposite side relative to the chassis
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Old 08-07-2012, 07:37 AM   #3411
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Originally Posted by ChampRC View Post
I know this issue has been beaten to a pulp, but I'm getting frustrated and out of solutions...

I've switched right components with left components including rear hubs, arms, suspension holders, 1.50mm washers, switched entire suspension, switched what hudy device used, wheel hexes, I even bought the one piece front rear suspension holder....everything I tried end up with 2 degrees toe on the left and the right will vary from 3.1 to 4 degrees. I've taken everything apart and rebuilt/rescrewed....

Whenever I use a washer on the left to compensate, the right just increases. I put in a washer almost double the size apprx 3mm on the left and finally got 3 degrees, but then the right was at 4 degrees.

I spent half a grand on this car and this issue is making me really question my decision.
In my past experience I notice a great difference in driving with even rear toe than uneven...so I'm not just OCD, this thing drives like garbage with the toe being 1 degree different and I'm not that good of a driver to drive it like this....

I had this issue also, I finally figured it out. I found that I had my roll center pin holders were mounted in the wrong direction on one side of my car. Make sure you have the flat side of the roll center blocks up against the aluminum mount blocks.

Hope this helps.
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Old 08-07-2012, 11:27 AM   #3412
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Same thing happ to me just now while I had service / rebuilt the entire car.

Left side, need 1.75mm shims while 1.5mm on the right to get 3deg on both sides. However right side is slightly more than 3deg but I figure it's not that much difference, it Shud be fine.

Sometimes bent hinge pin wud give these type of readings.
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Old 08-07-2012, 06:25 PM   #3413
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I'm using RSD bladdders, no foam, 1.1 mm 3 hole, hole in cap, 450/600 2.6/3.0
What's in your rear diff?
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Old 08-07-2012, 06:55 PM   #3414
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im a little confused about the whole ackerman setting changes. I know that the ackerman is the angle of the inside and outside wheels and that changes slip angle and all that. What does adding ackerman shims or using longer steering links or having more shims on the steering knuckle putting the steering link closer to the ground actually do?
what would you be seeking when making a change to the ackerman, and what scenario would you be changing ackerman or shimming things in?
i realise that it changes the angles of the wheels and i have researched it but I'm still struggling to understand so i thought i would ask here for a more practical explanation.
Thanks
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Old 08-07-2012, 08:24 PM   #3415
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Originally Posted by narcotiks View Post
im a little confused about the whole ackerman setting changes. I know that the ackerman is the angle of the inside and outside wheels and that changes slip angle and all that. What does adding ackerman shims or using longer steering links or having more shims on the steering knuckle putting the steering link closer to the ground actually do?
what would you be seeking when making a change to the ackerman, and what scenario would you be changing ackerman or shimming things in?
i realise that it changes the angles of the wheels and i have researched it but I'm still struggling to understand so i thought i would ask here for a more practical explanation.
Thanks
There are 2 variables here, ackerman and bumpsteer. Adding shims at the knuckle to change the link angle only changes bumpsteer, a 1mm change here can provide a decent change in steering, so you should try it. It feels to me that adding more shims makes the car more aggressive on turn in.

With the '12 rack there is no length change available, you can use the forward holes in the steering knuckles, but I don't know anyone using that setting. You are left with the shims on the rack pushing the links forward or back (always remember to change this in line with your wheelbase shims). Changing the ackerman this way has varied effects on different parts of the corner depending on grip available, usually people run 1 or 2mm shims.
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Old 08-07-2012, 08:35 PM   #3416
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Originally Posted by MikeXray View Post
There are 2 variables here, ackerman and bumpsteer. Adding shims at the knuckle to change the link angle only changes bumpsteer, a 1mm change here can provide a decent change in steering, so you should try it. It feels to me that adding more shims makes the car more aggressive on turn in.

With the '12 rack there is no length change available, you can use the forward holes in the steering knuckles, but I don't know anyone using that setting. You are left with the shims on the rack pushing the links forward or back (always remember to change this in line with your wheelbase shims). Changing the ackerman this way has varied effects on different parts of the corner depending on grip available, usually people run 1 or 2mm shims.
I think there is 2mm of shims on the knuckle, should i try another 1mm shim?

So if i extend the wheel base, i add more more shims on the rack to let the link extend far enough to function properly? there are 1mm shims on the rack now, ill try another 1mm on both holes and see what effect it has on cornering and if i like it or not.

On a slightly related note, I've got the progressive springs (2.2-2.6) and have put them on all fours, the car feels less responsive and kinda feels to have less steering compared to 2.6 at the back and 3.0 at the front. It doesn't feel worse, just different. Would changing to a 2.6 or a 2.8 at the front and leaving the progressives at the back make a better combination? Or adding more knuckle shims with the progressive springs all round?
and thanks for your help and fast reply
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Old 08-07-2012, 08:56 PM   #3417
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Originally Posted by narcotiks View Post
I think there is 2mm of shims on the knuckle, should i try another 1mm shim?

So if i extend the wheel base, i add more more shims on the rack to let the link extend far enough to function properly? there are 1mm shims on the rack now, ill try another 1mm on both holes and see what effect it has on cornering and if i like it or not.

On a slightly related note, I've got the progressive springs (2.2-2.6) and have put them on all fours, the car feels less responsive and kinda feels to have less steering compared to 2.6 at the back and 3.0 at the front. It doesn't feel worse, just different. Would changing to a 2.6 or a 2.8 at the front and leaving the progressives at the back make a better combination? Or adding more knuckle shims with the progressive springs all round?
and thanks for your help and fast reply
Yes I would try and extra 1mm on both, but one at a time.

Those progressive springs are strange, I didn't like them in the front at all, on asphalt they are ok on the rear, but I need more time with them.
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Old 08-07-2012, 09:14 PM   #3418
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Yes I would try and extra 1mm on both, but one at a time.

Those progressive springs are strange, I didn't like them in the front at all, on asphalt they are ok on the rear, but I need more time with them.
Okay ill give it a shot thanks.

They do feel a bit strange. In theory they sound awesome but they didn't perform as well as expected.
Ill run them just on the rear and see how they go(asphault). Did you make any changes to your setup while using them that made them perform better?
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Old 08-07-2012, 09:53 PM   #3419
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Originally Posted by B00t13g View Post
What's in your rear diff?
700 cSt

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Yes I would try and extra 1mm on both, but one at a time.

Those progressive springs are strange, I didn't like them in the front at all, on asphalt they are ok on the rear, but I need more time with them.
\I felt the same. They were so-so on the rear, but I didn't like them in front. Over all I liked a 2.6/3.0 or a 2.6/2.8 better.
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Old 08-07-2012, 10:15 PM   #3420
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700 cSt


\I felt the same. They were so-so on the rear, but I didn't like them in front. Over all I liked a 2.6/3.0 or a 2.6/2.8 better.
Thanks man.
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